Is it just me? Subaru BRZ = Enthusiast's dream car

[soccerballtux]

Agreed, but thats not always the case. Look at the Z. You can get the 'Nismo' with a lot of cool extra additions and some unique body updates, but the power is 95% the same. That costs almost 8k.

Mazda did this with the RX-8 as well. The cost between the base model and touring was almost 10k. No real performance difference there as well.

It would not suprise me to see a 'STi' version at 32-33k with no appreciable performance difference. Just added handling amenities and looks upgrades. Could be ok for the 5% who want to add these to the base anyway, but essentially just an extra 30% more money for 5% extra performance.

why do they do this if it bores everyone?

 

[manimal]

why do they do this if it bores everyone?

Because Johnnie I wanna be a racer has no clue. marketing trumps performance

 

[foghorn67]

Another full review...
http://www.insideline.com/subaru/brz/2013/2013-subaru-brz-full-test-and-video.html

 

[Imported]

Saw the BRZ in person on the freeway today in blue. Looked pretty amazing!

 

[Kroze]

Okay Scion have the price for the FR-S on their web site at $24,930.

If the Subaru version cost $25k and comes standard with auto climate control, HID headlight, and touch screen GPS navigation, Scion is not going to sell any. That is unless they strategically delay the sale of the BRZ and let scion takes the market first couple of months.

 

[Kroze]

I guess Subaru is going to price the brz at arOund $25,950. Just right below the wrx and above the scion frs to justify the added standard equipments.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

I guess Subaru is going to price the brz at arOund $25,950. Just right below the wrx and above the scion frs to justify the added standard equipments.

If the BRZ is 25,950 it's about 400 above the WRX MSRP. WRX is 25,595. But it's pretty close though demand will drive it up.

 

[alkemyst]

If the BRZ is 25,950 it's about 400 above the WRX MSRP. WRX is 25,595. But it's pretty close though demand will drive it up.

you may want to recheck those numbers, however Subaru is already in the planning stages of a WRX BRZ should demand take over.

everyone should know this.

 

[alkemyst]

why do they do this if it bores everyone?

Only bores those that couldn't afford them.

It's exclusivity. At the upper end of the car world, it's in the millions of dollars just to guarantee you are the only one in that ride.

The tickle down effect can probably be measured in 10's of dollars buy the guy showing up in his 1970 Comet only to be shown up by the guy in the 1970 Maverick Grabber.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

you may want to recheck those numbers, however Subaru is already in the planning stages of a WRX BRZ should demand take over.

everyone should know this.

On the subaru website the WRX is going for 25,595 MSRP. IF the BRZ is going for 25,950 as Kroze mentioned then it would be more expensive.

As for WRX/STi versions of the BRZ who knows. Would be pretty awesome if they did though but I would say there'd only be a STi version.

 

[Sid59]

Autoblog First Drive is up: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/26/2013-subaru-brz-first-drive-review-video/

Some quotes:

Long story short – and to all doubters who have only numbers on paper or computer to go by – the Subaru BRZ is one hell of a real sports car and, on roads like these, will beat the tar out of all legitimate comers selling for anywhere near the Subie's estimated $25,500, and many selling on up to $45,000. I was actually spotted shaking my head in disbelief while talking one-on-one with the BRZ's senior project manager, Toshio Masuda, following the drive. I felt as though I'd just driven a Porsche Cayman at less than half the price. Acceleration to 60 mph is estimated at below 7.0 seconds – some outlets have timed their examples at more like 7.3 – but straight-line gusto isn't really what this car is about.
.....
The engine's 151 lb-ft of torque number is so unimpressive, though, and I found myself downshifting frequently to second where it would have been nice to settle in third.
....
I asked Masuda-san point-blank if indeed there will be an STI-style turbocharged BRZ by the time this generation reaches the middle of its life in two-and-a-half or three years. A number came out of his mouth that raised my eyebrows. "In future, there is the thought to have as much as 280 horsepower." Well, uh, gosh, that's even a bit more than I was gambling for. "And we are," he went on, "thinking very much about the possibility of a turbocharger." So, could we be digging on somewhere around 250 pound-feet of torque? The master would not confirm or deny, but he did say that such a model would probably not use the acronym STI.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Autoblog First Drive is up: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/26/2013-subaru-brz-first-drive-review-video/

Some quotes:

If that were to really happen that car would be amazing! 280hp/250tq 😱

Though I'd be pretty curious as to what they would go with if not an STi badge.

 

[amish]

Autoblog First Drive is up: "In future, there is the thought to have as much as 280 horsepower." Well, uh, gosh, that's even a bit more than I was gambling for. "And we are," he went on, "thinking very much about the possibility of a turbocharger."

i won't even humor the thought of buying this until a turbo is added now.

 

[Kroze]

After that comes the light weight of the BRZ 2+2, which, in base trim with manual gearbox, starts at 2,762 pounds. That's more than 300 pounds lighter than a Mazda RX-8, close to 600 pounds less than a comparably equipped Hyundai Genesis Coupe and roughly 1,000 pounds less than the base Chevrolet Camaro V6. What we have here is the lightest, lowest, front-engined, rear-wheel-drive 2+2 in existence – a very good starting point for dynamic goodness.

 

[nicolaskl]

20 bucks says the (less expensive) Mustang V6 blows its doors off at VIR.

 

[HAL9000]

It Doesn't look like ass.

I disagree. You posted all the flattering images and not the hideous one.

D:

 

[foghorn67]

20 bucks says the (less expensive) Mustang V6 blows its doors off at VIR.

It was amazingly quick last time around. It's stupid 115mph governor kicked on a few times, one of them for seconds on end.

 

[vshah]

It was amazingly quick last time around. It's stupid 115mph governor kicked on a few times, one of them for seconds on end.

its not stupid, it prevents the driveshaft from shattering 😀

 

[Imported]

MotorTrend quick comparison: Tested: 2013 Subaru BRZ Hits 60 MPH in 6.4 Sec, Quarter Mile in 14.9 Sec @ 95.5 MPH

I'll do a test drive, but I'd probably wait for a turbo version myself.

 

[foghorn67]

its not stupid, it prevents the driveshaft from shattering 😀

Lol. Forgot about that.

 

[Atty]

Top Gear UK chimes in, source: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/subaru-brz-review-first-drive-2012-28-2

You might think you know every last detail about the BRZ. Between Subaru and Toyota, there’s been a blizzard of multimedia. Enough concept cars, prototype sneak previews and track tests to broach your download limits.

But you don’t know it all. Because this is a road car, and here we are for the first time on the actual road.

See more pics of the Subaru BRZ on the road

So does it live up to the hype? Of course not. Unless it had been styled by da Vinci and engineered by Brunel – and for good measure had Newton quietly bent the laws of mechanics in its favour – it’d never have been as good as they said it would be.

But oh my, it comes close.

A quick recap. It’s a low-built, short-overhang, long-wheelbase rear-drive coupe. But the centre of mass is even lower than everyone else’s cars of that type, because it has a flat-four engine. And actually the flat-four is even lower and far further back than with other Subarus, because (since it’s RWD-only) there are no front driveshafts or diff in the way. There’s a limited-slip diff. It uses comparatively narrow tyres, so its 200bhp is enough.

The whole thing is a recipe for agility, low roll, tossable handling and general chicanery.

And so it turns out. The first few mountain hairpins or wet roundabouts verify that pivoting into a corner is the most natural feeling in the world. The front wheels are always happy to carve the exact track you request. Then you can poke the back end out and feel the hero. And unlike some rear-drivers, the BRZ’s magical balance and progression means it’s a cinch to gather up again. The low roll makes it marvellously tidy through S-bends.

But a road car needs more from its suspension and steering than a track car does. The steering needs to be direct and progressive, so you can pour the car into an uneven or unknown bend. The springs need to absorb bumps and keep the tyres evenly weighted so you don’t hop about.

And the BRZ is brilliant there too. All the steering lacks is a bit more feel, to tell you how much grip the tyres have left. But in this car more than in most, you don’t miss that because the rest of the car’s reactions are so accurate and faithful. You get the information from other sources.

The 200bhp two-litre is enough engine. Just. In this age of turbos, it does seem very light on torque between 3000 and 4000rpm. You have to revise your whole style of driving. Change down. And again. Rev its little spuds off, make sure you keep getting flashed by shift-up light as you zero in on 7500. That way happiness lies. For a flat-four, it doesn’t sound as charismatic as it might, but it’s always smooth enough that there’s no pain in sticking with those epic revs.

See more pics of the Subaru BRZ on the road



Hardcore though all of that might seem, this is a road car and you’ve got to be able to live with it. And though it’s firm, the ride is OK because you sit so low and so far from the wheels, there’s very little pitch and rock. The seats are brilliant and the legs-forward driving position spot-on. Everything quietens down decently at a motorway cruise. It’s easy to see out of, and the boot’s a decent size. If the front passenger slides forward, there’s even space to jam a grown-up in behind. Though there’d be human rights issues if you kept them there for more than 10 minutes.

And it looks good. Very good actually – bigger, more grown-up and less delicate than in pictures. A serious car.

And a serious laugh.

Page 2 of 2
First of all, let’s solve the mystery of the name. BRZ stands for Boxer, Rear-wheel drive, Zenith. That’s pretty clear isn’t it? Well, the first two parts are, and as for Zenith, that’s just Subaru’s way of saying this is the best it can do. Personally I think Subaru Zenith has more of a ring to it than Subaru BRZ which, let’s face it, isn’t exactly a dynamic name.

And this is a shame for a rather dynamic car. That’s right, we’ve finally, finally driven the BRZ. We had to go all the way to Subaru’s test track, two hours north of Tokyo to do so, but it was worth it.

So where to start? As suspected, both Subaru and Toyota have had specific tasks within this joint project. Toyota has been responsible for the design (certainly not the most dynamic aspect of the BRZ), and has lent its direct injection technology to the engine. Subaru has done pretty much everything else. Talking to the engineers you get the sense this is very much Subaru’s car – the first development prototype was a cut n’ shut Legacy, the next an Impreza. This is good news, as we know Subaru can build great cars. The BRZ clearly has potential.

It’s a brand new car from scratch – a rare thing these days. The engine is mounted so low, Subaru believes it has a lower centre of gravity than a Ferrari 458. And a low engine is not only good for handling, but also means the driver can be sat low, yet still see over the bonnet. It’s snug inside, the design largely functional, the colour scheme mostly grey. It’s no Audi TT, but the impression is good because you’ve dropped so low into a wrap-around seat and your hands are clasping a small, feelsome wheel.

The driver’s seat is definitely the place to be. Subaru boasts that this is the world’s smallest four seat rear-wheel drive coupe, so you can guess what that means for those travelling in the back. And the boot seems to be a complete afterthought.

See all the pictures from the Subaru BRZ first drive

But enough of that, it’s the driving that counts. The 2.0-litre flat four is naturally aspirated, revs to 7,400rpm and develops 200bhp and 151lb ft of torque. These, you don’t need me to point out, aren’t massively impressive figures these days. And the BRZ isn’t a massively fast car. Final homologation happens next month, the expectation being a 0-62mph time of around 6.8secs with the CO2 target being 160g/km. I’d guess at a top speed of around 145mph, and 42mpg on the combined cycle.

It’s light though (1,220kg), and Subaru has worked the torque hard, so although the peak is between 6,400-6,600rpm, you have almost all of that before 3,000rpm. Put your foot down at low revs and it picks up healthily, aided by super-quick throttle response. But it tails off a bit through the mid-range, meaning you have to head for the high numbers to get your kicks. And that’s where the BRZ is at its best. It zips through the final 2,000rpm, feels keen and energetic and then, well, and then there’s the noise. We have high hopes…

Of course, it sounds different. This Boxer doesn’t chunter and warble like an old Impreza, it’s a smoother note than that, still slightly off-beat and noisy enough without being intrusive. It’s not Honda Type-R addictive, but it’s a plus, a whack more interesting to listen to than any four cylinder turbo you care to mention (VW Scirocco? Renaultsport Megane? Mini Cooper S?). It makes this a fun engine to use, but it’s not the best thing about the car.

Because the best thing is the handling. The BRZ steers like it has no weight to deal with. It doesn’t appear to roll, pitch or dive. It’s neither nose nor tail heavy, just a sense of the front and rear working in perfect harmony. You steer, it goes and when the grip runs out (it was pouring with rain in Japan), the BRZ is almost totally neutral. And you get so much warning of when that’s about to happen. I was nervous when I found out it had electric power steering, but this has to be about the best system I’ve tried – the springy weighting is lovely and real sensations are fed back into your hands.

How best to describe it as an overall package? Keen. Eager. It’s not puppy-ish in its enthusiasm, it’s a bit more measured than that, but it’s a lot of fun. Easily better to drive than a VW Scirocco; more agile and rewarding than any Audi TT. It may not have the lungs on a Nissan 370Z, but it’s way more dextrous and I can’t think of any hot hatch except possibly the Renaultsport Clio that provides as much satisfaction.

You can still tell that it’s a Subaru at heart – not just in the engine, but the steering and manual gearbox – but it’s like they’ve let Lotus loose on the chassis. Well, almost. The light frame does get a bit thrown by big bumps, but it never feels unnerving, instead it inspires confidence.

The manual gearbox is really good – mechanical and precise – and the six-speed auto is better than expected. It’s not a double clutch, but it’s just fast enough and intelligent enough to justify its presence in a sports car.

See all the pictures from the Subaru BRZ first drive

Any other criticisms? Well, being honest, the BRZ seems slightly out of step with other rivals. Subaru has ditched the turbo just as others have adopted it, it’s available with an unfashionable auto rather than a double clutch, the biggest wheels are likely to be 17s, there’s no adaptive damping or any other chassis trickery. But does this matter? It will to some buyers, just as the styling is too plain to tempt others. But if you enjoy driving, if you relish the thought of a compact rear-drive coupe, this is the car for you. Roughly 1,000 per year will come to the UK, starting in June, with prices from around £26,000-28,000.

 

[Throckmorton]

BUT rumor does have it that the next Miata is going to "return to its roots" as they say. It will pack a dose of SkyActiv philosophy. It will probably be lighter, more efficient, and probably more powerful.

And it will still deliver you the sky, giving you the best of both worlds when it comes to a hardtop and convertible.

The Miata will be as underpowered as always. Mazda only wants its "hot hatches" getting to 60mph in under 7 seconds. Sports cars must be slow. Something about slowness being part of a sports car's character, according to the Miata fanboys at least.

 

[Throckmorton]

It's slower than the old 4.0L V6 Mustang 🙁

 

[Eugene86]

I'm really interested in this car but I don't think I'm going to end up buying it because it's simply going to be too expensive here in Canada.

What really makes me laugh are the people who keep trying to justify the measly 200hp that this car has. They keep saying that it doesn't need the extra horsepower as it's not heavy. Uhuh, sure. If this car had 250-300hp, they'd all be singing praises that it's the best car in the world, even more so than they do now. We all know that the 200hp, while still a good number, is fairly inadequate to really compete with other cars. Adding a turbo from the get go would have retained this car's handling prowess but would have also allowed it to be quick off the line as well as coming out of a turn. All this BS about how it doesn't need more hp is just that, BS.

 

[soccerballtux]

The Miata will be as underpowered as always. Mazda only wants its "hot hatches" getting to 60mph in under 7 seconds. Sports cars must be slow. Something about slowness being part of a sports car's character, according to the Miata fanboys at least.

more time to recognize that you're accelerating 🙂