is it legal for the DMV to not accept money?

[mrjminer]

So the DMV is part of the Federal Government?

State governments are not more individualized components of the federal government and also have their own state currency to substitute for national currency? Try again?!??!???? 😕

 

[geno]

State governments are not more individualized components of the federal government and also have their own state currency to substitute for national currency? Try again?!??!???? 😕

Aw, that wasn't nearly as long-winded or insulting as your last post. I am disappoint. Long story short, the DMV is not obligated to accept cash, they are, however required to accept US dollars as a form of currency, the obligation ends there, though.

However, no federal law mandates that a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as payment for goods or services not yet provided. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills.

....

United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes
and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are
legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign
gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.

If you want to argue that voluntarily registering a car with the DMV is a debt, be my guest. Also, at the time of payment, the services being offered are not yet provided. You are paying up front and at-will, so this is not to be confused with the guidelines in place for debts or services already rendered.

Some more info : How can government offices refuse cash?

 

[mrjminer]

Aw, that wasn't nearly as long-winded or insulting as your last post. I am disappoint. Long story short, the DMV is not obligated to accept cash, they are, however required to accept US dollars as a form of currency, the obligation ends there, though.



If you want to argue that voluntarily registering a car with the DMV is a debt, be my guest. Also, at the time of payment, the services being offered are not yet provided. You are paying up front and at-will, so this is not to be confused with the guidelines in place for debts or services already rendered.

You are being forced by the government to incur the debt because it is illegal not to register your car, then they refuse to accept their currency for it. Sure, you can decide not to pay the debt, then be thrown into jail for not registering your vehicle.

Do you really think this DMV not accepting cash would hold up in a court?

Just a simple yes or no, I'm done after that because I think we're at an impasse. As for me: no.

 

[Golgatha]

You are being forced by the government to incur the debt because it is illegal not to register your car, then they refuse to accept their currency for it. Sure, you can decide not to pay the debt, then be thrown into jail for not registering your vehicle.

Do you really think this DMV not accepting cash would hold up in a court?

Just a simple yes or no, I'm done after that because I think we're at an impasse. As for me: no.

Actually it is perfectly legal not to register and license your car. It is illegal to drive said car on the government's roadways unregistered or uninsured however.

 

[Fritzo]

That raises the question, what does one without a checking account do?

You'd be suprised how many people don't have one. It's amazing. We get 40+ year olds in our office all the time "Do you take cash?"

Those same people are the ones that are late and go delinquent every month.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Since I don't use banks, that would pose a problem. I'd have to just skip being licensed I guess. If the state has a problem with it, they can adjust their policies.

Obviously I'd write some letters, make some calls...etc...try to work something out. But in the end, you take cash or you don't get my business.

 

[mwtgg]

Since I don't use banks, that would pose a problem. I'd have to just skip being licensed I guess. If the state has a problem with it, they can adjust their policies.

Obviously I'd write some letters, make some calls...etc...try to work something out. But in the end, you take cash or you don't get my business.

Or you could go to the post office for a money order.

 

[mfenn]

Or you could go to the post office for a money order.

Dammit you just beat me!

I came in here to post that many places that don't take cash will take USPS money orders in lieu of a check. You can buy a money order with cash. Of course, that requires you to know the exact fee ahead of time and is generally a PITA.

 

[Lifted]

Or you could go to the post office for a money order.

Or he could get a credit card.

Or he could get a prepaid visa/mastercard.

Or he could open a checking account.

I think you missed the point of this thread.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I was reading a dollar the other day and it said "this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private". But then I was at the DMV and they refused to take anything except checks. Is that legal?

Sounds full of crap!!
In fact I would go out on the limb to say you are making this up....

which state?

 

[mwtgg]

Or he could get a credit card.

Or he could get a prepaid visa/mastercard.

Or he could open a checking account.

I think you missed the point of this thread.

Or you could read what PrinceofWands wrote. HE DOESN'T USE BANKS.

 

[mwtgg]

Sounds full of crap!!
In fact I would go out on the limb to say you are making this up....

which state?

Pennsylvania, dumbass.

 

[mugs]

Or you could go to the post office for a money order.

Can you believe PoW claims to be a genius? 😀

Kind of makes you wonder how he has never encountered a situation where he can't use cash... (for something he could not do without)

 

[InverseOfNeo]

"no cash" or "no pennis"

:shocked;

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Yes, it is completely legal.

http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq/currency/legal-tender.shtml

Quite ironic, but legal.

Thread should have ended here.

I have no idea wtf is so vague about this. No they are not required to accept cash. The question also covers governmental agencies, so I would assume that they are not required to accept cash.

 

[Slacker]

How much did you owe? maybe write them like 75 checks for $1.00 each...

 

[Perknose]

I'm pretty confident you could win a court case forcing them to take money.

And you'd be wrong. The relevant statute has already been posted right in this thread. You should read it.

OP, now I remember you. You live in the lovely and verdant Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, as do I. You were mugged delivering pizzas in Chester. Silly boy. Even though you were on the good (Widener) side of I-95, where some signs of life still exist, THAT was a fool's errand.

I grew up 10 minutes away from Chester, and swam for the Chester YMCA in the winter, at a time when a few white people still ventured within. That YMCA lies vacant now. Chester on the river side of I-95 lies mostly vacant now, too.

Did I tell you about the time my HS basketball team needed a police escort in to play the Chester Clippers? Hahahahahaha, good times!

Anyway, the DMV employees in our lovely and verdant Commonwealth had a nasty and nearly unbreakable habit of pocketing cash from people, so they had to institute the no cash law.

And, yeah, it's legal.

 

[mrjminer]

And you'd be wrong. The relevant statute has already been posted right in this thread. You should read it.
...
And, yeah, it's legal.

The statute on the U.S. treasury website with stating private entities are able to choose whether they want to accept U.S. currency (unless state law permits otherwise) proves I'm wrong?

Maybe this part shows I'm wrong? "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

Additionally the question in the FAQ reads: "Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment..." --- guess what specific item the answer to the FAQ conveniently manages to not directly state, while reinforcing that private businesses may choose to accept the currency (again, state law permitting)? (HINT: it's the text italicized above) Does that prove I'm wrong?

Just because the DMV chooses not to accept U.S. currency does not make their decision legal. Like I said:

I'm pretty confident you could win a court case forcing them to take money.

 

[Perknose]

The statute on the U.S. treasury website with stating private entities are able to choose whether they want to accept U.S. currency (unless state law permits otherwise) proves I'm wrong?

Maybe this part shows I'm wrong? "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

Additionally the question in the FAQ reads: "Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment..." --- guess what specific item the answer to the FAQ conveniently manages to not directly state, while reinforcing that private businesses may choose to accept the currency (again, state law permitting)? (HINT: it's the text italicized above) Does that prove I'm wrong?

Just because the DMV chooses not to accept U.S. currency does not make their decision legal. Like I said:

You really need to develop a deeper level of reading comprehension, because it is ALL there, just not spelled out clearly enough for you.

Here is the entire question and answer, from the US Treasury. See if you can spot where you didn't fully get it:

I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

Do you really think the Penndot (Pa DMV) could have had this as its unchallenged official policy FOR DECADES if it were illegal?

Apparently, you do. 😱

Let me put it this way: You are wrong.

Hint #1: The DMV is NOT a creditor.

Hint #2: Do you believe, even in your laxest moment of misapprehension, that the US treasury would fail to specifically state in its answer that governmental agencies CAN'T "only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment" if they indeed couldn't, legally?

Well, do you?

 

[mrjminer]

You really need to develop a deeper level of reading comprehension, because it is ALL there, just not spelled out clearly enough for you.

Here is the entire question and answer, from the US Treasury. See if you can spot where you didn't fully get it:

Do you really think the Penndot (Pa DMV) could have had this as its unchallenged official policy FOR DECADES if it were illegal?

Apparently, you do. 😱

Let me put it this way: You are wrong.

Hint #1: The DMV is NOT a creditor.

Hint #2: Do you believe, even in your laxest moment of misapprehension, that the US treasury would fail to specifically state in its answer that governmental agencies CAN'T "only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment" if they indeed couldn't, legally?

Well, do you?

Everything on their website has pointed to private entities/businesses/organizations being able to make the decision based on whether or not it is permitted by state law.

I'm sorry that you're mistaken and that the information on the U.S. treasury is their INTERPRETATION (as determinable when the answer is prefaced with "This means") of a statute, and an incorrect interpretation, at that; the text of the statute they present clearly states: public charges, taxes, and dues. If the interpretation of whatever fools at the treasury office wrote the FAQ were true, why would the statute include public charges and taxes -- neither of which a private entity can possibly impose -- and, therefore, would be completely aloof under their interpretation of this as meaning a creditor, since the government is not a creditor and is the only entity that can impose public charges and taxes?

As I said before, their "interpretation" specifically disregards that this means in relation to government -- leaving us only with a legal statute from which we can base a more substantial interpretation... and are left with no choice other than to conclude that a government office is unable to deny usage of U.S. currency for things like... public charges, taxes, and dues.

So, yes, you're damn right I think "the Penndot (Pa DMV) could have had this as its unchallenged official policy FOR DECADES if it were illegal?" Then again, I also use my brain and don't merely make presumptions based on evidence like... "oh gee... they wouldn't do it for all of these years if it were illegal!!!!"

I'm pretty sure you're the one who needs to improve their reading comprehension.

Anyways, until you want to present some new evidence/information that is actually a counterargument to my statement and may actually help everyone come to the correct answer (since you clearly feel the only logical answer available with the evidence we currently have is not the answer you think we should arrive at), feel free to: stop spreading your flawed logic, stop wasting my time, and exit the thread.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Pennsylvania, dumbass.

If you are coming to our Riverfront Office Center location in Harrisburg, cash, check and money orders are the only acceptable forms of payment. Please make checks or money orders payable to PennDOT.

You spoke too soon dumb ass

 

[JEDIYoda]

In California and most states --
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/faq/genfaq.htm

Note: All DMV offices accept payment by cash, check, and money order and ATM/Debit cards for payment of fees. Credit cards are not accepted in any DMV office.

 

[Perknose]

Everything on their website has pointed to private entities/businesses/organizations being able to make the decision based on whether or not it is permitted by state law.

I'm sorry that you're mistaken and that the information on the U.S. treasury is their INTERPRETATION (as determinable when the answer is prefaced with "This means") of a statute, and an incorrect interpretation, at that; the text of the statute they present clearly states: public charges, taxes, and dues. If the interpretation of whatever fools at the treasury office wrote the FAQ were true, why would the statute include public charges and taxes -- neither of which a private entity can possibly impose -- and, therefore, would be completely aloof under their interpretation of this as meaning a creditor, since the government is not a creditor and is the only entity that can impose public charges and taxes?

As I said before, their "interpretation" specifically disregards that this means in relation to government -- leaving us only with a legal statute from which we can base a more substantial interpretation... and are left with no choice other than to conclude that a government office is unable to deny usage of U.S. currency for things like... public charges, taxes, and dues.

So, yes, you're damn right I think "the Penndot (Pa DMV) could have had this as its unchallenged official policy FOR DECADES if it were illegal?" Then again, I also use my brain and don't merely make presumptions based on evidence like... "oh gee... they wouldn't do it for all of these years if it were illegal!!!!"

I'm pretty sure you're the one who needs to improve their reading comprehension.

Anyways, until you want to present some new evidence/information that is actually a counterargument to my statement and may actually help everyone come to the correct answer (since you clearly feel the only logical answer available with the evidence we currently have is not the answer you think we should arrive at), feel free to: stop spreading your flawed logic, stop wasting my time, and exit the thread.

The denseness, stupidity and just plain wrongness in your post is legion.

I'll content myself with this:

and, therefore, would be completely aloof under their

English, Leroy. Learn it. Use it.

However, you're stupid and pig-headed enough that I believe I can corral your bellicose lame ass into a bet.

$100 up to $1,000, held by paypal by a mutually agreed upon third party.

The longstanding decision of Penndot (Pa. DMV) NOT to accept cash in payment is completely legal under federal and Pa. state law.

I say it is. You say it isn't.

I'm right. You're wrong.

Put up publicly or crawl away in shame.

Yes or no, champ? 🙂

 

[SampSon]

I can't believe the amount of effort you people put into arguing semantics.
Post after post after post of quoting treasury, federal and state laws, arguments back and forth (almost completely by laymen) and really everyone ignores the most valid point....

Each individual provider of service can set the rules for what compensation they accept, within reason, for their services.

Any argument beyond that is semantics. End of story.

 

[Perknose]

Each individual provider of service can set the rules for what compensation they accept, within reason, for their services.

Shhhhhh. I'm busy trying to take the truculent 'tard's money here. ()🙂