Is it just me or is nVidia the only option these days?

[lebe0024]

I've been strictly an ATI owner ever since I bought my Radeon 64mb VIVO, clocked at an amazing 183/183! I need to upgrade from a soft-modded 9500. However, at each of these price points it seems that nVidia has a faster card available:

~$120 : 6600GT

~$200 : 6800GS

~$300 : 7800GT


Are there any ATI cards out that can beat these, or fill a gap between them? The x800 GTO-16 is competative with the 6800GS at $200, but I think I'd still take the 6800GS.

Is there some awesome deal for an ATI card that I'm missing? If not, I'm going to wait for a deal on a 7800GT. They were going for $265 a few weeks ago, but I missed it.

 

[Yreka]

At those price range maybe, but the 1800XT is looking pretty nice to this normally Nvidia buyer. If they could drop the prices a bit, the XL would match up nicely with the 7800GT. GIven the GT has been out longer, it may just happen yet.

 

[lebe0024]

Agreed. The 1800XT is the only good card I see out there that does well against it's nVidia counterpart. But the 1800XL can't beat the 7800GT, especially at the prices 7800GTs are going for currently.

 

[Eureka]

GTOs overclock and unlock better than 6800GS... so there's a very good card in itself. For us AGP users, x850xt is the best deal we can get now.

And we've yet to see what the new x1k series can do.

Norm

 

[Matthias99]

Well, $110 is a pretty lowball price on the 6600GT (only ones I can find *that* low involve a MIR). Most are still closer to $130-150. And the X800 (ATI's most direct competitor) is faster than the 6600GT, but it costs a little more.

An unlocked X800GTO/GTO2 is going to pummel a 6800GS if it gets any kind of overclock. The X800XL is similar in performance, but at current prices it's not as competitive with the 6800GS in bang/buck (though newegg does have a PowerColor one for $195 right now).

The X1800XL gives the 7800GT a good run in terms of performance, but costs a bit more. You do get somewhat better IQ (with the angle-independent AF) and less of a performance hit with AA/AF (and who buys a $300 card and doesn't use AA/AF?). Prices have still been coming down over the last month, so they may end up under $300 after Christmas.

 

[Unkno]

When the gto2 is unlocked and overclocked, it's better than the X850XT PE, which is better than the 6800GS/GT

 

[lebe0024]

I'm not even considerint an unlocked GTO because it may not unlock.

Is the GTO2 guarenteed to unlock? If so, it's still the same price as the 6800GS, and you have to overclock it to make it perform better than a STOCK 6800GS.

 

[nitromullet]

X800XL@ $200 is a pretty good competitor to the 6800GS.

 

[Unkno]

Originally posted by: lebe0024
I'm not even considerint an unlocked GTO because it may not unlock.

Is the GTO2 guarenteed to unlock? If so, it's still the same price as the 6800GS, and you have to overclock it to make it perform better than a STOCK 6800GS.

yup the GTO2 is guaranteed to unlock...haven't seen one GTO2 not unlock. The GTO might not be able to unlock, depends on luck but all the GTOs are VERY good overclockers. Overclocking them would get you near the performance of a unlocked and overclocked since your not able to overclock as high when you unlock it

 

[lebe0024]

X800XL@ $200 is a pretty good competitor to the 6800GS.

Not according to the anandtech 6800GS review. Either the 6800GS beats it by large margins, or the X800XL wins by a few fps (in HL2). I'd rather buy the 6800GS than the x800XL. It also shows the 6800GS SPANKING the stock GTO in everything.

Like I said, if I was offered a guarentee in the unlockability and overclockability of the GTO, it'd be an option. But I'm talking about guarenteed numbers here. I think that's perfectly fair.

 

[lebe0024]

I agree with this quote in the conclusion of the 6800GS reivew by anandtech:

This card does for NVIDIA what the X800 GTO did for ATI a short time ago. The X800 GTO falls short in terms of value compared to the 6800 GS, which is both impressive and exactly why NVIDIA wanted to bring it out now. With initial prices on upcoming ATI parts looking to be a little high for their performance, this seals a recommendation for NVIDIA for the holiday season: if you've got about $220 to spend on a graphics card, the 6800 GS is the part to have.
Of course, if you are the adventurous kind and enjoy modding your hardware, the X800 GTO does have something to offer. Most of these cards are easily overclockable and/or flashable to 16 pixel pipelines. The 6800 GS won't allow anyone to unlock extra pipelines as the silicon is built around 12 pixel pipes to save die area. Getting good results with the X800 GTO is not guaranteed, but for those willing to take the risk, the option is there.

Edit: The big risk for me just isn't worth the moderate possible gain.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: lebe0024

X800XL@ $200 is a pretty good competitor to the 6800GS.

Not according to the anandtech 6800GS review. Either the 6800GS beats it by large margins, or the X800XL wins by a few fps (in HL2). I'd rather buy the 6800GS than the x800XL. It also shows the 6800GS SPANKING the stock GTO in everything.

Like I said, if I was offered a guarentee in the unlockability and overclockability of the GTO, it'd be an option. But I'm talking about guarenteed numbers here. I think that's perfectly fair.

AT didn't do any of those tests with AA or AF, so the results between the GS and the XL could be a bit different if you actually didn't want your games to look like complete crap.

 

[lebe0024]

AT didn't do any of those tests with AA or AF, so the results between the GS and the XL could be a bit different if you actually didn't want your games to look like complete crap.

Yes, AT did do AA tests at the end of the review, and they traded wins in BF2 and Splinter Cell. But even at 1024x768 the numbers for 4xAA for BOTH of those cards are pretty low, and I wouldn't run AA with any recent games on those cards.

 

[jc9970]

Def go with Nvidia. No reason to go ATI

 

[chilled]

Originally posted by: lebe0024

X800XL@ $200 is a pretty good competitor to the 6800GS.

Not according to the anandtech 6800GS review. Either the 6800GS beats it by large margins, or the X800XL wins by a few fps (in HL2). I'd rather buy the 6800GS than the x800XL. It also shows the 6800GS SPANKING the stock GTO in everything.

Like I said, if I was offered a guarentee in the unlockability and overclockability of the GTO, it'd be an option. But I'm talking about guarenteed numbers here. I think that's perfectly fair.

I think I'd agree, especially since to RMA it, you have to flash it back to the original BIOS. For me overclocking is one thing but flashing BIOSes is a different ball game because of this.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
X800XL@ $200 is a pretty good competitor to the 6800GS.

you go that right, good cards them, even if they suck the big one in the OC'ing stakes

the X800GTO is a good card, providing the unlock and overclock works, its not guarantee'd though, and its a bit of hassle

the PCI-E 6800GS is a pretty good card, with decent OCing potential. the AGP doesnt look as promising, clocking in slower by 75mhz than the PCI-E version, and being based on older NV40 chips (thats my reckoning anyway....saves NV having to use the bridge chip)

its a toss up really, i doubt you'd know the difference between a X800XL and 6800GS (specially on AGP since they both weigh in at 400Mhz) in real life.....just get the better deal

 

[lebe0024]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: nitromullet
X800XL@ $200 is a pretty good competitor to the 6800GS.

you go that right, good cards them, even if they suck the big one in the OC'ing stakes

Does this sentence make sense to anyone else?

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: lebe0024

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: nitromullet
X800XL@ $200 is a pretty good competitor to the 6800GS.

you go that right, good cards them, even if they suck the big one in the OC'ing stakes

Does this sentence make sense to anyone else?

ive edited, and yes it makes sense.............the X800XL is a great card at stock speeds, its just doesnt overclock very well. but then again thats not what the warranty covers is it? any extra speed you get is a bonus, but it also voids the warranty since you ran it over its rated operating criteria. anything you get for free you cant complain about.

its a good card at stock speeds, but then you cant mark it down for having crap OC potential because when you oc your getting more than you paid for

 

[chilled]

Translated: I think you should buy the X800XL. They are good cards, despite having a disappointing overclocking ability.

EDIT: Damn, beat me to it!

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: chilled
Translated: I think you should buy the X800XL. They are good cards, despite having a disappointing overclocking ability.

i didnt see what was so hard to understand, makes perfect reading

 

[Munky]

Is it just me or is nVidia the only option these days?

No, it's just you.

An x800xl is in most cases even with a 6800gt, and so is the 6800gs. HowTF then is a 6800gs >>> x800xl? Hmmm...?

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: lebe0024

AT didn't do any of those tests with AA or AF, so the results between the GS and the XL could be a bit different if you actually didn't want your games to look like complete crap.

Yes, AT did do AA tests at the end of the review, and they traded wins in BF2 and Splinter Cell. But even at 1024x768 the numbers for 4xAA for BOTH of those cards are pretty low, and I wouldn't run AA with any recent games on those cards.

Sorry, didin't get that far. I'm not too terrbily interested in mid range cards, but your thread title was intriguing enough to make me look

Sounds like your choice would be the 6800GS between the two... Although, personally I'd skip both of those cards and save up for a $300 7800GT. IMO, $200 is still a lot of money a card that can't run any AA/AF on new games.

Edit: plus with the 7800GT, you get transparent AA which is pretty nice looking.

 

[lebe0024]

An x800xl is in most cases even with a 6800gt, and so is the 6800gs. HowTF then is a 6800gs >>> x800xl? Hmmm...?

The AT 6800GS review clearly shows the 6800GS beating the x800XL in most games by a healthy margin. Only in two: HL and something else (I can't remember) were they even.

Sounds like your choice would be the 6800GS between the two... Although, personally I'd skip both of those cards and save up for a $300 7800GT. IMO, $200 is still a lot of money a card that can't run any AA/AF on new games.

Edit: plus with the 7800GT, you get transparent AA which is pretty nice looking.

I agree completely. I'm going to wait for a 7800GT deal and jump on it. THey're 285 after rebate right now, which is loads better than $200 for 6800GS, in my opinion.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: lebe0024

AT didn't do any of those tests with AA or AF, so the results between the GS and the XL could be a bit different if you actually didn't want your games to look like complete crap.

Yes, AT did do AA tests at the end of the review, and they traded wins in BF2 and Splinter Cell. But even at 1024x768 the numbers for 4xAA for BOTH of those cards are pretty low, and I wouldn't run AA with any recent games on those cards.

If you look at digit-life's tests from last month, the X800XL looks quite a bit closer. These tests aren't using the latest drivers, though, which are supposed to give ATI performance a boost.

Far Cry: Tie/X800XL is slightly faster (with or without AA/AF)
SC:CT : Tie (with or without AA/AF)
HL2: X800XL faster without AA/AF, 6800GS a little faster with AA/AF
Doom3: 6800GS is much faster without AA/AF, slightly faster with AA/AF
3DMark05: Just about a dead heat without AA/AF, 6800GS *slightly* faster with AA/AF
Riddick: 6800GS is slightly faster (with or without AA/AF)
FEAR: 6800GS is a *hair* faster without AA/AF, slightly slower with it.
BF2: 6800GS is WAY faster without AA/AF (but both cards are over 100FPS even at 1600x1200), but noticeably slower than the X800XL with AA/AF enabled.
COD2 (demo): Even without AA/AF, 6800GS is slightly faster with AA/AF.

The 6800GS has a slight edge, I guess, but they're pretty close. The 5.12/5.13 ATI drivers might also help performance a bit for the X800XL.

In XBitLabs recent roundup (this is with the 5.12 drivers for ATI):

AoE3: Even without AA/AF, X800XL is way faster with AA/AF (but the 6800GS is running SM3.0 effects).
BF2: 6800GS is faster without AA/AF, X800XL is faster with AA/AF.
COD2: X800XL is faster without AA/AF, 6800GS is faster with it (though both are pretty slow; 6800GS would really only be usable at 1024x768 with AA/AF).
FEAR: Even without AA/AF, X800XL is faster with AA/AF.
Quake4: Even without AA/AF, X800XL is faster with AA/AF.
SS2: 6800GS is much faster either way (but XBit says it looks like a driver bug in the 5.12s for ATI).
SC:CT: X800XL is faster with or without AA/AF.

Pretty even again, maybe even a slight edge to the X800XL (barring whatever is screwing up SS2). Their conclusion:

The sensation revealed when testing contemporary performance-mainstream graphics cards in the latest games is strange, but real: after being a year on the market, ATI RADEON X800 XL seems to be the most balanced performance-mainstream graphics card in terms of performance!

Seems like performance is comparable. Not surprising, since the X800XL also performed close to the 6800GT a year ago.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I dunno if newegg has that package deal with the evga mobo and 7800GT, but I got the set for $379. Normally the mobo goes for about $130, so its a $250 7800GT. You're going to need a new mobo anyways...so