Is Israeli a US ally or political liability?

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Israel gives back land they want more and more and more. Its not about land its about extermination and hatred. They want the jews out of there. The land land stuff are just smoke screen.

 

[kylebisme]

Hey Liu, any chance you could post a map outlining what you consider to be the boarders of Israel?

 

[Baasha]

American has no permanent friends or enemies. We do, however, like other countries, have permanent self interests.

Wow, excellent point. And don't forget the hypocrisy of pretending to "stand with our allies". I wonder if these vermin go to school to become such professional hypocrites.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Hey Liu, any chance you could post a map outlining what you consider to be the boarders of Israel?

Don`tn listen to Kyle!!!
No matter what you post he will post some bogus link that contradicts whatever you say!!

Kyle is the one who got owned in his own 9/11 conspiracvy thread!
In fact Kyle was caught using somebody elses math to say that he understood the physics concerning the building collapsing!!

sad but true,,,

 

[Lemon law]

I don't see why we are wasting so much time talking about the past, when the US has to decide if Israel is an overall Asset or liability some time in the near future.

And for that matter, we can't talk about Israeli as a single entity. Because its mostly only Israeli extremists that are opposed to a Palestinian State.

So even if the USA deserts Israeli extremists, it will still be an Israeli ally, because then the USA will be more in tune with Israeli moderates.

And then we can look at it another way and ask would Israel ever regard the USA as an enemy? Because the US track record has been quite different, as the USA has mostly been the ONLY international entity that has saved Israel from international condemnation.

And now that a Palestinian State looks ever more certain in 2011, Israel demands the USA go against world consensus once again. And this time, and partly because Netanyuhu would not even grant the Obama requested settlement freeze, I expect when Israel demands the US blank check US veto of a Palestinian State, this time instead of voting the US will abstain. And thereby let the rest of the world vote to legitimize a Palestinian State.

With any ally, there are limits beyond where other allies will back them. In short if Israel wants to be totally unreasonable, they will find themselves totally alone,

 

[zhangjohn]

United States now have saudi, Iraq, Egypt, Turkey, and Afghan. That's enough to control the whole Middle East and oil. Do you still need Israel? No.

Abandoning Israel, show more equity on ME's conflict, Muslim's attitude will change. You will get rid of the Muslin's hatred and the nightmare of terrorist attacks.

Abandon Israel,American goverment will get rid of Jews banker's control. If they still want American protect Israel, they have to beg, they have to follow your command. The situation will change. American govement is not the banker's tool, but the Jews bankers will be your tools. Else American will close their eyes when Israel's neighbor beat him. That's less moral, but more cost-efficient.

 

[Infohawk]

Abandoning Israel, show more equity on ME's conflict, Muslim's attitude will change. You will get rid of the Muslin's hatred and the nightmare of terrorist attacks.

No it won't. They kill people over books and drawings. Israel is just one of many excuses.

Abandon Israel,American goverment will get rid of Jews banker's control.

Please tell me more about these Jewish bankers. In what way do they control America?

 

[zhangjohn]

One more question. I don't understand why European and Muslim are all against Jews? only because religion? that's hard to image, because most chinese have no religion. In chinese history, there is no anti-jews event, the jews come to china in ancient time are all assimilated.

The only reason I can image is jealous. Because they are too clever and rich.
The Jews intelligence is very high, but their political wisdom looks not as much as their intelligence.

Jews, welcome to china!

 

[Karl Agathon]

No it won't. They kill people over books and drawings. Israel is just one of many excuses.


Please tell me more about these Jewish bankers. In what way do they control America?

im also interested in these Jewish bankers and their control over America. Do they also control the weather too?

 

[EagleKeeper]

For some, the Jews are considered to be responsible for all the world's problems.

If it was not for using the Jews as an excuse; they might have to look in the mirror. That would be a drastic shock - to see thine enemy and realize who it is.

 

[EagleKeeper]

If the Jews are such a liability to the US; then why are all the radical Muslims targetting Russia, Asia, Europe and fellow Arabs?

 

[Abwx]

im also interested in these Jewish bankers and their control over America. Do they also control the weather too?

Please tell me more about these Jewish bankers. In what way do they control America?

Lol....
The FED is owned by private banks....

Chart 1 reveals the linear connection between the Rothschilds and the Bank of England, and the London banking houses which ultimately control the Federal Reserve Banks through their stockholdings of bank stock and their subsidiary firms in New York. The two principal Rothschild representatives in New York, J. P. Morgan Co., and Kuhn,Loeb & Co. were the firms which set up the Jekyll Island Conference at which the Federal Reserve Act was drafted, who directed the subsequent successful campaign to have the plan enacted into law by Congress, and who purchased the controlling amounts of stock in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in 1914.


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

 

[airdata]

where's the poll?

I just want to cast my vote anonymously in case they are monitoring this thread.

 

[Lemon law]

If the Jews are such a liability to the US; then why are all the radical Muslims targetting Russia, Asia, Europe and fellow Arabs?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, CC, you ask a somewhat biased question because not all Muslim grievances are directed as Israel. And for that matter, in places like Afghanistan and Iraq where we are trying to dominate Large Muslims populations, yes Muslims want the US gone from their regions. And the same is largely true of Russia, much of the hostilities in Muslim regions come from from Russia tightening its grip of loosely held largely Muslim autonomous regions.
As for Muslim problems in Europe, first the Europeans invited them in and now treat them like second class citizens. It does not matter what the ethnicity, its works the same all over the word.

But the real US answer lies in your distorted word choices, as you assume the government of Israel is the same as the word Jew. Which appears to be a deliberate attempt to evade the real question.

But to somewhat address the question now, in 1948 Israel may have been able to claim Arab antisemitism as the sole motivator, even though Zionist terrorism in the British Mandate was already well established. But now the entire mid-east region has amply reasons to hate the policies of the State of Israel, while at the same time various Arab nations in the region have long established friendly relations with various individual Jews.

The other thing to point out to Common Courtesy, is that he ignores any hope and redemption. Because if the policies of the Israeli State change, we can all hope it can become an accepted and peace part of the mid-east. And what is now just the down
payment on Mid-east Israeli acceptance is a Palestinian state.

But if Common Courtesy wants to take a hard line and say its either Israel or the Arabs, then there is no longer any argument. Because its a no brainer, we must side with the greatest good for the greatest number in the some 278 million mid-east Arabs, as for the some 5.6 Million Israeli Jews, surely there are other places to send them as we say better luck next time finding acceptance in your new region. With a few hints Israel should learn from its past mistakes.

 

[EagleKeeper]

europe invited the Muslis in. When the Muslims did not assimilate and then tried to rework the European system; Europe balked. Then the terrorism starts.

It seems that if the world will not adapt to the Muslim way, the terror is started to weaken the system by fear.

Because its a no brainer, we must side with the greatest good for the greatest number in the some 278 million mid-east Arabs, as for the some 5.6 Million Israeli Jews, surely there are other places to send them as we say better luck next time finding acceptance in your new region.

As you say, there are plenty of places to send them. Most Arab countries have rejected forcefully the Palestinians when the became refugess from their and Arab actions.

So where should they be sent where they will be outside the influence of the Arab states and able to start fresh, learning from their lessons.

After all the Palestinians never wanted any state nor would the Arabs let them until they realized that they could not wipe out Israel.

So instead of trying for peaceful relations, the Palestinians turned to terror. Not to justify a state, but just to be a thorn in the side of Israel; knowing that their actions would be protected by the Arabs bloc.

What do the Arab states have to offer us as an ally? They have continually demonstrated that they do not want the US around unless it serves their interests/self preservation.

Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Libya, the gulf States.

They want the US protection/force to compenstate for outside intentions.

 

[Abwx]

europe invited the Muslis in. When the Muslims did not assimilate and then tried to rework the European system; Europe balked.

First sentence and already a big innaccuracy...

European states refused to assimilate the muslims as soon
as they started getting good degrees.

For the record, i live in europe, and i know numerous
highly qualified muslims with Phd that were utterly
rejected in every single work they applied for...

In this respect, they would have been very successfull
if ever they applied in the US where there s not this kind
of behaviour when it comes to choosing an employee...

 

[kylebisme]

After all the Palestinians never wanted any state nor would the Arabs let them until they realized that they could not wipe out Israel.

Can you provide any evidence to support this claim?

 

[EagleKeeper]

When did the Palestinians first push any type of statehood?

Under Arafat and after he was kicked out of a bunch of Arab countries.

While the Arabs controlled the West Bank and Gaza; never was there a peep for statehood.

 

[EagleKeeper]

First sentence and already a big innaccuracy...

European states refused to assimilate the muslims as soon
as they started getting good degrees.

For the record, i live in europe, and i know numerous
highly qualified muslims with Phd that were utterly
rejected in every single work they applied for...

In this respect, they would have been very successfull
if ever they applied in the US where there s not this kind
of behaviour when it comes to choosing an employee...

Were Muslims granted visas? If so, they were invited in by the host country.

 

[Infohawk]

Lol....
The FED is owned by private banks....

Chart 1 reveals the linear connection between the Rothschilds and the Bank of England, and the London banking houses which ultimately control the Federal Reserve Banks through their stockholdings of bank stock and their subsidiary firms in New York. The two principal Rothschild representatives in New York, J. P. Morgan Co., and Kuhn,Loeb & Co. were the firms which set up the Jekyll Island Conference at which the Federal Reserve Act was drafted, who directed the subsequent successful campaign to have the plan enacted into law by Congress, and who purchased the controlling amounts of stock in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in 1914.


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

Wow this is some amazing information you have. What a valuable learning experience for the posters on this board.

So please tell me more specifically. So the Bank of England was completely controlled by the Rothschilds? The Rothschilds then made sure that their children were the only ones working at banks and the federal reserves? Or did they require that only jews could work at the banks?

 

[Lemon law]

Were Muslims granted visas? If so, they were invited in by the host country.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What a wholesale CC distortion to counter the position of abwx. The point is and remains, even as various European lost their Muslim holding, those Muslims that supported them in their former colonial holdings were granted European entry Visas, not just after the former European colonies were kaput but largely before.

The point is and remains, its European Xenophobia that explains why Muslims are not first class citizens in Europe. But oddly enough, the resistance is mainly expressed by second and third generation Muslim immigrants youth, who grow up with the reality they are discriminated against in their new land.

But in terms of the entire world, even Israel experiences the same backfire, as children of mainly Russian Israeli immigrants are signing up to becoming Nazi skinheads.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,504803,00.html

Its may not be the best link I could find, but it will do for a Start.

 

[Lemon law]

For once I agree with the position of Infohawk, Antisemitism has been a force through history, but the notion that there is a Jewish conspiracy that controls the world is entirely bogus.

But to turn the question around to the current Israeli Palestinian issue, its also bogus to say that Israelis in compensation of past antisemitism, should be allowed to practice equally reprehensible discrimination against Palestinians.

But that folks is what we have in Israel, even as we realize two wrongs don't make a single right, the prevailing practice on all sides is that tit for that violence in the whole damn practice will somehow establish the principle that three wrongs will instead add up to a right.

 

[kylebisme]

When did the Palestinians first push any type of statehood?

The 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine was the first big push, in response to the British being slow to live up to their agreement under the 1920 League of Nations mandate which divided up the Ottoman Empire and provisionally reconnoitered Palestine as an independent nation, along with Iraq and Syria.

Under Arafat and after he was kicked out of a bunch of Arab countries.

Arafat was pushing for Palestinian independence well before that, as the Wiki page on him explains:

As Arafat began to develop friendships with Palestinian refugees (some of whom he knew also from his Cairo days), he and the others gradually founded the group that became known as Fatah. The exact date for the establishment of Fatah is unknown. However, in 1959, the group's existence was attested in the pages of a Palestinian nationalist magazine, Filastununa Nida al-Hayat (Our Palestine, The Call of Life), which was written and edited by Abu Jihad.

I'm still curious, how have you derived your claims to the contrary?

 

[0roo0roo]

One more question. I don't understand why European and Muslim are all against Jews? only because religion? that's hard to image, because most chinese have no religion. In chinese history, there is no anti-jews event, the jews come to china in ancient time are all assimilated.

The only reason I can image is jealous. Because they are too clever and rich.
The Jews intelligence is very high, but their political wisdom looks not as much as their intelligence.

Jews, welcome to china!

you should know better as a chinese, for the same reason chinese are hated in many asian countries.

places like indonesia and filipines they are scape goats, in riots chinese get targeted.

and that is just for the stereotype that they are rich.

imagine if the additional burden of being the killer of their god/prophet was applied, imagine the potential for hate. when other religions basically crib off another religion for a start it has to result in denouncing the original version, they can't be both right after all, and the originals continued existence only continues to be a thorn in the side of the newer version religion.

 

[zhangjohn]

Please tell me more about these Jewish bankers. In what way do they control America?

In china, there is book called :currency war. It describe the US dolar history as a conspire of Eroupe and America bankers. Its viewpoint is just like this:

Lol....
The FED is owned by private banks....

Chart 1 reveals the linear connection between the Rothschilds and the Bank of England, and the London banking houses which ultimately control the Federal Reserve Banks through their stockholdings of bank stock and their subsidiary firms in New York. The two principal Rothschild representatives in New York, J. P. Morgan Co., and Kuhn,Loeb & Co. were the firms which set up the Jekyll Island Conference at which the Federal Reserve Act was drafted, who directed the subsequent successful campaign to have the plan enacted into law by Congress, and who purchased the controlling amounts of stock in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in 1914.


http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

I don't know if it was true. But it's much interesting than most novels. This book is very famous in China, and the story has been spreaded by radio, internet. So, many chinese think that might be true.