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Is homosexuality by choice or by birth?
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what the hell does manifest destiny have to do with anything? What a pointless post. The comparisn is so off, that im ahsmaed of myself for replying to your post. To say that choice and manifest destiny are opposites when it comes to someones sexual preference is ludicrous.
Nebor
Lifer
W...T....F... Did you like, try to get extra high by propelling your cocaine with spray paint this time?
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
I know 2 guys that are identical twins, one is openly straight, has kids, married. the other is openly gay.
Also I want to jump in for Netopia. I know him IRL and he is a kind, intelligent and considerate. He is not a bigot in any way, but IS strongly guided by religion. He is one of the few who follow their religious beliefs even when they are difficult and not popular. Tonight is a case of MFH giving more persecution to a man who is standing up for his religious beliefs. And Netopia is always civil - something some others never are...
I however am not as kind as Netopia. MFH stop being an ignorant jerk! You act like a childish teenage F-tard in thread after thread. It is not hard to tell he's trying to have a real discussion. Quit the thread crapping.
And it seems clear to me that in the theoretical example of Doctors knowing the cause of homosexuality, a cure could be pre-natal medicine, or laser surgery, or anything. Why do you ASSume that the only cure can be killing the baby. I think that tells more about your emotional baggage...
I however am not as kind as Netopia. MFH stop being an ignorant jerk! You act like a childish teenage F-tard in thread after thread. It is not hard to tell he's trying to have a real discussion. Quit the thread crapping.
And it seems clear to me that in the theoretical example of Doctors knowing the cause of homosexuality, a cure could be pre-natal medicine, or laser surgery, or anything. Why do you ASSume that the only cure can be killing the baby. I think that tells more about your emotional baggage...
Nebor
Lifer
I like how you repeatedly refer to a "cure," that's worth a lot of respect, and definitely causes others to take you seriously..... :roll:
The problem with you and your buddy is that you're not here for a discussion. Your minds aren't going to change. You don't want them to change. That's why you get torn down by open minded people like M4H. Just because Netopia types out paragraphs of coherent sentences voicing his religious views doesn't mean he's not ignorant.
Ignorance is not allowing yourself to think outside the box. Maybe your box is The Koran, maybe it's the Bible, maybe it's a law book.
Another part I loved:
I like how you say that with absolute certainty. Good to know you have it all figured out. You've ascertained that that's true 100% of the time? Tell me, in your case, were you molested, or did you have a 'crappy father'? Oh, you're not gay? Then where the fvck do you get off stating exactly what makes people gay.
Gah, dealing with close-minded bible haulers just pisses me off.
Lovepig, in order for you to understand what open-mindedness is, look at the replies from all the gay members on the board. None of them even chose one single option, they all thought it was a combination of things, or they weren't sure. Hell, I'm gay, and I haven't a clue why. But I'm not going to make up a bullshit reason, and then never ever consider any OTHER reason.
Maybe this is a change in our human revolusion. We are becoming more like earth worm.. which is A sexual. But then, earth worm has the equipment while those gay/lesbian has only the 'thought'.
I believe the humon that control which equipment U should have also control which sex U should attract to. So if U attract to the wrong sex, maybe it is by learn/choice/wrong wire connect in the head.
I believe the humon that control which equipment U should have also control which sex U should attract to. So if U attract to the wrong sex, maybe it is by learn/choice/wrong wire connect in the head.
Lovepig, thanks for the charecter support. Also, just FYI for everyone else, Lovepig and I are at odds with one another religiously. He and I both have religious beliefs that the other thinks are either totally false, horribly misleading or badly lacking. We both feel this STRONGLY... and yet neither feels "condemned" by the other. Some of our "beliefs" might stand in condemnation one to another, but that is VERY different from condemning the person. Homomaniacs (my new inverse word to the oft thrown around homophobe) can't seem to seperate and action or belief from the person who acts or believes. They seem to think that if I say "heroin addiction is evil and should be done away with" that what is really being said is "heroin addicts should all be hunted down and killed". I don't know why they cannot seem to comprehend the idea of hating and action or belief while still loving the PERSON. There are many of cases (though I must admit that they are the minority by a exponential margin) of Christians who have acted kindly and prayed for those WHO WERE TORTURING THEM and eventually won those people over! The torturers themselves understood that while the tortured hated the act of torture, they still loved and valued the torturer.
LOL... I was eating breakfast and reading the threads and didn't notice that this wasn't Lovepig posting BECAUSE THE SAME COULD EQUALLY HAVE BEEN HIM TALKING ABOUT YOU! So, are you really saying that your mind is open to change? That you're open to the idea that homosexual sex is wrong? If not, I suggest that you put all parties into that class and not just your opposition.
As for the relationship with Dad or Mom thing... I've dealt with former homosexuals who didn't want to be. In each case there was some underlying problem... a molestation, a cold and distant father, an abusive mother... etc. I'm NOT saying that this is the 100% cause of all homosexuality, but in the cases I've been around where people felt "wrong" being homosexual, there was always some historic scenario that seemed the cause. Interestingly, these people's "friends" in the homosexual community would often become VERY angry at them when they heard that they wanted to change. In one case, the guy was even getting messages left on his answering machine from "friends" with messages like "who the F*CK do you think you are! You can't change" or "you're a traitor, you're fooling yourself and making us all look bad"... and the like. The only reason I could ever come up with for these people suddenly being so angry was that if HE could change and actually wasn't hardwired homosexual, then maybe that meant they could change too... but they didn't want that pressure, so they hated him for even trying. Maybe there were other reasons, but that one seemed the most likely.
Joe
LOL... I was eating breakfast and reading the threads and didn't notice that this wasn't Lovepig posting BECAUSE THE SAME COULD EQUALLY HAVE BEEN HIM TALKING ABOUT YOU! So, are you really saying that your mind is open to change? That you're open to the idea that homosexual sex is wrong? If not, I suggest that you put all parties into that class and not just your opposition.
As for the relationship with Dad or Mom thing... I've dealt with former homosexuals who didn't want to be. In each case there was some underlying problem... a molestation, a cold and distant father, an abusive mother... etc. I'm NOT saying that this is the 100% cause of all homosexuality, but in the cases I've been around where people felt "wrong" being homosexual, there was always some historic scenario that seemed the cause. Interestingly, these people's "friends" in the homosexual community would often become VERY angry at them when they heard that they wanted to change. In one case, the guy was even getting messages left on his answering machine from "friends" with messages like "who the F*CK do you think you are! You can't change" or "you're a traitor, you're fooling yourself and making us all look bad"... and the like. The only reason I could ever come up with for these people suddenly being so angry was that if HE could change and actually wasn't hardwired homosexual, then maybe that meant they could change too... but they didn't want that pressure, so they hated him for even trying. Maybe there were other reasons, but that one seemed the most likely.
Joe
Well, that certainly was a long and worthless ramble.
The question isn't whether it can be "cured" or not, the question is, why should it? And that is where you use your personal beliefs and thump your bible for a bit, i am sorry, but that just doesn't work as a logical argument.
When it comes to "curing" the ONLY worthwhile studies i have examined points to a part of the brain that is not developed in the male brain among homosexuals as it is among heterosexuals, it is believed to be because the mother did not produce enough nandrolone (or nor-testosterone if you so will) during pregnancy (of course, this does not explain the occurance of lesbians). The treatment that was tried was of course to give the subjects norandrolone, which made them very horny gays, the result was a disappointment to the "christian science" community.
The simple fact is that there is nothing wrong with them and if you cannot see that then YOU are the one who should search for a cure.
I've yet to say that any "cure" needs to exist. What I've spoken of is preventive. You yourself have pointed to a study that shows that there is (at least in some cases) an underdeveloped part of the brain in homosexuals. I would suggest hormonal testing of mothers (on a voluntary basis, NOT something forced) and if there is indeed a hormonal imbalance, then that could be corrected.
Joe
Joe
MercenaryForHire
Lifer
I've never seen someone contradict themself within a post. Bravo.
Keep on thumping though, I'm getting a great backbeat to rhyme to.
- M4H
Give me ANY proof that it is possible to prevent homosexuality.
The nandrolone COULD be present just not absorbed or it COULD be produced but not able to reach the baby (this is not known and it is still a theory, not valid science), in these cases it could be induced with great risk for mother and child, is it worth it? I think you would have to ask those who ARE gay to see if it is worth trying, this STILL does not explain lesbianism.
Of course, most people and i am sure you are included don't see a problem with female gays, only with male gays which makes 99.9% of that side hypocrites.
I think we should just leave it alone and treat it as it should be treated, a natural occurance that isn't harmful to anyone and if you do, there is no need for a cure.
I would rather go hunting with Nebor than with your sorry ass and i am straight, what does that tell you?
You know... some people are so dense it's almost laughable.
Let me ask the community at large... is wearing a football helmet to protect the head the same thing as curing brain damage? Is giving a polio vaccine to a child the same as removing someone from an iron lung who's already stricken with polio and pronouncing them cured? Is wearing a condom the same as saying that you have a CURE for AIDS? Yeah... I don't think they're the same either, but some people are simply too dense to understand that.
Klixxer, you bring up some very valid points as to possible outcome of monkeying around with the Mom's hormone levels, and all that would have to be run through tests and trials like any other sort of procedure.
Tells me that you're relatively closed minded and you judge a person in totality because of an opinion on a single issue. Tells me that you quickly drop to name calling and personal attacks because you don't think that your arguement carries enough weight to emphasize what you are trying to say. Tells me that you are more of a bigot than the people who you call bigots. I'd happily go hang out and get to know you or Nebor or whomever because all people have value and worth the time and effort of others, even if they have diametrically opposed beliefs. Sad to think that you think more like the hard core Bible thumpers than you realize.
Joe
Let me ask the community at large... is wearing a football helmet to protect the head the same thing as curing brain damage? Is giving a polio vaccine to a child the same as removing someone from an iron lung who's already stricken with polio and pronouncing them cured? Is wearing a condom the same as saying that you have a CURE for AIDS? Yeah... I don't think they're the same either, but some people are simply too dense to understand that.
Klixxer, you bring up some very valid points as to possible outcome of monkeying around with the Mom's hormone levels, and all that would have to be run through tests and trials like any other sort of procedure.
Tells me that you're relatively closed minded and you judge a person in totality because of an opinion on a single issue. Tells me that you quickly drop to name calling and personal attacks because you don't think that your arguement carries enough weight to emphasize what you are trying to say. Tells me that you are more of a bigot than the people who you call bigots. I'd happily go hang out and get to know you or Nebor or whomever because all people have value and worth the time and effort of others, even if they have diametrically opposed beliefs. Sad to think that you think more like the hard core Bible thumpers than you realize.
Joe
MercenaryForHire
Lifer
Is homosexuality the same as brain damage, polio, or AIDS? Discuss.
- M4H
MercenaryForHire
Lifer
But they aren't human! They're Sick Twisted Dirty Satan Spawn! The big book said so!
- M4H
It should tell you that i do not think anyone being homosexual is anything abnormal, but no, it can't be as simple as that to you, can it?
You don't seem to realize something here, it is not that you wouldn't want to hang out with me and Nebor, it is that we wouldn't want your sorry ass to come with us.
You see, you are a bigot, you can claim that you are not but the fact remains, you are intolerant.
Keep thumping though, i am working up a nice rhythm.
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
Klixxer, are you to tell me that you are somehow tolerant of my beliefs while I'm not of yours? It would seem that you are the pot calling the kettle black.
As for abnormal...
Main Entry: 1ab·nor·mal
Pronunciation: (")ab-'nor-m&l, &b-
Function: adjective
Etymology: alteration of French anormal, from Medieval Latin anormalis, from Latin a- + Late Latin normalis normal
: deviating from the normal or average :
So saying that I'm left handed and that lefthandedness is abnormal would be somehow disrespecting me as a person? The norm is that people are right handed and my lefthandedness IS abnormal. So what's your point, except for you to show that you've got your own personal definitions of words and expect the world to adhere to them. I hope you don't carry definitions like this forward in math.... you'll fail miserably!
Joe
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
Klixxer, are you to tell me that you are somehow tolerant of my beliefs while I'm not of yours? It would seem that you are the pot calling the kettle black.
As for abnormal...
Main Entry: 1ab·nor·mal
Pronunciation: (")ab-'nor-m&l, &b-
Function: adjective
Etymology: alteration of French anormal, from Medieval Latin anormalis, from Latin a- + Late Latin normalis normal
: deviating from the normal or average :
So saying that I'm left handed and that lefthandedness is abnormal would be somehow disrespecting me as a person? The norm is that people are right handed and my lefthandedness IS abnormal. So what's your point, except for you to show that you've got your own personal definitions of words and expect the world to adhere to them. I hope you don't carry definitions like this forward in math.... you'll fail miserably!
Joe
lordtyranus
Banned
Homosexuality falls in line with diseases like autism and other mental illnesses present at birth. Your 3 examples are either physical or affect other parts of the body, and thus I don't think the analogy fits.
I think there is some evidence that genetics may be involved somehow, which means there could be a cure someday.
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