Is homosexuality by choice or by birth?

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: welst10

Originally posted by: Eli
Anybody who says it's a choice is a stupid fscking retarded moron who needs to wake up and sniff the real world.

Think about it. Do you "choose" to like women? NO. You just do.

You can't make yourself like the same sex any easier than a homosexual can make themseves like the opposite sex. It's as simple as that.

Sorry. I just hate it when people can't put themselves in other peoples shoes and look at things realistically, instead letting their egos cloud their infantile brains.

So by your logic, murderer is also by birth since "how do they choose to kill, no they jusy kill"? How did Hitler choose to be a Nazi. No, he just is.

Oh no, another one.

Oh boy. Murdering someone is a conscious decision. That is the difference. Choosing to eat Raisin Bran instead of Corn Flakes cannot be compared to being homosexual, it is absolutely not the same.

Think about it. When was the last time you were presented with the choice to like men or women? It just doesen't exist, it is in who you are.

Actually that is sorta the same ..... You are presented with a choice to like Raisan Bran and Corn Flakes. You are presented with a choice to eat Fatty Foods and Grain foods. I still think its a bit from BOTH columns.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: CrazyApe

Originally posted by: Eli
Anybody who says it's a choice is a stupid fscking retarded moron who needs to wake up and sniff the real world.

Think about it. Do you "choose" to like women? NO. You just do.

You can't make yourself like the same sex any easier than a homosexual can make themseves like the opposite sex. It's as simple as that.

Sorry. I just hate it when people can't put themselves in other peoples shoes and look at things realistically, instead letting their egos cloud their infantile brains.

What if a heterosexual who has never even thought of homosexual activity goes to jail for 30 years. That heterosexual has a mutual encounter with another inmate of the same sex, not because he/she is forced, but because it "just happened". That heterosexual likes the encounter and has many more over his/her 30 years of confinement.
Now, 30 years later, this person (we can't call him/her a hetero anymore) goes out into the real world again and finds that he/she can't get excited by the opposite sex anymore. This person has to have same-sex encounters to enjoy himself/herself. This person became a homosexual by LEARNED BEHAVIOR.

"Sorry. I just hate it when people can't put themselves in other peoples shoes and look at things realistically, instead letting their egos cloud their infanitle brains."

It doesen't matter. The situation is still the same. It's hard wired. It isn't a conscious decision.

It may be "learned behavior", but it is NOT their choice. This would fall into the "nurture" side of things.

If it's by nurture then it can't be by birth.

I never said that it was for-sure by birth. I just said that it is not a choice.

Whether it is by nature or nuture, it is still a hard wired, unconscious decision. That is my assertion.

There have got to be some scientific studies on this.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: hatim
its all about upbringing. A babay is like a blank peice of paper...It will learn what it will see. Side effects of too many relationships IMO

Explain please why there are children of prominent conservative families who are gay. Additionally, explain why all children raised in a "gay promoting" household don't turn out gay.

Extra credit: don't point a finger at the media since gayness predates them by rather a lot.

So how come there are more gays in north america than any where else?

 

[welst10]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: welst10

Originally posted by: Eli
Anybody who says it's a choice is a stupid fscking retarded moron who needs to wake up and sniff the real world.

Think about it. Do you "choose" to like women? NO. You just do.

You can't make yourself like the same sex any easier than a homosexual can make themseves like the opposite sex. It's as simple as that.

Sorry. I just hate it when people can't put themselves in other peoples shoes and look at things realistically, instead letting their egos cloud their infantile brains.

So by your logic, murderer is also by birth since "how do they choose to kill, no they jusy kill"? How did Hitler choose to be a Nazi. No, he just is.

Oh no, another one.

Oh boy. Murdering someone is a conscious decision. That is the difference. Choosing to eat Raisin Bran instead of Corn Flakes cannot be compared to being homosexual, it is absolutely not the same.

Think about it. When was the last time you were presented with the choice to like men or women? It just doesen't exist, it is in who you are.

bullsh1t. I can choose to be a gay. Give me $10Million and I'll convert to gay.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: hatim
its all about upbringing. A babay is like a blank peice of paper...It will learn what it will see. Side effects of too many relationships IMO

Explain please why there are children of prominent conservative families who are gay. Additionally, explain why all children raised in a "gay promoting" household don't turn out gay.

Extra credit: don't point a finger at the media since gayness predates them by rather a lot.

So how come there are more gays in north america than any where else?

Are you talking absolute numbers or per-capita? Let's see some data.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
You still avoided it. If it was simply a matter of choice, or upbringing factors, why would it occur in nature?

It exists in the animal kingdom primarily as playful behavior--along the lines of poo flinging--or dominence asserting.

Where does it exist in the animal kingdom outside of playing around or asserting a pecking order? You sound so sure, I'm sure you have numerous cases lined up to share.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: welst10

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: welst10

Originally posted by: Eli
Anybody who says it's a choice is a stupid fscking retarded moron who needs to wake up and sniff the real world.

Think about it. Do you "choose" to like women? NO. You just do.

You can't make yourself like the same sex any easier than a homosexual can make themseves like the opposite sex. It's as simple as that.

Sorry. I just hate it when people can't put themselves in other peoples shoes and look at things realistically, instead letting their egos cloud their infantile brains.

So by your logic, murderer is also by birth since "how do they choose to kill, no they jusy kill"? How did Hitler choose to be a Nazi. No, he just is.

Oh no, another one.

Oh boy. Murdering someone is a conscious decision. That is the difference. Choosing to eat Raisin Bran instead of Corn Flakes cannot be compared to being homosexual, it is absolutely not the same.

Think about it. When was the last time you were presented with the choice to like men or women? It just doesen't exist, it is in who you are.

bullsh1t. I can choose to be a gay. Give me $10Million and I'll convert to gay.

Remove the ten mil.

Still willing to have sex with men?

- M4H

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: welst10

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: welst10

Originally posted by: Eli
Anybody who says it's a choice is a stupid fscking retarded moron who needs to wake up and sniff the real world.

Think about it. Do you "choose" to like women? NO. You just do.

You can't make yourself like the same sex any easier than a homosexual can make themseves like the opposite sex. It's as simple as that.

Sorry. I just hate it when people can't put themselves in other peoples shoes and look at things realistically, instead letting their egos cloud their infantile brains.

So by your logic, murderer is also by birth since "how do they choose to kill, no they jusy kill"? How did Hitler choose to be a Nazi. No, he just is.

Oh no, another one.

Oh boy. Murdering someone is a conscious decision. That is the difference. Choosing to eat Raisin Bran instead of Corn Flakes cannot be compared to being homosexual, it is absolutely not the same.

Think about it. When was the last time you were presented with the choice to like men or women? It just doesen't exist, it is in who you are.

bullsh1t. I can choose to be a gay. Give me $10Million and I'll convert to gay.

That doesn't make you gay; it makes you a guy who has sex with other men because someone gave him money. $10 million or not, you'll still want to have sex with women given a choice.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: hatim
its all about upbringing. A babay is like a blank peice of paper...It will learn what it will see. Side effects of too many relationships IMO

Explain please why there are children of prominent conservative families who are gay. Additionally, explain why all children raised in a "gay promoting" household don't turn out gay.

Extra credit: don't point a finger at the media since gayness predates them by rather a lot.

So how come there are more gays in north america than any where else?

There aren't.

I'm pretty sure that the homosexuality rate is about 10% all throughout the animal kingdom, including us.

Feel free to correct me.

 

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: Fausto

Originally posted by: hatim
its all about upbringing. A babay is like a blank peice of paper...It will learn what it will see. Side effects of too many relationships IMO

Explain please why there are children of prominent conservative families who are gay. Additionally, explain why all children raised in a "gay promoting" household don't turn out gay.

Extra credit: don't point a finger at the media since gayness predates them by rather a lot.

So how come there are more gays in north america than any where else?

Because they get killed in many other countries?
Data usually helps to back up your statements, apparently you don't have any. Be quick with the google while your post slips further and further up the list.

I really honestly can't believe you people can say that homosexuality is strictly a choice.
That is like saying there is no margin of error in the human sexual development.
Have any of you taken stats?

 

[CrazyApe]

If he enjoyed it and wanted more, then he wasn't "heterosexual" to start with, dumbass.

Oh, and just because someone got man-raped in prison does not make them gay. It makes them a victim.

- M4H

Thanks for the personal attack. Keep your anger out of the argument.

So if this person has ONLY heterosexual encounters until he/she goes to prison and LIKES these encounters, he/she would still be a homosexual????


Oh, and how does this statement:

"That heterosexual has a mutual encounter with another inmate of the same sex, not because he/she is forced, but because it "just happened". "

equal this statement:

"Oh, and just because someone got man-raped in prison does not make them gay. It makes them a victim."

???????????????????????

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Insane3D
You still avoided it. If it was simply a matter of choice, or upbringing factors, why would it occur in nature?

It exists in the animal kingdom primarily as playful behavior--along the lines of poo flinging--or dominence asserting.

Where does it exist in the animal kingdom outside of playing around or asserting a pecking order? You sound so sure, I'm sure you have numerous cases lined up to share.

Right, I'm sorry, you have a degree in zoology. :roll:

Species / % homosexual / % bisexual / % heterosexual

silver gulls (females) 10 11 79
black headed gulls (both sexes) 22 15 63
Japanese macaques (both sexes) 9 56 35
bonobo chimpanzees (both sexes) 0 100 0
galahs (both sexes) 44 11 44

source: Bruce Bahemihl, Ph.D., Biological Exhuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity, St. Martin's Press, 2000, page 35

- M4H

 

[Chadder007]

Also....how does the Gay "gene" keep reintroducing itself into more people? Gays cannot Biologically have kids together so their genes aren't spread. If more and more people are coming out....being Gay, then how is this gene spreading if they aren't reproducing more and more with Hetros?

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Insane3D
You still avoided it. If it was simply a matter of choice, or upbringing factors, why would it occur in nature?

It exists in the animal kingdom primarily as playful behavior--along the lines of poo flinging--or dominence asserting.

Where does it exist in the animal kingdom outside of playing around or asserting a pecking order? You sound so sure, I'm sure you have numerous cases lined up to share.

WTF?

So when male monkey has sex with another male monkey, it's just "playful behavior", but when a human male has sex with another human male, it is teh evil homosexuality?

Convienent.

Think about what you're saying here.

 

[jyates]

Originally posted by: gigapet
maybe heterosexuality is the disorder and gays are normal

Dang you......you made me spit Dr. Pepper on my lcd when I read that. 🙂

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: hatim
its all about upbringing. A babay is like a blank peice of paper...It will learn what it will see. Side effects of too many relationships IMO

That's simply untrue for all cases. I know plenty of gay people who come from extremely conservative households, I also know that homosexual couples raising children don't turn out to be gay, but they do tend to be a lot more open minded about the world 😉

LOL. The cause of homosexuality has nothing to do with your families political preferences. Come on....that's the best you've got?

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: CrazyApe
Thanks for the personal attack. Keep your anger out of the argument.

Oh, yeah, there was so much Raw Hatred in that post. Grow a skin.

So if this person has ONLY heterosexual encounters until he/she goes to prison and LIKES these encounters, he/she would still be a homosexual????

Yep, or possibly bisexual.

Oh, and how does this statement:

"That heterosexual has a mutual encounter with another inmate of the same sex, not because he/she is forced, but because it "just happened". "

equal this statement:

"Oh, and just because someone got man-raped in prison does not make them gay. It makes them a victim."

???????????????????????

It doesn't, thus the "Oh, and" precluding my sentence, which is an addition to the above. :roll:

OMG EXPLAINX0R TAHT!!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!??!?!??!!11111!1/1//1?!?!?!?/1/!?1?!/11!?/1/1?!?!?1?1!

- M4H

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: hatim
its all about upbringing. A babay is like a blank peice of paper...It will learn what it will see. Side effects of too many relationships IMO

That's simply untrue for all cases. I know plenty of gay people who come from extremely conservative households, I also know that homosexual couples raising children don't turn out to be gay, but they do tend to be a lot more open minded about the world 😉

LOL. The cause of homosexuality has nothing to do with your families political preferences. Come on....that's the best you've got?

Right, because "Conservative" always applies to political affiliation and not style of parenting. :roll:

- M4H

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: CrazyApe

Originally posted by: Eli
Anybody who says it's a choice is a stupid fscking retarded moron who needs to wake up and sniff the real world.

Think about it. Do you "choose" to like women? NO. You just do.

You can't make yourself like the same sex any easier than a homosexual can make themseves like the opposite sex. It's as simple as that.

Sorry. I just hate it when people can't put themselves in other peoples shoes and look at things realistically, instead letting their egos cloud their infantile brains.

What if a heterosexual who has never even thought of homosexual activity goes to jail for 30 years. That heterosexual has a mutual encounter with another inmate of the same sex, not because he/she is forced, but because it "just happened". That heterosexual likes the encounter and has many more over his/her 30 years of confinement.
Now, 30 years later, this person (we can't call him/her a hetero anymore) goes out into the real world again and finds that he/she can't get excited by the opposite sex anymore. This person has to have same-sex encounters to enjoy himself/herself. This person became a homosexual by LEARNED BEHAVIOR.

"Sorry. I just hate it when people can't put themselves in other peoples shoes and look at things realistically, instead letting their egos cloud their infanitle brains."

It doesen't matter. The situation is still the same. It's hard wired. It isn't a conscious decision.

It may be "learned behavior", but it is NOT their choice. This would fall into the "nurture" side of things.

If it's by nurture then it can't be by birth.

I never said that it was for-sure by birth. I just said that it is not a choice.

Then we're agreeing. Dude, you're a fundamentalist neocon!!!!!

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Insane3D
You still avoided it. If it was simply a matter of choice, or upbringing factors, why would it occur in nature?

It exists in the animal kingdom primarily as playful behavior--along the lines of poo flinging--or dominence asserting.

Where does it exist in the animal kingdom outside of playing around or asserting a pecking order? You sound so sure, I'm sure you have numerous cases lined up to share.

Nope, just posing a question. Thanks for answering, even though your answer doesn't wash IMO.

🙂

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: hatim
its all about upbringing. A babay is like a blank peice of paper...It will learn what it will see. Side effects of too many relationships IMO

That's simply untrue for all cases. I know plenty of gay people who come from extremely conservative households, I also know that homosexual couples raising children don't turn out to be gay, but they do tend to be a lot more open minded about the world 😉

LOL. The cause of homosexuality has nothing to do with your families political preferences. Come on....that's the best you've got?

Conservative means more than a political stance you idiot, read between the lines.

 

HeroOfPellinor you're getting your ass handed to you on a platter, with data to back it up.
I would quit while you're far behind.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: SampSon
HeroOfPellinor you're getting your ass handed to you on a platter, with data to back it up.
I would quit while you're far behind.

Maybe he likes having his ass handed around, but he just doesn't know it yet. 😉

- M4H

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: Insane3D
You still avoided it. If it was simply a matter of choice, or upbringing factors, why would it occur in nature?

It exists in the animal kingdom primarily as playful behavior--along the lines of poo flinging--or dominence asserting.

Where does it exist in the animal kingdom outside of playing around or asserting a pecking order? You sound so sure, I'm sure you have numerous cases lined up to share.

WTF?

So when male monkey has sex with another male monkey, it's just "playful behavior", but when a human male has sex with another human male, it is teh evil homosexuality?

Monkey flings poo at other monkey and that's playful behavior, but when I try it I get arrested....WTF? As I said, animals do all kinds of weird stuff for all kinds of reasons, I'm not sure we should be modelling our society after them.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Chadder007
Also....how does the Gay "gene" keep reintroducing itself into more people? Gays cannot Biologically have kids together so their genes aren't spread. If more and more people are coming out....being Gay, then how is this gene spreading if they aren't reproducing more and more with Hetros?

Simple: It's not a gene.

That certainly doesen't mean it can't be from birth, though. It could be any billions of developmental "errors" while each of your brain's 100 billion brain cells are developing.