Is Intel really all that bad?

[Bona Fide]

A friend of mine purchased the Pentium 4 640 (3.2ghz) despite all of my relentless bashing of Intel. He also got the Zalman CNPS7700-Cu, and was able to get his CPU up to 4.2ghz at 1.5 volts. He said it could do even better, since he was idling at 34-35 and load temps were just above 50.

If that's the case...why do people still bash Intel? Is a 4.2ghz Intel processor still gonna be slower than a 2.8ghz FX-57? Because I plan to OC my SD 3700+ to 2.8ghz and run benchmarks against his 4.2ghz Intel.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

A 2.8 FX-57 will probably match the 4.2 PIV except in cases where Hyperthreading comes into play. It sounds like he got an exceptional chip. Excellent.

 

[Zebo]

I don't believe his mobo first of all.. Ask him to run 3dmark and Prime and throttlewatch together for 24 hours and show you the numbers.

Assuming he's not trottling...You'll win every real world test other than some encoding. He'll win every synthetic and most encoding.. Need about 4.32 Ghz to be equals.

And yea they are pretty lame. Use lots of power run hot and many guys need water cooling to get them to run 100% when OCing.

 

[Capt Caveman]

My Intel 640 ran at 4ghz at stock voltage of 1.4v. Temps were 44c at load, lower than my X2.

This forum unfortunately is so AMD biased that no matter what facts are given about the Intel 6xx series being great oc'ers and run cool, that won't believe it. They assume all Prescotts are the same. Right Zebo?

It's a shame that Intel didn't use the 6xx series cpus for their dual-cores.

 

[Crescent13]

Is Intel really all that bad?

Yup!

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Crescent13

Is Intel really all that bad?

Yup!

Gotta love idiotic responses.

 

[Matt2]

My Xp-90 should be here any day.

When it gets here, you better believe I'll be running 2.8GHZ. Then your friend and I will compare numbers.

I paid $140 for my chip and I can only assume he paid at least $210-$250

Plus, I'll bet there are a lot more 3000+ Venice chips out there @ 2.6-2.8GHZ than there are P4s @ 4GHZ+

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
My Intel 640 ran at 4ghz at stock voltage of 1.4v. Temps were 44c at load, lower than my X2.

This forum unfortunately is so AMD biased that no matter what facts are given about the Intel 6xx series being great oc'ers and run cool, that won't believe it. They assume all Prescotts are the same. Right Zebo?

It's a shame that Intel didn't use the 6xx series cpus for their dual-cores.

What's thier to believe? Reviewers who actually use tools and measure 160+watts over 3.8 or some user relying on bunk mobo diodes which vary by more than 30C. Even bios upgrades can change your temps. Asus is notortiously low Abit high. BTW where you think all that power goes?

I don't care what your temps are.. I've never looked at mine unless someone asks for some odd reason which I've never been able to figure out. What I do care about is performance and 24/7 loaded stability. Show me that then I get impressed.

 

[furballi]

Run SuperPi at 1M digits. Post the time with that overclocked P4. For reference, my overclocked 3000 Winchester (2448MHz) completes this test in 34 sec.

 

[Avalon]

No, Intel is not bad, but unless you have a specific reason for needing one of their chips, you can usually get equal or better performing AMD chips for a fraction of the price, and to me, it's all about bang for the buck.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
My Intel 640 ran at 4ghz at stock voltage of 1.4v. Temps were 44c at load, lower than my X2.

This forum unfortunately is so AMD biased that no matter what facts are given about the Intel 6xx series being great oc'ers and run cool, that won't believe it. They assume all Prescotts are the same. Right Zebo?

It's a shame that Intel didn't use the 6xx series cpus for their dual-cores.

What's thier to believe? Reviewers who actually use tools and measure 160+watts over 3.8 or some user relying on bunk mobo diodes which vary by more than 30C. Even bios upgrades can change your temps. Asus is notortiously low Abit high. BTW where you think all that power goes?

I don't care what your temps are.. I've never looked at mine unless someone asks for some odd reason which I've never been able to figure out. What I do care about is performance and 24/7 loaded stability. Show me that then I get impressed.

LMAO. If you don't care about temps, don't bring them up. When I had my 640, it did run 24/7, folding/seti and a sql server database w/ 8 connections to the net. Stable? Hell ya. And did my system every throttle, no. Why not? B/c my temps weren't an issue, as they aren't for your system.

And in regards to the 6xx series oc'ing to 4ghz. If you go to xtremesystems or ocforums, the norm is 3.8-4ghz. Just like how Venices can reach 2.6-2.8ghz.

 

[Bona Fide]

Yeah, I've asked him to run some tests. He told me [no screenshot] that he was able to run P95 for 13 hours overnight, with no errors or anything. He just downloaded 3dmark05 and Sandra's memory "thingie". Gonna see how that goes. My chip should be here tomorrow, if Newegg can hold their 2-day shipping guarantee.

I always knew that raw clock speed didn't count for much...but still, 4ghz seems impressive. I hope I'll be able to beat him.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: Bona Fide
Yeah, I've asked him to run some tests. He told me [no screenshot] that he was able to run P95 for 13 hours overnight, with no errors or anything. He just downloaded 3dmark05 and Sandra's memory "thingie". Gonna see how that goes. My chip should be here tomorrow, if Newegg can hold their 2-day shipping guarantee.

I always knew that raw clock speed didn't count for much...but still, 4ghz seems impressive. I hope I'll be able to beat him.

I believe theres a program to show you if your throttling, tell him to get that.

4ghz does seem impressive but it doesnt seem very likely.

 

[jpeyton]

I don't know how you guys are getting load temps around 50C with an Intel @ 1.5V/4GHz. My load temps on my Asus were closer to 60C with the Zalman 7700Cu.

 

[Zebo]

simple, neither are accurate. I've shown this stuff before. Same two exact mobos I had differed by more than 20C.


All that matters is the results of whatever temps mobo decides to show. eg are you trottling under sustained load? wether it shows 40 or 80.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I don't know how you guys are getting load temps around 50C with an Intel @ 1.5V/4GHz. My load temps on my Asus were closer to 60C with the Zalman 7700Cu.

I was using a XP-120 and was mid-forties @ 1.4v

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Zebo
simple, neither are accurate. I've shown this stuff before. Same two exact mobos I had differed by more than 20C.


All that matters is the results of whatever temps mobo decides to show. eg are you trottling under sustained load? wether it shows 40 or 80.

As mentioned earlier, 24/7 100% load @ 4ghz, never throttled. And remember, we're talking about the 6xx series.

 

[Gamingphreek]

OP, your friend is so full of crap. There is no way that any Intel chip on the market is going to be pulling only 34C even at stock speed unless you have wawter cooling or a Vantec Tornado fan on top.

Additionally it is probably sucking energy like no tomorrow. Considering a single core Intel processor at Idle uses more power than a dual core AMD processor at load that should give a slight idea. Also, i believe Zebo created a thread showing how much money you save each year through some math calculations. It is more than you think.

In all honesty there is no real reason to get the P4's right now. Not until Intel releases their new core architecture (Merom), the AMD chips are faster and use a bunch less power. The P4 only holds a slight lead in encoding decoding when using apps optimized for the P4.

-Kevin

 

[Capt Caveman]

If you're a heavy multi-tasker and you had only the choice of a single-core cpu, Intel 6xx series every day.

 

[Bona Fide]

Heh, I know that AMD is better in most respects. That's why I'm getting a 3700+. It just made me wonder, since people here [and elsewhere] consistently bash Intel. As little as raw clock speed is worth, pulling 4+ghz should give you respectable results.

And at the people wondering about cooling/temps, he said the temps he got were from his case's diodes (Thermaltake Xaser) as well as from Asus' onboard monitor. The fluctuation between the two was supposedly <1degree.

 

[TGS]

Here's some FUD for you.


Text

At first it was hard to believe these two processors were relatively stable at these clock speeds, but indeed they were. We ran our Folding client again at 100% load, and the system held up for about half an hour of testing on our open-air bench test setup. Frankly we wouldn't dare run at these speeds inside a closed chassis because core temps were reaching a scorching 80oC. However, with a bit more elaborate cooling solution, especially watercooling or even a Vapochill, these processors should be able to hit these clocks speeds, and dare we say higher, without too much trouble. In our mind, a reasonable overclock expectation in a closed chassis with air cooling would be around the 4GHz mark. Either way, these new Prescott 2M core CPUs have a ton of headroom for overclocking enthusiasts.

 

[furballi]

P4 will cost more $, consume more electricity (hot system), and require expensive RAM.

Bottomline, AMD wins in the performance/price ratio.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Wrong about the RAM.
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20050701082701.html">DDR2 SDRAM Cheaper Than DDR ? DRAM Exchange.
DDR2 Memory Chips Getting Cheaper than DDR Devices</a>

 

[fishmonger12]

this thread is worthless without proof

ddr2 prices:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145526

ddr prices:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440

ddr2 = 7$ more. not bad, but not less than normal ddr.

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
If you're a heavy multi-tasker and you had only the choice of a single-core cpu, Intel 6xx series every day.

multitasking without dual core is like gaming with a pci video card. what's the point? dual core intel processors are like 250$. if you're looking for some better performance, amd dual cores are in the 400$ range. either will offer better multitasking than the most expensive amd/intel processors.

awaiting some sort of logical defense of your position, at the moment you have secondhand evidence from an unreliable source without proof that intel's 6 series can overclock to 4 ghz at 30ish celcius. we have google.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: fishmonger12
this thread is worthless without proof

ddr2 prices:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145526

ddr prices:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440

ddr2 = 7$ more. not bad, but not less than normal ddr.

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
If you're a heavy multi-tasker and you had only the choice of a single-core cpu, Intel 6xx series every day.

multitasking without dual core is like gaming with a pci video card. what's the point? dual core intel processors are like 250$. if you're looking for some better performance, amd dual cores are in the 400$ range. either will offer better multitasking than the most expensive amd/intel processors.

awaiting some sort of logical defense of your position, at the moment you have secondhand evidence from an unreliable source without proof that intel's 6 series can overclock to 4 ghz at 30ish celcius. we have google.

First, the article said DDR2 is getting cheaper. And b/c this is occuring in Asia, the effect wouldn't hit the US for some time period afterwards. When inventories need to be replenished, companies will be able to buy DDR2 ram at a lower cost. Then you'll see prices drop further.

When I got my 640, dual-cores weren't available so that's why I stated and you quoted, if your only choice was a single-core cpu. Reading comprehension issues?

Please send us all a link to a $400 range AMD dual-core! I think everyone would be happy here.

Second-hand evidence? I posted that I had a 640 system. Was able to overclock it to 4ghz on stock voltage. And at idle, temps were in the mid-thirties and at load mid-forties. Sorry if I don't have screenshots when I had the system. As Zebo said, it's possible my temp sensors sucked. But my system was stable 24/7 at load.

All you need to do is go to xtremesystems or ocforums, heck google may even lead you there.