Is IntEl's 22nm and ivy bridge a colossal failure?

[pelov]

I still want to know what BD has 8 of at idle....

That's not the first time I've seen that. BD chips are super cool at idle, though, due to that larger size and how well AMD managed power gating. It's the load temperatures, and more accurately the OC'd load and power consumption figures that are too high.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1741/18/

The Core temp readings depend heavily on the ambient temperatures so if you're doing in a very cold room, or a shed or something, the temps will look significantly lower. Nevertheless, so long as all the CPUs are being tested in the same area with the same ambient temperatures it wouldn't matter. AMD chips are also known for showing faulty core temps. I have a 955 that idles at 0C

 

[Boulard83]

That's not the first time I've seen that. BD chips are super cool at idle, though, due to that larger size and how well AMD managed power gating. It's the load temperatures, and more accurately the OC'd load and power consumption figures that are too high.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1741/18/

Idle still cant be lower than room temps ......

 

[frostedflakes]

My FX-8120 would read as low as like 9C at idle, in a room with 21C ambient temperature.

AMD's temp sensors are just wacky.

 

[Tempered81]

Where do you live that 8C idle is even possible? You air condition your house in the winter?

Hahah! Looks like it has been solved already.

 

[Sp12]

IB was always pretty centered about getting die sizes down for Intel. I think they've done great with that. They get to test Tri-grate en masse and get to retake any claims AMD may have had for graphics performance, all while reducing the cost of product/expanding 22nm production.

Why would they pump up performance now when they have the lead? :hmm:Clearly you're expecting them to be your mom and not a competitive firm.

 

[Vesku]

Yeah, don't try to read low temps as being 100% accurate on a temp sensor tweaked for a specific temperature range in the 30-80C

Edit: @Sp12, IB graphics are not retaking anything. But it's a nice continued evolution for Intel.

 

[hyrule4927]

I'm not going to call it a failure, but after what I've seen so far, I think I'm going to just pull the trigger on a 2600K. With the deals at Micro Center right now, buying an IVB makes no sense.

 

[Ferzerp]

Maybe it's supposed to have a 1 before the 8? Either way, it's only a struggle to point out where the tester made an error to discredit his Ivy temps...

Of course it isn't. It wouldn't surprise me if these can't dissipate heat fast enough when they're using what we consider reasonable amounts of power. The laws of physics aren't suggestions. I don't know about getting *that* hot, but with the power they may use and the size they are, they're going to have higher temps than we have seen in the past. The question is going to be how do they respond to that temperature (probably not well because temperature and power usage compound one another).

I do question the capability of anyone who would publish something with obviously false data though.

 

[Ferzerp]

Yeah, don't try to read low temps as being 100% accurate on a temp sensor tweaked for a specific temperature range in the 30-80C

Why publish obviously false data though? No reasonable person would look at that number and say "Great, let me publish that as fact!"

 

[frozentundra123456]

Hey man, that's a temperature reading in degrees Celcius.

Well, he must have a really good cooler, because as someone else said, that is 46 deg F.

 

[Tempered81]

 

[Tempered81]

Of course it isn't. It wouldn't surprise me if these can't dissipate heat fast enough when they're using what we consider reasonable amounts of power. The laws of physics aren't suggestions. I don't know about getting *that* hot, but with the power they may use and the size they are, they're going to have higher temps than we have seen in the past. The question is going to be how do they respond to that temperature (probably not well because temperature and power usage compound one another).

I do question the capability of anyone who would publish something with obviously false data though.

Would you rather him publish what the temperature sensors are outputting or a guess of what the actual idle temps are? You are only making a futile attempt to discredit the Tweaktown reviewer. 3 posters have already given you an explanation for the Bulldozer Idle temps in this thread. Why do you focus on the bulldozer idle temperature sensors, when the point of the original post is Prescott Bridge overclocking?

 

[Ferzerp]

I would think that all the BD pre-release "leaks" would show people to take leaked info with a grain of salt.

 

[pelov]

You can safely discard the Bulldozer idle temps and still prove, at least according to that review, that IVB runs hotter by comparing it to the Intel chips.

Generally speaking, the farther away and random the rumors are the more likely they're completely off target. In this case it's a bit different. We've already heard that they'll run hot and OC worse (or equally at best) for months. Couple that with the Ivy delays related to the issues at tri-gate 22nm node and chips popping up on the forums this close to launch it looks more and more likely that it's just hot and doesn't OC well :/

 

[Ferzerp]

I don't think anyone is arguing against the supposition that it will run hotter than SB.

It uses less power, but the reduction in area available for heat dissipation will more than offset that. It does suggest an issue with the new tech because the voltage should have dropped substantially according to the initial tech docs. It didn't, so despite there being less heat than on SB, the temp is higher because that heat can't dissipate.

We do need to see actual reviews instead of leaks before we see by how much though. The physics supports higher temps, but we need much, much more verified data before we see exactly by how much.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Maybe it's supposed to have a 1 before the 8? Either way, it's only a struggle to point out where the tester made an error to discredit his Ivy temps...

Actually, the whole idle temp thing looks strange. Low to mid 20 deg C is basically room temperature. I have not measured temps on a lot of CPUs, but even at idle inside a PC, do they run at ambient?

 

[Denithor]

You can safely discard the Bulldozer idle temps and still prove, at least according to that review, that IVB runs hotter by comparing it to the Intel chips.

Actually you can do no such thing.

All these charts say is that SB under the stock SB cooler runs a bit lower temperature than IB under the stock IB cooler.

Since the IB chips are rated for lower TDP I would imagine that Intel sliced away a bit more of the already small heatsink and/or reduced fan airflow for quieter performance since it doesn't have as much heat to dissipate.

Put them both under the same cooler, at the same speed (OC or stock, makes no difference) and we'll talk again.

 

[frostedflakes]

Not sure where you read that the stock coolers were used, read the testing methodology here, they used the same cooler for all the CPUs tested, a Corsair H100 water cooler.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/46...ith_ivy_bridge_motherboard_review/index4.html

IB just runs hotter than SB (the versions with HT especially, the non-HT 3570K doesn't seem to run too much hotter from what I've read, though). Over the last month or two numerous leaks have started appearing that suggest IB will be a hot chip compared to SB, this TweakTown review is one among many saying the exact same thing.

 

[Lonyo]

Actually you can do no such thing.

All these charts say is that SB under the stock SB cooler runs a bit lower temperature than IB under the stock IB cooler.

Since the IB chips are rated for lower TDP I would imagine that Intel sliced away a bit more of the already small heatsink and/or reduced fan airflow for quieter performance since it doesn't have as much heat to dissipate.

Put them both under the same cooler, at the same speed (OC or stock, makes no difference) and we'll talk again.

Or the thermal conductivity of the base isn't sufficient to cool as well given a smaller heat producing area of CPU.
IB has a smaller die than SB, and produces less heat, but the heat per cm^2 or mm^2 could be higher, and if that doesn't get efficiently transferred to the heatsink, which is able to cope with the amount of heat being produced, then the temperatures could be higher due to inefficient heat transfer despite less power being used.

77w @ 160mm^2 = 0.48w/mm^2 (Ivybridge)
95w @ 216mm^2 = 0.44w/mm^2 (Sandybridge)

That's where thermal conductivity becomes important.

 

[dma0991]

If Trigate is a method to decrease leakage, I'm pretty sure it would have been much worse if it was made planar. IB isn't quite the failure as it just goes to show that heatsink manufacturers have a reason to find better ways to cool things down.

 

[Boulard83]

Well, as for now, ill stick with SB and wait till more reviews or another stepping.

 

[Vesku]

Good point, which high end CPU cooler companies are publicly traded?

IB isn't quite the failure as it just goes to show that heatsink manufacturers have a reason to find better ways to cool things down.

 

[rgallant]

you have to wonder why z77 mobo makers would add tons of new oc features on boards for cpu's what don't oc well.
-who's going to pay +$100 extra for a high end board to run ib @ 4.5?

 

[billyb0b]

I'm sticking with my i7-975X Bloomfield

 

[TidusZ]

If the heatload for IB is relatively small, maybe Peltiers would make sense. I don't imagine insulating would be all that difficult but I am not sure about their reliability.