is it just me, or does it seem like maybe our two campaigns in the middle east...

[TastesLikeChicken]

Sorry, no. The available evidence isn't enough to conclude anything about who was truly behind the 9/11 attacks. I've looked at it up and down and find nothing convincing about it.

So now you fully admit that you can't possibly know that the government was behind 9/11.

Thanks. Thought so.

 

[Juror No. 8]

I love it when conspiracy theorists start ridiculing sane people for their sanity.

Says the conspiracy theorist who believes in a Muslim/Al-Qaeda 9/11 conspiracy.

LOL.

 

[Juror No. 8]

So now you fully admit that you can't possibly know that the government was behind 9/11.

Thanks. Thought so.

By accepting my answer as correct, you also accept the fact that you can't possibly know that Al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden were the real architects of 9/11.

Gotcha.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

By accepting my answer as correct, you also accept the fact that you can't possibly know that Al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden were the real architects of 9/11.

Gotcha.

I didn't accept your answer as correct but as a statement of what you personally know about the issue. It was merely an admission by you that YOU can't come to any conclusion. I suppose you don't believe in any of the 'sciency' kind of things either because you haven't witnessed the facts yourself and don't know enough to come to any conclusion, therefore things like gravity and atoms don't really exist? So much science information comes from government and the media and they lie all the time, according to you, so it can't possibly be true in your mind. After all, that's the same intellectual tack you're arguing in regard to 9/11.

Stay clueless, my friend.

 

[Juror No. 8]

Stay clueless, my friend.

LOL. Says the guy who believes the corporate controlled government and media would never lie to him, at least not about anything important like a terror attack.

"But, but, but... Al-Qaeda is real! The TV says so! The TV also says they took responsibility for the attack! I don't care that there's a possibility Al-Qaeda is a creation of the U.S. government! They did it! They admitted it, and the government says so too! There's no such thing as false flag operations! The government would never do that to us! The TV says so! Reality is whatever the people on TV say it is!"

LOL!

 

[Abwx]

Where is your proof that they had an active role in it?

WTC7.

Give us an explanation.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

LOL. Says the guy who believes the corporate controlled government and media would never lie to him, at least not about anything important like a terror attack.

"But, but, but... Al-Qaeda is real! The TV says so! The TV also says they took responsibility for the attack! I don't care that there's a possibility Al-Qaeda is a creation of the U.S. government! They did it! They admitted it, and the government says so too! There's no such thing as false flag operations! The government would never do that to us! The TV says so! Reality is whatever the people on TV say it is!"

LOL!

You're really a shallow, ignorant little tool, aren't you? Apparently you don't even have the mental capacity to take a few additional observations into consideration.

1) I consider the current explanation for 9/11 the best explanation, by far. In fact, there really isn't another viable explanation. It's not from a lack of people trying. Lord knows the truthers have spouted all of their nonsense for years and keep trying to evolve their story every time their latest line of faulty reasoning gets bitch-slapped into oblivion.

It's very similar to how one approaches science. You take the best explanation available and consider it to be relatively correct until a better explanation comes along. There is no better explanation than the current one, not by a long shot.

2) If the "government" (btw, you use the word as if our government is a monolithic entity moving single-mindedly in one direction. Nothing could be further from the truth.) was behind 9/11 there would be outside evidence. Such a vast government conspiracy would have involved a relatively large amount of people. China, Iran, North Korea and a number of other countries would love to be able to prove that the US government was beind 9/11. They have vast intel networks. They aren't stupid. So why haven't they produced such evidence of US government complicity in over 10 years? Try as they might the US gov couldn't prevent such information from becoming available in various forms of the media. In fact, the major media outlets would be trumpeting it from dawn to dusk and we would get sick of the coverage.

So where is this bombshell of government involvement? I'll tell you where it is. It's purely in the minds of the paranoid delusional types like yourself who think they have airtight arguments to prove their case but really haven't thought things through at all. Your reasoning has holes, kiddo, big gaping ones. That's why the sane folk in P&N call people like you "nutjobs" and every truther that has ever dropped in here and pranced around with their air of superioirty over "the sheeple" has eventually been laughed out of the place. You might last a while, but you won't last. Enjoy your stay until that laughter starts hurting your brain, and it will eventually.

 

[Juror No. 8]

You're really a shallow, ignorant little tool, aren't you? Apparently you don't even have the mental capacity to take a few additional observations into consideration.

1) I consider the current explanation for 9/11 the best explanation, by far. In fact, there really isn't another viable explanation. It's not from a lack of people trying. Lord knows the truthers have spouted all of their nonsense for years and keep trying to evolve their story every time their latest line of faulty reasoning gets bitch-slapped into oblivion.

No, it's not the most viable explanation by any measure. I say the most viable explanation involves a U.S. government false flag operation using Muslim patsies.

It's very similar to how one approaches science. You take the best explanation available and consider it to be relatively correct until a better explanation comes along. There is no better explanation than the current one, not by a long shot.

Sorry, sweetie, but that's a matter of opinion.

The best explanation for 9/11 is it was a U.S. government false flag operation. The U.S. needed an excuse to wage multiple wars in the Middle East, and a phoney terrorist attack was the best option available.

2) If the "government" (btw, you use the word as if our government is a monolithic entity moving single-mindedly in one direction. Nothing could be further from the truth.) was behind 9/11 there would be outside evidence.

Who says there would be outside evidence? The U.S. government has managed to carry out secret operations in the past and kept them classified, so why would this be any different?

Such a vast government conspiracy would have involved a relatively large amount of people.

Not necessarily, but even if it did involve a good number of people, the U.S. government is so heavily compartmentalized that people involved in a small but key part of the operation might not have known the full picture.

When it comes to the U.S. government, the left hand doesn't always know what the right hand is doing.

China, Iran, North Korea and a number of other countries would love to be able to prove that the US government was beind 9/11.

That doesn't mean they have the ability. Those same governments would also love to know what secret military hardware we have or in development. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean they have access to such information at all times.

They have vast intel networks. They aren't stupid. So why haven't they produced such evidence of US government complicity in over 10 years?

What makes you think that just because a nation has an intelligence network they know everything about another country? We have the biggest intelligence network in the world, by a mile, yet, according to the narrative you believe in, we couldn't find and kill Osama bin Laden for ten years.

If intelligence networks are omnipotent, as you believe, why did it take so long?

Try as they might the US gov couldn't prevent such information from becoming available in various forms of the media. In fact, the major media outlets would be trumpeting it from dawn to dusk and we would get sick of the coverage.

Why couldn't they prevent such information from becoming available? Secret CIA and military operations are easily classified.

Why would this be any different?

So where is this bombshell of government involvement?

And where is the credible, conclusive evidence that Al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden were truly responsible for the 9/11 attacks?

I'll tell you where it is. It's purely in the minds of the paranoid delusional types like yourself who think they have airtight arguments to prove their case but really haven't thought things through at all. Your reasoning has holes, kiddo, big gaping ones.

If my reasoning has holes, as you claim, why can't you find a single one?

That's why the sane folk in P&N call people like you "nutjobs" and every truther that has ever dropped in here and pranced around with their air of superioirty over "the sheeple" has eventually been laughed out of the place. You might last a while, but you won't last. Enjoy your stay until that laughter starts hurting your brain, and it will eventually.

How do you know it's not you Government Truthers who are the insane ones?

Anyway, it looks like you've lost this debate and have started waving the white flag. Anyone else want to step up?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

No, it's not the most viable explanation by any measure. I say the most viable explanation involves a U.S. government false flag operation using Muslim patsies.

Based on what evidence?

Sorry, sweetie, but that's a matter of opinion.

No, honeypie, it's a fact. There is no other explanation that has any sort of factual basis and evidence. In fact, it's a common question asked of truthers in here - "What is YOUR theory? Please provide specifics" There is never an answer, only crickets.

The best explanation for 9/11 is it was a U.S. government false flag operation. The U.S. needed an excuse to wage multiple wars in the Middle East, and a phoney terrorist attack was the best option available.

Completely speculative. Where is your evidence?

Who says there would be outside evidence? The U.S. government has managed to carry out secret operations in the past and kept them classified, so why would this be any different?

It's all about scale. It would have been impossible to keep government involvement of the scale of 9/11 a secret. So many would have to have been involved on BOTH sides. Someone would have talked by now.

Not necessarily, but even if it did involve a good number of people, the U.S. government is so heavily compartmentalized that people involved in a small but key part of the operation might not have known the full picture.

When it comes to the U.S. government, the left hand doesn't always know what the right hand is doing.

So now you are changing your story to 'It wasn't really the government, it was a small department in the government."? Really? Which department was that, exactly?

That doesn't mean they have the ability. Those same governments would also love to know what secret military hardware we have or in development. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean they have access to such information at all times.

China damn sure does have the ability. Do you think they create military knockoffs of our latest tech by shooting in the dark? It's also about collecting intel and plenty of those countries are every bit the equal of the US in that respect. We are also talking 10 years down the road now. In 10 years they have uncovered nothing of the supposed great government coverup that you claim to exist? You are deluding yourself boy-o.

What makes you think that just because a nation has an intelligence network they know everything about another country? We have the biggest intelligence network in the world, by a mile, yet, according to the narrative you believe in, we couldn't find and kill Osama bin Laden for ten years.[

If intelligence networks are omnipotent, as you believe, why did it take so long?

Don't put words in my mouth. I made no claim of countries knowing "everything." Such overstatement makes you look desperate to score a point and foolish in the process.

According to what I've read, there were plenty of previous near misses in finding OBL. He was constantly on the run for a while. It's also my understanding that his place in Islamabad was discovered @ 2009 and the US planned deliberately and carefully to insure it was him. Now he's dancing with Davey Jones.

There's also the fact that, eventually, we DID find him. Yet in 10 years there isn't one shred of evidence that indicates the government (err, department, or compartmentalized government entity, or whatever unknown and undefined mysterious government force that you allege) was involved in 9/11. So all you have is some very specious claims.

Why couldn't they prevent such information from becoming available? Secret CIA and military operations are easily classified.

Why would this be any different?

I've already addressed this question, which you've asked a number of ways, a number of times.

And where is the credible, conclusive evidence that Al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden were truly responsible for the 9/11 attacks?

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

If my reasoning has holes, as you claim, why can't you find a single one?

I've already pointed out the numerous holes above and in my previous responses. Your failure to acknowledge them doesn't change that fact.

How do you know it's not you Government Truthers who are the insane ones?

Anyway, it looks like you've lost this debate and have started waving the white flag. Anyone else want to step up?

lol. So says the guy who has made a highly generalized claim and can't provide the first shred of evidence to back it up. Truthers are all the same. Delusional in more ways than one.

 

[Capt Caveman]

TLC ignore the troll. There is only one story and the troll can't even provide a shred of evidence from a non-US gov't controlled media website or even provide a single person involved with this supposed US plot to confess to it. It's the greatest and most secretive gov't conspiracy ever mastermind.

Still can't figure out why the thread hasn't been locked, the OP nor the trolls have been able to come up with a single link of anything to defend their argument.

 

[JEDIYoda]

WTC7.

Give us an explanation.

He doesn`t owe you an explanation......you should do the explaining....
Don`t answer a question with a question..that just indicates you cant answer his question...

Didn`t somebody have a super long thread about WTC 7 who plagerized his math and as it turned out was rebukked and his math was debunked by members of this forum as not being credible...hmmmmm

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

TLC ignore the troll. There is only one story and the troll can't even provide a shred of evidence from a non-US gov't controlled media website or even provide a single person involved with this supposed US plot to confess to it. It's the greatest and most secretive gov't conspiracy ever mastermind.

I just can't help myself. I find the simplistic truther troll mind and the juxtaposition of their smugness, and their belief that they have special, secret knowledge that others can't comprehend, to be a fascinating case study of a group of retards posting on the internet.

:biggrin:

 

[Juror No. 8]

Based on what evidence?

The same inconclusive evidence you have.

No, honeypie, it's a fact. There is no other explanation that has any sort of factual basis and evidence.

Correction: Your explanation has no factual basis or evidence, other than evidence strategically provided by the government, one of the primary suspects in the case.

Not very credible, sweetie.

In fact, it's a common question asked of truthers in here - "What is YOUR theory? Please provide specifics" There is never an answer, only crickets.

The U.S. government did it, without a doubt.

Only moron Government Truthers believe otherwise.

Completely speculative. Where is your evidence?

Good question. Where's yours?

It's all about scale. It would have been impossible to keep government involvement of the scale of 9/11 a secret.

Completely speculative. Where is your evidence?

So many would have to have been involved on BOTH sides. Someone would have talked by now.

LOL, nonsense. The conspiracy theory you subscribe to only features what, 19 hijackers and a few terrorist mastermind super villains? If 25-50 Al-Qaeda amateurs could do it and keep it a secret, so could the U.S. government, especially if the original hijackers were actually secretly and unknowingly working for the U.S. government.

Either way, you have no evidence for your claims.

So now you are changing your story to 'It wasn't really the government, it was a small department in the government."? Really? Which department was that, exactly?

A small department in the U.S. government would be the U.S. government, moron.

Anyway, the CIA could have easily pulled off the 9/11 attacks.

China damn sure does have the ability. Do you think they create military knockoffs of our latest tech by shooting in the dark?

LOL, if it's so easy, why don't the Chinese have exact replicas of all of our equipment and tech?

It's also about collecting intel and plenty of those countries are every bit the equal of the US in that respect. We are also talking 10 years down the road now. In 10 years they have uncovered nothing of the supposed great government coverup that you claim to exist? You are deluding yourself boy-o.

How do you know they haven't? Because the TV hasn't reported it? LOL.

Don't put words in my mouth. I made no claim of countries knowing "everything." Such overstatement makes you look desperate to score a point and foolish in the process.

So, if you admit that countries don't know "everything", why would you assume they would have inside intelligence on a Top Secret false flag operation?

According to what I've read, there were plenty of previous near misses in finding OBL. He was constantly on the run for a while. It's also my understanding that his place in Islamabad was discovered @ 2009 and the US planned deliberately and carefully to insure it was him.

Interesting. So foreign intelligence services have the capability to know all about our intelligence agency's most secretive operations, but our intelligence agency, which is the most advanced in the world, couldn't seem to locate a single man with severe health issues?

LOL. You can't possibly believe this pablum you're spewing, can you?

Now he's dancing with Davey Jones.

At least, that's what the government claims. Of course, there's not a shred of evidence that Osama bin Laden was killed in the raid last year. There's not a shred of evidence he was even there.

It all comes down to, "but the government says so!".

There's also the fact that, eventually, we DID find him. Yet in 10 years there isn't one shred of evidence that indicates the government (err, department, or compartmentalized government entity, or whatever unknown and undefined mysterious government force that you allege) was involved in 9/11. So all you have is some very specious claims.

Of course there isn't, since the government controlled the investigation and follow-up inquiry.

Like I said, if the Mafia controlled the investigation into a diamond heist, they would make damn sure they didn't allow anyone to see evidence that they were the ones who pulled it off.

I've already addressed this question, which you've asked a number of ways, a number of times.

No you haven't. All you've done is deflect and change the subject.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

Like I said, it all comes down to, "but the government says so!"'

I've already pointed out the numerous holes above and in my previous responses. Your failure to acknowledge them doesn't change that fact.

No you haven't. You've merely attempted to point out any holes in my argument, and each time I've countered your response. Then you just changed the subject.

Typical Government Truthbot tactics.

lol. So says the guy who has made a highly generalized claim and can't provide the first shred of evidence to back it up. Truthers are all the same. Delusional in more ways than one.

Hey, if you Government Truthers can make highly generalized, evidence-free claims, so can I. You have no more evidence for your claims than I do mine. Two can play that game, sweetpea.

 

[SandEagle]

this thread sucks. what's up with the long quotes and responses? can we keep them to one or two sentences so that i can follow along?

 

[Abwx]

Didn`t somebody have a super long thread about WTC 7 who plagerized his math and as it turned out was rebukked and his math was debunked by members of this forum as not being credible...hmmmmm

Trolling as an escape route ?..

To this date no explanation has been given by the US gov.
and it s quite obvious why they are so embarrassed.

It was simply the "too much" in a carefuly engineered inside op.

For whatever reason an impactor was missing to strike this building
that was also full of explosives that couldnt be no more removed ,
so it was collapsed to conceal the proves as it was less risky to
give later erratic explanations than trying to remove the explosives.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Trolling as an escape route ?..

To this date no explanation has been given by the US gov.
and it s quite obvious why they are so embarrassed.

It was simply the "too much" in a carefuly engineered inside op.

For whatever reason an impactor was missing to strike this building
that was also full of explosives that couldnt be no more removed ,
so it was collapsed to conceal the proves as it was less risky to
give later erratic explanations than trying to remove the explosives.

:biggrin:

 

[Capt Caveman]

The same inconclusive evidence you have.

Correction: Your explanation has no factual basis or evidence, other than evidence strategically provided by the government, one of the primary suspects in the case.

Not very credible, sweetie.

The U.S. government did it, without a doubt.

Only moron Government Truthers believe otherwise.

Good question. Where's yours?

Completely speculative. Where is your evidence?

LOL, nonsense. The conspiracy theory you subscribe to only features what, 19 hijackers and a few terrorist mastermind super villains? If 25-50 Al-Qaeda amateurs could do it and keep it a secret, so could the U.S. government, especially if the original hijackers were actually secretly and unknowingly working for the U.S. government.

Either way, you have no evidence for your claims.

A small department in the U.S. government would be the U.S. government, moron.

Anyway, the CIA could have easily pulled off the 9/11 attacks.

LOL, if it's so easy, why don't the Chinese have exact replicas of all of our equipment and tech?

How do you know they haven't? Because the TV hasn't reported it? LOL.

So, if you admit that countries don't know "everything", why would you assume they would have inside intelligence on a Top Secret false flag operation?

Interesting. So foreign intelligence services have the capability to know all about our intelligence agency's most secretive operations, but our intelligence agency, which is the most advanced in the world, couldn't seem to locate a single man with severe health issues?

LOL. You can't possibly believe this pablum you're spewing, can you?

At least, that's what the government claims. Of course, there's not a shred of evidence that Osama bin Laden was killed in the raid last year. There's not a shred of evidence he was even there.

It all comes down to, "but the government says so!".

Of course there isn't, since the government controlled the investigation and follow-up inquiry.

Like I said, if the Mafia controlled the investigation into a diamond heist, they would make damn sure they didn't allow anyone to see evidence that they were the ones who pulled it off.

No you haven't. All you've done is deflect and change the subject.

Like I said, it all comes down to, "but the government says so!"'

No you haven't. You've merely attempted to point out any holes in my argument, and each time I've countered your response. Then you just changed the subject.

Typical Government Truthbot tactics.

Hey, if you Government Truthers can make highly generalized, evidence-free claims, so can I. You have no more evidence for your claims than I do mine. Two can play that game, sweetpea.

Trolling at it's finest!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Trolling as an escape route ?..

To this date no explanation has been given by the US gov.
and it s quite obvious why they are so embarrassed.

That is incorrect:

Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (NIST NCSTAR 1A)

http://www.nist.gov/manuscript-publication-search.cfm?pub_id=861610

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

The same inconclusive evidence you have.

Correction: Your explanation has no factual basis or evidence, other than evidence strategically provided by the government, one of the primary suspects in the case.

Not very credible, sweetie.

My evidence is documented and comes from a wide variety of sources including the media, intelligence agencies around the world, independent reporting, and a multitude of books written by various authors on the subject. Your lame attempts to discount that evidence by exclaiming, with absolutely no proof once again, that's it's all just government disinformation is completely assinine and is little more than a shoddy excuse to ignore anything that doesn't fit into your worldview.

Your evidence is...well, it doesn't exist, written or otherwise, except in that pointy little head of yours. And even your pointy little head with its pea-sized brain can't produce the first compelling statement that can be fact-checked for veracity.

Come back when you have an argument that doesn't employ every logical fallacy in the book, sugar britches. Until then you are just furiously pissing into a down-wind hurricane.

 

[Juror No. 8]

My evidence is documented and comes from a wide variety of sources including the media...

Yes, the controlled, corporate media, otherwise known as a mouthpiece for government propaganda.

Not very convincing.

...intelligence agencies around the world...

And of course, none of these agencies had any control over the investigation into the 9/11 attacks, as the U.S. government did, so their findings are irrelevant.

...independent reporting...

How do you know they are truly independent?

...and a multitude of books written by various authors on the subject.

So what? I've got books on my side too. Your authors are no more authoritative than mine are.

Your lame attempts to discount that evidence by exclaiming, with absolutely no proof once again, that's it's all just government disinformation is completely assinine and is little more than a shoddy excuse to ignore anything that doesn't fit into your worldview.

Again, you have no evidence, all you have is whatever the government claims. The whole Al-Qaeda/Osama bin Laden conspiracy theory you worship is all based on, "but the government says so", and nothing more.

Your evidence is...well, it doesn't exist, written or otherwise, except in that pointy little head of yours. And even your pointy little head with its pea-sized brain can't produce the first compelling statement that can be fact-checked for veracity.

The same thing goes for the U.S. government's statements with regard to 9/11. Do you honestly think you have some way of verifying whether or not they told the truth about 9/11?

LOL.

Come back when you have an argument that doesn't employ every logical fallacy in the book, sugar britches. Until then you are just furiously pissing into a down-wind hurricane.

Not really. This is effortless for me. All you've advanced so far is the same, tired Government Truther responses I've seen for the last ten years. It always comes down to, "but, but, but... the government and media says so!". Sorry, but now that I'm here, that's not going to work anymore. Those days are over.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Yes, the controlled, corporate media, otherwise known as a mouthpiece for government propaganda.

Not very convincing.

What's not convincing is that broken record reply of yours concerning the media. Provide some proof of that claim or simpy STFU. I won't hold my breath though because you haven't produced any proof of any other drivel you've posted thus far.

 

[Juror No. 8]

What's not convincing is that broken record reply of yours concerning the media. Provide some proof of that claim or simpy STFU. I won't hold my breath though because you haven't produced any proof of any other drivel you've posted thus far.

LOL, you're right, the profit-seeking corporate media would never lie to or mislead the American people to drum up support for a foreign war! LOL! That's never happened before! Everything the media and government says is 100 percent truthful. LOL!

Government truther religion FTW!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

LOL, you're right, the profit-seeking corporate media would never lie to or mislead the American people to drum up support for a foreign war! LOL! That's never happened before! Everything the media and government says is 100 percent truthful. LOL!

Government truther religion FTW!

Prove that the media colluded to mislead and lie to us all in the matter of 9/11. Until then all you've got is a bunch of furious handwaving accompanied by specious arguments and absolutely nothing else. Even if you did manage to provde the media mislead everyone it still wouldn't prove whatever vague and as yet unfleshed-out belief you hold. But that's what all truthers are really about, aren't they - lots of hot air and nothing really concrete in the matter? aka FUDspreaders. Keep spreading your meaningless FUD kiddo.

 

[Juror No. 8]

Prove that the media colluded to mislead and lie to us all in the matter of 9/11.

No, you need to first prove that they told the truth. It's your conspiracy theory, not mine.

Until then all you've got is a bunch of furious handwaving accompanied by specious arguments and absolutely nothing else. Even if you did manage to provde the media mislead everyone it still wouldn't prove whatever vague and as yet unfleshed-out belief you hold. But that's what all truthers are really about, aren't they - lots of hot air and nothing really concrete in the matter? aka FUDspreaders. Keep spreading your meaningless FUD kiddo.

Looks like I've got enough to keep you running around in circles, though. You government truthers are all the same in that regard.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally Posted by Abwx
Trolling as an escape route ?..

To this date no explanation has been given by the US gov.
and it s quite obvious why they are so embarrassed.

That is incorrect:

Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster (NIST NCSTAR 1A) -- as posted by TastesLikeChicken

http://www.nist.gov/manuscript-publi...?pub_id=861610