IS Israel sending the wrong message?

[Stoneburner]

Let's put the conflict in perspective... there is terrorism which is basically using subterfuge and stealth because of a massive imbalance in firepower. What most jews complain about is terrorism CENTERED ON civillians. SO why is it if two soldiers are captured they go buckwild? Just simple law and economic concepts of deterrence dictate that such actions will encourage CIVILLIAN targetting and discourage valid military targetting.


We all need to face facts, terrorism is not inherently evil. Indians used terrorism to get rid of the british, irish used terrorism to .. almost get rid of the british.... jews used terrorism to get rid of the british (pattern?)... While there is some evidence jews have in some cases targetted civillians or allowed them to die (if you deny this you dont know the fully history), there is no official policy of doing so unlike with some of the arab terroristgroups. So israel's deterrence model almost seems pointed towards havings civillians targetted so they can mantain the small margin of moral superiority (if any).

I honestly dont see anything wrong with the terrorist targetting of military buildlings, personnel, etc. There are many examples of corrupt regimes that require it. But Israel's activities are baffling unless you are as cynical as myself.

 

[Jaskalas]

The message should be surrender or die.

It cannot be simpler than that, and is how every war in history was fought before the UN.

 

[Aimster]

One day the Arabs will defeat Israel's forces.

That day will be the end of the Arabs and possibly the world.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Aimster
One day the Arabs will defeat Israel's forces.

That day will be the end of the Arabs and possibly the world.

exactly!!
BTW--you have a way with words!

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
The message should be surrender or die.

It cannot be simpler than that, and is how every war in history was fought before the UN.

cough bull**** cough

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Aimster
One day the Arabs will defeat Israel's forces.

That day will be the end of the Arabs and possibly the world.

For what purpose do you put forth these thoughts? Who can use this information?

 

[Jaskalas]

Your answer is what sandorski? I'm waiting

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Aimster
One day the Arabs will defeat Israel's forces.

That day will be the end of the Arabs and possibly the world.

For what purpose do you put forth these thoughts? Who can use this information?

Come on now Moonbeam... you know I dig you... but for you to ask such a question is ironic considering many here can't even decipher your posts. 🙂

 

[Stoneburner]

I was looking for a discussion of deterrence and proper forms of "terrorism" not partisan cliches. Fact is this latest round of "escalation" is like everything else... pretty meaningless. NOthing ever changes in the region.

 

[Jaskalas]

The ultimate deterrence is knowing you and your family are going to die if you wage war on another country.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
The ultimate deterrence is knowing you and your family are going to die if you wage war on another country.

Lebanese Death Toll Continues to Rise

Did those people "wage war" against another country?

Did those civilians who Israel murdered on a Gaza beach "wage war" on another country?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
I was looking for a discussion of deterrence and proper forms of "terrorism" not partisan cliches. Fact is this latest round of "escalation" is like everything else... pretty meaningless. NOthing ever changes in the region.

Aimster seems to think the changes will be dramatic.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
I was looking for a discussion of deterrence and proper forms of "terrorism" not partisan cliches. Fact is this latest round of "escalation" is like everything else... pretty meaningless. NOthing ever changes in the region.

Aimster seems to think the changes will be dramatic.

I hope dramatic change does not occur soon, because dramatic change unfortunately begins often with a dramatic number of deaths.

 

[Zorba]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
The ultimate deterrence is knowing you and your family are going to die if you wage war on another country.

Lebanese Death Toll Continues to Rise

Did those people "wage war" against another country?

Did those civilians who Israel murdered on a Gaza beach "wage war" on another country?

Their country did! Say the conservative party in Canada came in and kidnapped a couple of our troops. What do you think the US response would. I would hope to god it would be overwhelming force. It sure as hell wouldn?t be ?He guys, would you mind giving our men back, if not that is okay, we wont do anything? oh and please shot some more rockets at us.?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
The ultimate deterrence is knowing you and your family are going to die if you wage war on another country.

Lebanese Death Toll Continues to Rise

Did those people "wage war" against another country?

Did those civilians who Israel murdered on a Gaza beach "wage war" on another country?

They failed to police their own people, and in effect they support their fighters. There was massive celebration in the streets of Lebanon the day they attacked Israel.

We fire bombed Tokyo in WW2 for a reason; there must be brutal action to force a dedicated enemy to surrender their hostilities. If you do not force them to surrender, you maintain their ability to make war on you.

 

[AgentJean]

Originally posted by: BBond
.

Did those people "wage war" against another country?

[/quote]


Remember that when there is a mushroom cloud over San Fransisco or a bio attack on a new york sub way.

What about the people in the WTC in 2001?

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
The ultimate deterrence is knowing you and your family are going to die if you wage war on another country.

Lebanese Death Toll Continues to Rise

Did those people "wage war" against another country?

Did those civilians who Israel murdered on a Gaza beach "wage war" on another country?

They failed to police their own people, and in effect they support their fighters. There was massive celebration in the streets of Lebanon the day they attacked Israel.

We fire bombed Tokyo in WW2 for a reason; there must be brutal action to force a dedicated enemy to surrender their hostilities. If you do not force them to surrender, you maintain their ability to make war on you.

****** the Middle East. The US needs to pack-up and go away. Use the money that we would spend to keep our military over there and instead provide subsidiaries to develop other fuel sources. In a few years, they will be broke camel herders again and won't have the funds to blow each other and the rest of the world up.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: brandonbull


****** the Middle East. The US needs to pack-up and go away. Use the money that we would spend to keep our military over there and instead provide subsidiaries to develop other fuel sources. In a few years, they will be broke camel herders again and won't have the funds to blow each other and the rest of the world up.

Or they will get tired of killing themselves and come over here with box cutters and kill thousasnds of innocent civilians by flying planes into tall buildings.. The middle east needs a good house cleaning...

 

[irwincur]

Technically, jumping over the border and killing civilians is bad enough - kidnapping soldiers is an act of war.

What if Mexican migrants started capturing our soldiers and Mexico turned a blind eye. What would happen?

Well, let me remind you. There is some history there. Pancho Villa did just this. The US then proceeded to send an entire army in Mexico for a period of three years chasing him around. If it happened today, the response would be the same.

The fact is, jumping a border and committing an act of war get these results. I really hope that Hezbollah is not whining about their current predicament - they put themselves into it.

 

[Thump553]

The Israelis are going buckwild because George Bush is doing absolutely nothing to try to restrain them. Look at his only comment on the situation that he made yesterday-it was 100% on the side of Israel. Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct when she blasted Bush a new a**hole yesterday for his atrocious mishandling/neglect of the Israel situation.

I hate to sound like one of those broken records who blame Bush (or Clinton) for everything that goes wrong in the world, but I strongly feel his rudderless direction here has (and will) cause many deaths and much unnecessary suffering.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: Thump553
The Israelis are going buckwild because George Bush is doing absolutely nothing to try to restrain them. Look at his only comment on the situation that he made yesterday-it was 100% on the side of Israel. Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct when she blasted Bush a new a**hole yesterday for his atrocious mishandling/neglect of the Israel situation.

I hate to sound like one of those broken records who blame Bush (or Clinton) for everything that goes wrong in the world, but I strongly feel his rudderless direction here has (and will) cause many deaths and much unnecessary suffering.

All part of their bigger plan...

Don't believe that everything they do (or don't do) is due to incompetence.

 

[MoFunk]

Originally posted by: Thump553
The Israelis are going buckwild because George Bush is doing absolutely nothing to try to restrain them. Look at his only comment on the situation that he made yesterday-it was 100% on the side of Israel. Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct when she blasted Bush a new a**hole yesterday for his atrocious mishandling/neglect of the Israel situation.

I hate to sound like one of those broken records who blame Bush (or Clinton) for everything that goes wrong in the world, but I strongly feel his rudderless direction here has (and will) cause many deaths and much unnecessary suffering.

I blame the Bush andministration, but not for how it is handling it now. It was the Bush camp that time and time again talked Isreal into bending over and taking it. Just give Gaza and all will be fine right? BS! I think Isreal is tired of our ball-less wimp leaders telling them to take it up the pooper!

 

[FuzzyBee]

Originally posted by: Thump553
The Israelis are going buckwild because George Bush is doing absolutely nothing to try to restrain them. Look at his only comment on the situation that he made yesterday-it was 100% on the side of Israel. Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct when she blasted Bush a new a**hole yesterday for his atrocious mishandling/neglect of the Israel situation.

I hate to sound like one of those broken records who blame Bush (or Clinton) for everything that goes wrong in the world, but I strongly feel his rudderless direction here has (and will) cause many deaths and much unnecessary suffering.

How long should the US have to restrain Israel, who is continually attacked? Turning the other cheek may be good in practice, but all it gets you is a high moral standing and a very sore cheek, or, if the Muslim extremists had their way, no cheek at all.

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: Thump553
The Israelis are going buckwild because George Bush is doing absolutely nothing to try to restrain them. Look at his only comment on the situation that he made yesterday-it was 100% on the side of Israel. Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct when she blasted Bush a new a**hole yesterday for his atrocious mishandling/neglect of the Israel situation.

I hate to sound like one of those broken records who blame Bush (or Clinton) for everything that goes wrong in the world, but I strongly feel his rudderless direction here has (and will) cause many deaths and much unnecessary suffering.

Yea, I think I saw a video of George and Jeb Bush jumping over the Israel border kindnapping and killing soldiers...

This just in!!! Check it out. Someone on yourtube just added a video of the smiling Bushs launching rockets from gaza..

Yep thoses Bush.. Its all their fault!!!

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: Thump553
The Israelis are going buckwild because George Bush is doing absolutely nothing to try to restrain them. Look at his only comment on the situation that he made yesterday-it was 100% on the side of Israel. Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct when she blasted Bush a new a**hole yesterday for his atrocious mishandling/neglect of the Israel situation.

I hate to sound like one of those broken records who blame Bush (or Clinton) for everything that goes wrong in the world, but I strongly feel his rudderless direction here has (and will) cause many deaths and much unnecessary suffering.

Yea, I think I saw a video of George and Jeb Bush jumping over the Israel border kindnapping and killing soldiers...

This just in!!! Check it out. Someone on yourtube just added a video of the smiling Bushs launching rockets from gaza..

Yep thoses Bush.. Its all their fault!!!

That's just simply ignorant. bush refused to engage the parties in this conflict prior to the conflict and now he's absolutely clueless as to how to engage them now. bush likes to play hardball, use tough guy cowboy language but now we need someone with a BRAIN instead of slogans and that someone is NOWHERE to be found in this adminstration.