With the coming of the Crush chipset, and other platforms which seem to be promising for the AMD cpu's like the SiS735, do you think Intel is in trouble? AMD is gaining fast or so it seems with there superb price/performance ratio and i'd venture to guess a lot of people are switching to AMD solutions. So with the scene looking better and better and more slanted towards AMD, do you think Intel is in trouble or has anything to worry about?
Is Intel In Trouble?
- Thread starter Informant X
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In trouble? Nah, I wouldn't go that far.
Concerned about the comptetion? I'm sure they are, and with good reason.
Concerned about the comptetion? I'm sure they are, and with good reason.
From what I understand at some insiders at Intel is that they are going to slowly move their focus out ot the CPU market. Currently I believe 80% of their resources is used for CPU development. They would like to switch this to 30% and focus more attention on communications appplications. This is just what I heard tho.
They have nothing to worry about. They are a strong company with alot of brilliant people working there. In my opinion, I think they waste alot of their resources (ie 5 teams on one project at one facility with another 5 teams at another location doing the exact same thing and competing) Although it may be wasteful, it's pretty useful, and since AMD does not have these types or resources, I doubt AMD could ever surpass Intel as far as brand recognition and revenue. AMD may be able to surpass them in the CPU market.
They have nothing to worry about. They are a strong company with alot of brilliant people working there. In my opinion, I think they waste alot of their resources (ie 5 teams on one project at one facility with another 5 teams at another location doing the exact same thing and competing) Although it may be wasteful, it's pretty useful, and since AMD does not have these types or resources, I doubt AMD could ever surpass Intel as far as brand recognition and revenue. AMD may be able to surpass them in the CPU market.
i have no numbers or statistics to back this up, but here is my gut feeling... if intel is concerned about the enthusiast/hardcore user/upgrader/tweaker/etc... then they are worried. however, i think we are such a tiny percentage of the computer market that it doesn't really matter. in general, intel i'm sure has taken notice of amd's emergence into the market as a budget and performance solution but i don't think they are "worried". i would bet that the vast majority of universities and big businesses still use intel, and that is where most of the money is. on top of that, the consumer market where amd is competing is still dominated by intel based on name recognition.
When AMD makes a stable and reliable Chipset platform or this new Nvidia is just as stable as an Intel chipset, THATS when they are going to worry because thats what businesses want above all else. Stability and reliablility.
Not likely, Intel is just to big. They have a lot of incredible engineers... sure, sometimes they may lag or make a bad decision, but they're not going anywhere. I'm sure we will see big things from Intel to come.
I am a programmer at a very large corporation, and being in IT I can tell you, none of the IT guys even consider AMD at this point. They know Intel, and moreover, they know DELL, who only uses Intel. As far as I can tell, they're NOT changing anytime soon either. When I even mention AMD, they scoff and laugh.
The hardcore few of us out here are pennies to the dollar, even though I am an Intel user at this point, unless things change, my next major upgrade will go the AMD way.
I am a programmer at a very large corporation, and being in IT I can tell you, none of the IT guys even consider AMD at this point. They know Intel, and moreover, they know DELL, who only uses Intel. As far as I can tell, they're NOT changing anytime soon either. When I even mention AMD, they scoff and laugh.
The hardcore few of us out here are pennies to the dollar, even though I am an Intel user at this point, unless things change, my next major upgrade will go the AMD way.
If they ever get really paranoid, all they have to do is take some of that $8 Billion cash on hand, offer AMD stockholders a ridiculous price and do a "hostile". The non-functioning FTC will have no problem with that, nothing in the way of a merger seems to bother them.
I think AMD would make a bigger hit in the marketplace if they had an advertising department that pushed like Intel does.
How many AMD commercials do you see on TV?
You wouldn't believe how many people don't know AMD but know Intel just from brand recognition.
If they really started pushing a marketing campaign, then I think Intel would be a little bit more worried. But I don't think Intel will ever be in trouble. Just lose a little market share.
If AMD was smart they would team up with Nvidia for a push on these Nforce/AMD combo's.
Market the home user with this and they would be huge.
A cheap nice looking box that could play MP3's, watch DVD's in Dolby Digital, Web surf, play games, and still be used as a pc, etc. With a wireless keyboard and mouse, this would be a couch potatoes dream.
How many AMD commercials do you see on TV?
You wouldn't believe how many people don't know AMD but know Intel just from brand recognition.
If they really started pushing a marketing campaign, then I think Intel would be a little bit more worried. But I don't think Intel will ever be in trouble. Just lose a little market share.
If AMD was smart they would team up with Nvidia for a push on these Nforce/AMD combo's.
Market the home user with this and they would be huge.
A cheap nice looking box that could play MP3's, watch DVD's in Dolby Digital, Web surf, play games, and still be used as a pc, etc. With a wireless keyboard and mouse, this would be a couch potatoes dream.
"If AMD was smart they would team up with Nvidia for a push on these Nforce/AMD combo's.
Market the home user with this and they would be huge.
A cheap nice looking box that could play MP3's, watch DVD's in Dolby Digital, Web surf, play games, and still be used as a pc, etc. With a wireless keyboard and mouse, this would be a couch potatoes dream."
Oh you mean kinda like the X-Box? HMMM, a little less PC function and a WHOLE LOT cheaper.......
Market the home user with this and they would be huge.
A cheap nice looking box that could play MP3's, watch DVD's in Dolby Digital, Web surf, play games, and still be used as a pc, etc. With a wireless keyboard and mouse, this would be a couch potatoes dream."
Oh you mean kinda like the X-Box? HMMM, a little less PC function and a WHOLE LOT cheaper.......
Intel was in trouble, they have let AMD grab the spotlight for awhile....to get the FTC off their backs <evil grin>
well dude I think they r in BiG trouble. I mean their "stuff" is slower and cost a bag of $$$. AMD make better, faster and cheeper things ;-]
That's my oppinion if you disagree PM me
That's my oppinion if you disagree PM me
<< Oh you mean kinda like the X-Box? HMMM, a little less PC function and a WHOLE LOT cheaper....... >>
What do mean a whole lot cheaper.
Motherboard, cpu, ram, hd, keyboard and mouse.
I think that this would be very cheap for AMD and Nvidia. A cheap 800 or 900Mhz Duron, 128M ram, generic 15-20g hd.
Never mind that you can't upgrade your hardware on an x-box. You can't edit photo's, video, save files, have an installed base for playing online games, add a nice scanner or printer, run a different o/s, overclock, web cam, zip drive, 3 1/2in, add a burner, don't know about mp3's, make backup's, network, etc.
AMD is doing well right now. really well. They certainly have taken my business lately, both for price/performance, and for upgrade path.
With that said, do people realize how BIG Intel is? If Intel stopped selling all CPUs today, they'd still be around for a long time.
No matter what AMD does, Intel will still control the market. Its' simply a matter of AMD gaining enough momentum to become a legitable second supplier, just like there is a Ford AND a Chevy, not just a ford.
I am a programmer at a very large corporation, and being in IT I can tell you, none of the IT guys even consider AMD at this point. They know Intel, and moreover, they know DELL, who only uses Intel. As far as I can tell, they're NOT changing anytime soon either. When I even mention AMD, they scoff and laugh.
Well it sounds to me as if those guys are close minded. Why would you not look at another solution if it were stable, cost less, and in ready supply? They are only cheating themselves and the company, though I do blame AMD's slowness in getting out multiple proc motherboard chipsets for part of the reason AMD has not cracked the "Intel Inside" prejudice that exists in corporations. Oc course that will happen in due time
Well it sounds to me as if those guys are close minded. Why would you not look at another solution if it were stable, cost less, and in ready supply? They are only cheating themselves and the company, though I do blame AMD's slowness in getting out multiple proc motherboard chipsets for part of the reason AMD has not cracked the "Intel Inside" prejudice that exists in corporations. Oc course that will happen in due time
<< well dude I think they r in BiG trouble. I mean their "stuff" is slower and cost a bag of $$$. AMD make better, faster and cheeper things ;-]
That's my oppinion if you disagree PM me >>
dude...u think intel only makes cpus? they are everywhere...even if the roles reverse and intels popularity is reduced to what AMD was 2 years ago, they are still so huge, they are like Apple on steriods, they will not go away.
wyvrn-at least in regards to where I work, from what I gather from procurement you can get much better deals on Intel based systems when buying in mass-quantaties which is the main reason we buy them.
Also Intel is a Known name, speaking for where I work, one of my managers once asked me what a Zip drive was......now this guy may not know what a Zip Drive is but he sure knows what an Intel processor is
Now if you were the guy in charge of buying things (not a mamager in the least) and you were to suggest and subsequentially buy AMD based systems, and lest say something were to go wrong (Like some ahh should we say, VIA chipset problem...granted I am going way out on a limb because you never see those)
well to make a long story short, your ace would be grass-because you suggested something your managers were not familiar with and it did not work out.
After working in an all Intel environment, and then reading some of the problems people have here, I thank god we do not use Amd based systems for the workstations-people here have a hard enough time turning the things on, let alone using them properly. They spill drinks on their machines, put them right next to space heaters, etc.....
I have seen Intel based P2 and 3 machines that have been running for months if not the past year with blown CPU fans and or dying ones and they still run fine(the people dont call in until a year later to complain about a whining noise from their case). Heck all of the systems we deploy currently only have passive cooling on the Cpu-so there is no CPU fan to kill, only a PS fan.
Whatever, this is just my take on it from working in the Industry for the past two and a half years....I am in no way an expert in both procurement and or management
Also Intel is a Known name, speaking for where I work, one of my managers once asked me what a Zip drive was......now this guy may not know what a Zip Drive is but he sure knows what an Intel processor is
Now if you were the guy in charge of buying things (not a mamager in the least) and you were to suggest and subsequentially buy AMD based systems, and lest say something were to go wrong (Like some ahh should we say, VIA chipset problem...granted I am going way out on a limb because you never see those)
well to make a long story short, your ace would be grass-because you suggested something your managers were not familiar with and it did not work out.
After working in an all Intel environment, and then reading some of the problems people have here, I thank god we do not use Amd based systems for the workstations-people here have a hard enough time turning the things on, let alone using them properly. They spill drinks on their machines, put them right next to space heaters, etc.....
I have seen Intel based P2 and 3 machines that have been running for months if not the past year with blown CPU fans and or dying ones and they still run fine(the people dont call in until a year later to complain about a whining noise from their case). Heck all of the systems we deploy currently only have passive cooling on the Cpu-so there is no CPU fan to kill, only a PS fan.
Whatever, this is just my take on it from working in the Industry for the past two and a half years....I am in no way an expert in both procurement and or management
"Apple on staroids."
Hehe, that just sounds funny.
Intel isn't going away anytime soon, just like how IBM isn't gone, but we here less about them in hardcore comp land.
Hehe, that just sounds funny.
Intel isn't going away anytime soon, just like how IBM isn't gone, but we here less about them in hardcore comp land.
just because a company sticks to dell and intel does not mean they are close minded, they just have a lot to worry about and if Dell and Intel get the job done, why look anywhere else? its like if you go to the same barber for 10 years and he does a good job at a decent price, are you even paying attention to any other barbers? no way.
After working in an all Intel environment, and then reading some of the problems people have here, I thank god we do not use Amd based systems for the workstations-people here have a hard enough time turning the things on, let alone using them properly. They spill drinks on their machines, put them right next to space heaters, etc.....
95% of the problems people have with AMD's (and VIA chipsets) can be corrected with the current 4in1 drivers. And as long as the desktop is not using a SBLive (how many desktops use this card for a business environment anyway?), then you should really have no problems. AMD's lower reliablity is a myth. Get over it already, people. (But I don't really want to start another stupid AMD vs. Intel war).
just because a company sticks to dell and intel does not mean they are close minded, they just have a lot to worry about and if Dell and Intel get the job done, why look anywhere else? its like if you go to the same barber for 10 years and he does a good job at a decent price, are you even paying attention to any other barbers? no way.
Personally, I have used Compaq, Dell, and IBM workstations at my jobs. They all worked fine, and I am sure that if they had a line of AMD computers under their name with their warranty, I would not hesitate to buy a sh!tload of them for my company (if I were in such a position). My pt is that holding onto a brand name can in the long run do more damage than good. One company is not going to be the best buy forever, which is why Dell sells more desktops than Compaq now. Eventually, it will be someone else. There is no reason to have a blind allegance in any one desktop company or chipset manufacturer.
Servers may be a different story though, I will decline to comment on them as I don't work on them for a living.
95% of the problems people have with AMD's (and VIA chipsets) can be corrected with the current 4in1 drivers. And as long as the desktop is not using a SBLive (how many desktops use this card for a business environment anyway?), then you should really have no problems. AMD's lower reliablity is a myth. Get over it already, people. (But I don't really want to start another stupid AMD vs. Intel war).
just because a company sticks to dell and intel does not mean they are close minded, they just have a lot to worry about and if Dell and Intel get the job done, why look anywhere else? its like if you go to the same barber for 10 years and he does a good job at a decent price, are you even paying attention to any other barbers? no way.
Personally, I have used Compaq, Dell, and IBM workstations at my jobs. They all worked fine, and I am sure that if they had a line of AMD computers under their name with their warranty, I would not hesitate to buy a sh!tload of them for my company (if I were in such a position). My pt is that holding onto a brand name can in the long run do more damage than good. One company is not going to be the best buy forever, which is why Dell sells more desktops than Compaq now. Eventually, it will be someone else. There is no reason to have a blind allegance in any one desktop company or chipset manufacturer.
Servers may be a different story though, I will decline to comment on them as I don't work on them for a living.
Another thing to consider: problems that you see on a VIA/AMD system are not necessarily the same set of problems you will see on an Intel system. I don't believe for a minute that you will see more problems with one or the other. So, why complicate life. Just stick with good old reliable and limit the different number of headaches you could possibly have. I don't mind fixing the same headache 20 times but I do mind fixing 10 different headaches at the same time.
I'm lucky in that I have total control over what we buy and when money was tight for us a few years back, we were able to go with AMD and I am still able to go with AMD. The 4in1's cure my headache so its an easy one for me to keep with this decision. I think we currently have 4 active systems in the company that aren't AMD and they cause me more problems simply because they are the oddballs of the company and I'm not intimately familiar with them like the AMD systems.
I'm lucky in that I have total control over what we buy and when money was tight for us a few years back, we were able to go with AMD and I am still able to go with AMD. The 4in1's cure my headache so its an easy one for me to keep with this decision. I think we currently have 4 active systems in the company that aren't AMD and they cause me more problems simply because they are the oddballs of the company and I'm not intimately familiar with them like the AMD systems.
Sorry wyvrn but I have read about more than just SB related problems on this board when dealing with VIA.
Like I said I personally would not want to work in an environment that used AMD/VIA systems at this point in time. That is my personal opinion from working in the field and see what can really go wrong with some machines...
We have a hard enough time dealing with the users and bare bone pentium 3 based systems
our engineers have a hard enough time dealing with coreloads that do not require 4 in 1 drivers or any other special Tweaks.
Like I said I personally would not want to work in an environment that used AMD/VIA systems at this point in time. That is my personal opinion from working in the field and see what can really go wrong with some machines...
We have a hard enough time dealing with the users and bare bone pentium 3 based systems
our engineers have a hard enough time dealing with coreloads that do not require 4 in 1 drivers or any other special Tweaks.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
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Yes and no. It also depends on what you define as "trouble". I don't think Intel is going to cease to exist, but IBM is a good example of what kind of troubles that could be ahead for Intel. Let me explain.
Intel's troubles
Intel is quickly running out of market sectors that it can point to where it clearly is the best choice. Lowend Desktop PCs, High end PCs, Notebook PCs, Workstations, and Dual Processor server/Workstations are now(or soon will be) dominated(price/performance wise) by AMD. That's just about the whole x86 PC market. The result of this will produce various effects on Intel:
1) Price. Intel has been recently forced to abandon premium pricing, which it has come to rely on. The fallout of this recent move hasn't yet been thoroughly felt. In time, I believe this event will prove to have taken a big bite out of Intel's cash flow.
2) Marketshare. AMD will continue to gain marketshare at Intel's cost. Another 5-10% marketshare gain by AMD and Intel will have to mothball, sell, or switch a fab to non-processor production. I think AMD will gain 5-10% more marketshare within the next 12 months.
3) Shareholders. If Intel doesn't make a dramatic move in revenues by year end(Jan) and AMD continues to show gains in revenue, there will begin a shareholder revolt. The result of such a revolt could vary from a few executive heads rolled, to layoffs, to a "re-structuring" of Intel.
Intel's saving grace
Intel is not in immediate danger, for a couple reasons:
1) Production capacity. Intel has the fab capacity to continue to dominate the cpu market. AMD has enough to continue to make marketshare penetration, but it needs 1 or 2 more fabs to dominate.
2) Brand recognition. Intel still has this, but I think it doesn't have it as much as most people here think it does. Sure, John Q Public knows Intel and doesn't know AMD, but John Q Public isn't the most important person to gain brand recognition. Techs, geeks, and salespersons are the people who turn brand recognition into a force to be reckoned with. AMD is doing very well with the crowd that matters, IMO.
We are only a 3-5 years from a 50/50 split! IMO.
Intel's troubles
Intel is quickly running out of market sectors that it can point to where it clearly is the best choice. Lowend Desktop PCs, High end PCs, Notebook PCs, Workstations, and Dual Processor server/Workstations are now(or soon will be) dominated(price/performance wise) by AMD. That's just about the whole x86 PC market. The result of this will produce various effects on Intel:
1) Price. Intel has been recently forced to abandon premium pricing, which it has come to rely on. The fallout of this recent move hasn't yet been thoroughly felt. In time, I believe this event will prove to have taken a big bite out of Intel's cash flow.
2) Marketshare. AMD will continue to gain marketshare at Intel's cost. Another 5-10% marketshare gain by AMD and Intel will have to mothball, sell, or switch a fab to non-processor production. I think AMD will gain 5-10% more marketshare within the next 12 months.
3) Shareholders. If Intel doesn't make a dramatic move in revenues by year end(Jan) and AMD continues to show gains in revenue, there will begin a shareholder revolt. The result of such a revolt could vary from a few executive heads rolled, to layoffs, to a "re-structuring" of Intel.
Intel's saving grace
Intel is not in immediate danger, for a couple reasons:
1) Production capacity. Intel has the fab capacity to continue to dominate the cpu market. AMD has enough to continue to make marketshare penetration, but it needs 1 or 2 more fabs to dominate.
2) Brand recognition. Intel still has this, but I think it doesn't have it as much as most people here think it does. Sure, John Q Public knows Intel and doesn't know AMD, but John Q Public isn't the most important person to gain brand recognition. Techs, geeks, and salespersons are the people who turn brand recognition into a force to be reckoned with. AMD is doing very well with the crowd that matters, IMO.
We are only a 3-5 years from a 50/50 split! IMO.
"John Q Public isn't the most important person to gain brand recognition."
I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. Techs/geeks are very much the minority when it comes to the market. Salespeople will sell whatever makes them more money, which undoubtedly is Intel.
I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. Techs/geeks are very much the minority when it comes to the market. Salespeople will sell whatever makes them more money, which undoubtedly is Intel.
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