Is is possible to be a member of PETA and pro choice at the same time?

[daveymark]

If one doesn't believe animals should be killed or put through any kind of pain, how can one advocate abortion?

 

[3chordcharlie]

Hypocrisy knows no bounds. I think a more basic question is: "Is it possible to be a member of PETA if you are a remotely rational person?"

 

[Infohawk]

Do first trimester fetuses feel pain?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: daveymark
If one doesn't believe animals should be killed or put through any kind of pain, how can one advocate abortion?

You're trying to give weak monded people way too much credit.

How many animals have you seen do Abortions on other animals???

 

[glugglug]

What does one have anything to do with the other?

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: daveymark
If one doesn't believe animals should be killed or put through any kind of pain, how can one advocate abortion?

I don't see the connection unless you assume abortion kills a living sentient body and causes pain. So I guess for a pro-life person, it would be hard to visualize.

 

[Kibbo]

First off, I do not beleive the following, just providing a rational argument for the PETA folk, since they are not here.

Animals are incapable of rational thought.
Only those who are capable for rational thought can be responsible for their actions.
Humans are capable of rational thought.
Humans are responsible for every morally "wrong" thing they have ever done.
(Possible, though not neccessary)Humans are responsible for every morally "wrong" action comitted by humanity.
Thus, animals are morally superior beings, by virtue of their innocence.
Morally superior beings should hold greater moral weight in ethical decision-making.

You could pose a similar argument using Christian values by incorporating Original Sin.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

PETA only seems to care about non-human animals. I doubt they have any objection to abortion unless you're doing it solely to enjoy a little human veal. They might have a problem with that.

 

[tellsek]

Animals are incapable of rational thought.
Only those who are capable for rational thought can be responsible for their actions


Morality is the concern with the distinction between right and wrong
Since animals are incapable of rational thought they are not concerned with any such distinctions
Animals are not morally superior, they are simply amoral

 

[wchou]

Problem is humans eat fish, dogs, cats, chicken, cows, etc. anything less intelligent including chimps. PETA convince people to go vegetable because they feel sorry for the animals, some people do and it's working well. There must be quite a bit of donation going on including celebrity who has more money to burn then us combined.

 

[Kibbo]

Originally posted by: tellsek
Animals are incapable of rational thought.
Only those who are capable for rational thought can be responsible for their actions


Morality is the concern with the distinction between right and wrong
Since animals are incapable of rational thought they are not concerned with any such distinctions
Animals are not morally superior, they are simply amoral

I never said the argument was airtight, if it were I'd accept it. It's just what a reasonable person could believe. No one on this board can say that all of their beliefs are perfectly logically consistent. Even those who strive for it.

 

[jhu]

Originally posted by: daveymark
If one doesn't believe animals should be killed or put through any kind of pain, how can one advocate abortion?

because they're hungry

 

[GoPackGo]

If PETA thinks abortion is ok, then eating eggs must be ok too.

 

[3chordcharlie]

People for the
Eating of
Tasty
Animals

That's my kind of club!

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: daveymark
If one doesn't believe animals should be killed or put through any kind of pain, how can one advocate abortion?

Slippery slope argument. Dismissed.

 

[Pacemaker]

Why do most Democrats believe in preserving the environment for future generations, but also believe that removing future generations is ok (Pro Choice)? Why is that most republicans are pro-life because killing is wrong, but are also for the death penalty. Everyone is a paradox you just have to look hard enough to find it.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: tellsek
Animals are incapable of rational thought.
Only those who are capable for rational thought can be responsible for their actions


Morality is the concern with the distinction between right and wrong
Since animals are incapable of rational thought they are not concerned with any such distinctions
Animals are not morally superior, they are simply amoral

ok, so you're saying that a 2-3 month old fetus is capable of rational thought? If so, then how can you kill it, its a human being capable of rational thought. If not, then it's more like an innocent animal, it can't think on its own therefore it shouldn't be killed. The whole PETA organization makes no sense. We have eaten animals our entire existance, why should we stop now? How is us hunting animals any worst than a lion hunting it's pray? Just because we do it better? Come on, it's called a food chain, and we are on top.

 

[tellsek]

ok, so you're saying that a 2-3 month old fetus is capable of rational thought? If so, then how can you kill it, its a human being capable of rational thought. If not, then it's more like an innocent animal, it can't think on its own therefore it shouldn't be killed. The whole PETA organization makes no sense. We have eaten animals our entire existance, why should we stop now? How is us hunting animals any worst than a lion hunting it's pray? Just because we do it better? Come on, it's called a food chain, and we are on top.

Where am I saying a 2-3 month old fetus is capable of rational thought? I was simply countering an argument that animals are morally superior to humans by virtue of innocence. My argument simply states an animal is amoral, or without any morals. It neither states nor implies anything else.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: Pacemaker
Why do most Democrats believe in preserving the environment for future generations, but also believe that removing future generations is ok (Pro Choice)? Why is that most republicans are pro-life because killing is wrong, but are also for the death penalty. Everyone is a paradox you just have to look hard enough to find it.

I would think republicans are pro life because killing an INNOCENT living being is wrong to them. Those who recieves the death penalty aren't innocent (outside of Illinois, anyway...)

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Do first trimester fetuses feel pain?

I see, so you think the pain reflex will help establish whether or not the unborn baby is a human. I guess that makes more sense, but there are humans who can't feel, and non-humans that can. Eh.

 

[AntiNazi]

Originally posted by: ntdz

How is us hunting animals any worst than a lion hunting it's pray? Just because we do it better? Come on, it's called a food chain, and we are on top.

um, im not sure if you know this, but that hamburger you ate today didnt come from a cow that was hunted.... peta cares about the MIStreatment of animals in the food (and other) industry. the only way to prevent yourself from supporting the meat industry and their quite unethical practices is to not buy (and therefore not consume) meat... thats the arguement... its not about life and death afaik, its about ethical treatment. hence the name of the organization....

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Do first trimester fetuses feel pain?

Yes.

Functioning neurological structures necessary for pain sensation are in place as early as 8 weeks, but certainly by 13-1/2 weeks...By 13-1/2 weeks, the entire sensory nervous system functions as a whole in all parts of the body (except in the skin or the back of the head) (7).

Source: Vincent J. Collins, Steven R. Zielinski, and Thomas J. Marzen, Fetal Pain and Abortion: The Medical Evidence, Studies in Law and Medicine, no. 18 (Chicago: American United for Life, Inc., 1984),p.7.

Originally posted by: TuxDave
I don't see the connection unless you assume abortion kills a living sentient body and causes pain. So I guess for a pro-life person, it would be hard to visualize.

Are you saying that animals are sentient, at least to a level exceeding a 9-month fetus?

 

[wchou]

Originally posted by: AntiNazi

Originally posted by: ntdz

How is us hunting animals any worst than a lion hunting it's pray? Just because we do it better? Come on, it's called a food chain, and we are on top.

um, im not sure if you know this, but that hamburger you ate today didnt come from a cow that was hunted.... peta cares about the MIStreatment of animals in the food (and other) industry. the only way to prevent yourself from supporting the meat industry and their quite unethical practices is to not buy (and therefore not consume) meat... thats the arguement... its not about life and death afaik, its about ethical treatment. hence the name of the organization....

There is no crueless ways to kill an animal, you either eat them or you don't.
I guess if one can do without, great but people were born meat eater like a drug addiction.
When they don't eat meat, they have side effect and the craving starts. Why are meat thought to be good, healthy and tasty? because most people say so?

 

[brotherkane]

I've been a vegetarian my whole life and know A LOT of vegetarians. None of them are pro-choice.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: daveymark
I would think republicans are pro life because killing an INNOCENT living being is wrong to them. Those who recieves the death penalty aren't innocent (outside of Illinois, anyway...)

In a perfect world maybe, but there have been FAR too many cases of how the death penalty has killed innocents/almost killed innocents for anyone to believe that ALL victims of the death penalty are guilty. Not to mention the added cost...

I'm pro-life and anti-death penalty, BTW, and I too have trouble seeing how you can be against one form of killing and for another.

Originally posted by: wchou
There is no crueless ways to kill an animal, you either eat them or you don't.
I guess if one can do without, great but people were born meat eater like a drug addiction.
When they don't eat meat, they have side effect and the craving starts. Why are meat thought to be good, healthy and tasty? because most people say so?

I don't know how it is for everyone else, but I can go from months of eating lots of meat to months of eating none or next to none with no real side effects and no cravings.