• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Is Iraq headed for more chaos?

BBond

Diamond Member
Probable results of next month's Iraqi elections from The Times of India.

Is Iraq headed for more chaos?

IANS[ FRIDAY, DECEMBER 24, 2004 09:59:15 AM ]

In less than five weeks, Iraqis hope to elect their own government. But before a single vote has been cast, the results are in. The Shiites have won.

Under the direction of the powerful Shiite Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, a broad electoral alliance was announced earlier this month, uniting all Shiite factions. With some 60 percent of the population, the Shiites are expected to vote en masse for the United Iraqi Alliance, guaranteeing its victory.

The Shiites intend to form a government committed to creating an Islamic state in Iraq. Its senior ranks will include men with close ties to the Shiite clerical regime in neighbouring Iran. According to the spokesman for the alliance, the first order of business for the new government will be to negotiate the withdrawal of all American and foreign troops.

Getting the Americans out is essential to the legitimacy of any claim to rule the country. The Sunni minority, which held power under the Baath regime, is the base of an anti-American insurgency clothed in nationalist and Islamist ideology. Sunni organizations threaten to boycott the election as an American-organized farce.

The Shiites, whose alliance includes a smattering of non-Shia elements, argue the vote is a means to the same end. "Elections are the ideal way to expel the occupier from Iraq," proclaimed a Shiite banner hung recently in Baghdad.

This is not what the Bush administration had in mind when it sent American soldiers charging into Iraq. Paul Wolfowitz assured the American people a month before the invasion that Iraqi Shiites are "completely different" from their Sunni brethren in Saudi Arabia, where the mullahs dictate so much of daily life. The Iraqis, he told an interviewer, "are by and large quite secular."

The Bush administration still mouths the confident belief that a secular democracy is being born in Iraq. But it has been evident for some time that by removing the Baath regime, the United States unleashed long-suppressed political forces that have very different aspirations.

Some now raise alarms that the election will create an Islamic republic of Iraq controlled by Iran. Jordan's King Abdullah told the Washington Post earlier this month that a million Iranians have crossed the border to vote and that the Iranian regime is flooding the country with money. "We've opened ourselves to a whole set of new problems that will not be limited to the borders of Iraq," he warned.

Longtime American observers of Iraq also voice those fears. "It will be a singular achievement of President Bush that he invaded Iraq for the purpose of turning the country over to the Iranians," Peter Galbraith, a former US ambassador who uncovered and documented Saddam's murderous campaigns against the Kurds, told me.

There are legitimate concerns about Iran's activities in Iraq. During Saddam's reign, Shiite organizations -- including two large parties, the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and Al-Dawa -- operated in exile from Iran. The Shiite militias were trained by Iran's Revolutionary Guards. Ayatollah Sistani is himself Iranian in origin, though he has lived in Iraq for most of his life.

"The Shia identity transcends national boundaries; it transcends ethnic boundaries," says William Beeman, head of Middle East studies at Brown University.

But Beeman and most other experts consider fears of an Iranian-style Islamic state, one ruled directly by the clergy, overdrawn. Sistani does not share Ayatollah Khomeini's views on clerical rule, though he clearly is not averse to playing a behind-the-scenes political role.

The immediate danger in Iraq may be not Islamic revolution but civil war. Sectarian violence between Sunni and Shiite is growing daily. It may only worsen if the Sunnis see the election as illegitimate. The Kurds fear a Shiite government will threaten their national autonomy. They are ready to break away from Iraq entirely.

The Bush administration has focused on the military campaign against the Sunni insurgency. It seems as ill-prepared for the political struggle as it is for warfare. "I've never seen an administration as divorced from reality as this one," says Ambassador Galbraith.

Soon, however, it may not matter what Americans think about Iraq.

 
Iraq, potentially the shortest Democracy ever, in the history of mankind. Their first act of Democracy will be in favor to never have another again?
 
Originally posted by: AnImuS
dumb move by the iraqis. We will just liberate them again in 10yrs. 🙂

At the current rate by that time we'll need someone to liberate us.

 
The Kurds fear a Shiite government will threaten their national autonomy. They are ready to break away from Iraq entirely.
If the Kurds want a Democratic Iraq, they should becomes a part of the Central Government in BAGHDAD...not some self-governing body outside the Iraqi federal government. If we want a strong Iraq, the federal government must be strong.


And I think pulling troops out of Iraq is a big mistake. Rather than have them in middle of Iraqi affairs, they should be relocated to the borders to prevent "flooding" of people into the country, and in order to serve as a warning to countries (such as Iran) that try to take advantage of Iraq in its current form. If the troops left the country, Iraq would be an fish swimming near a nest of eagles...
 
The parts of Iraq that are not controlled by us could have more chaos. What is certain is that we are not just going to pull out and let Iraq and that part of the world go at it. We will stabilize the region one way or another - even it comes down to razing every single city. It is in our national interests to have the Middle East be pro-America.
 
Dammit BBond, where have you been? This obviously cannot be true... good news is just pouring out of Iraq! Just ask Rip!
 
Originally posted by: HalosPuma
The parts of Iraq that are not controlled by us could have more chaos. What is certain is that we are not just going to pull out and let Iraq and that part of the world go at it. We will stabilize the region one way or another - even it comes down to razing every single city. It is in our national interests to have the Middle East be pro-America.

thats horrible. according to you, we might as well kill everyone and then send Americans to go and live there...

See your kinda of logic is wrong. To force a region to be "pro-America" because it benefits us. That is what the communists tried, and propping up pro-American regimes isn't going to "stablizie the region" unless we actively support the governments in attacking and killing their population....I wouldn't think you would actually supp: "- even it comes down to razing every single city

nevermind...
 
Originally posted by: jman19
Dammit BBond, where have you been? This obviously cannot be true... good news is just pouring out of Iraq! Just ask Rip!

You're right Jman19. I just don't know what's wrong with me.

I've got to stop reading the news and start ignoring the facts!

Insurgents continued their campaign against Iraqi officials on Sunday. Attackers gunned down Muhammad Abd al-Hussein, a member of a secular political party that has been strongly critical of Syria, in front of his house in Baghdad.

"We have lost today a hero killed by terrorists," said Mithal al-Alusi, the head of Mr. Hussein's party, the Democratic Party of the Iraqi Nation. "After he took part in the demonstration in front of the Syrian Embassy in Baghdad, he received death threats, and now he is killed." Gunmen also killed an Iraqi police colonel in Baghdad on Sunday, an Interior Ministry official said.

The head of Iraq's independent electoral commission, Abdul Hussein al-Hindawi, strongly criticized recent conversations between the Bush administration and Iraqi leaders about giving some high-level government positions to Sunni Arab politicians even if the Sunnis do poorly in the Jan. 30 election.

"Everything will be clear by voting and only the boxes will decide, according to the law, without any intervention," Mr. Hindawi said.

Link

 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: jman19
Dammit BBond, where have you been? This obviously cannot be true... good news is just pouring out of Iraq! Just ask Rip!

You're right Jman19. I just don't know what's wrong with me.

I've got to stop reading the news and start ignoring the facts!

if you want to learn from the best, you gotta watch Bush. or Rumsfeld... two of the masters
 
Originally posted by: magomago
The Kurds fear a Shiite government will threaten their national autonomy. They are ready to break away from Iraq entirely.
If the Kurds want a Democratic Iraq, they should becomes a part of the Central Government in BAGHDAD...not some self-governing body outside the Iraqi federal government. If we want a strong Iraq, the federal government must be strong.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ah, there's the rub - You see, the Kurds don't want to be part of a strong Iraq, They don't even
want to be any part of Iraq - period. They want to have their own country - Kurdistan, which would
be the northern territory of present Iraq, along with some sections of the countries that are now in
Southern Turkey and North Western Iran.

Why do you even think that they would support the continuance of any political party in Iraq that
want's to have authority over the Kurdish population ?
 
Originally posted by: magomago
The Kurds fear a Shiite government will threaten their national autonomy. They are ready to break away from Iraq entirely.
If the Kurds want a Democratic Iraq, they should becomes a part of the Central Government in BAGHDAD...not some self-governing body outside the Iraqi federal government. If we want a strong Iraq, the federal government must be strong.


The Kurds don't want a democratic Iraq as much as in that they want their own nation. Why do you think Turkey fought and killed 30,000 Kurdish fighters in the past 15 years ??


And I think pulling troops out of Iraq is a big mistake. Rather than have them in middle of Iraqi affairs, they should be relocated to the borders to prevent "flooding" of people into the country, and in order to serve as a warning to countries (such as Iran) that try to take advantage of Iraq in its current form. If the troops left the country, Iraq would be an fish swimming near a nest of eagles...

We can't even control our own borders for Christ sake ! As far is Iran goes they don't even have to worry cause the Shia Iraqis who comprise 60% of the population and who had their religion surpressed by seculare Saddam and his sunnis are going to vote in a Islamic Revolutionary Council party in big numbers.
 
Back
Top