Is he right about scandisk

[Robgeek]

These were my backup drives!!!
I just was stupid enough to think microsoft tool would not mess anything up, so now I have two opinions one from Mushkins saying

CHKDSK isn't doing CRCs of your files, it has no "correct" or uncorrupted CRC value stored to compare it to. As has been pointed out ad nauseum, it is far more worried about the file system than it is any sort of data integrity.

and Cerbs opinion

Not generally. Each of those video files has data about it stored on the disk. That data is what is checked and verified. It may be a CRC check, but it might also be a list improperly updated, if the file was being written to when it was rudely unmounted, or some metadata connected to that file was being updated in that time.

which one is right??? they both seem different.

So let me just get this straight the CRC check according to Scott always comes up with false results this is what he last told me

The simple thing is that there is 2 numbers in a record and if the record has two different numbers by accident, Scandisk will destroy the file no matter if the drive is good or bad.

so I have'nt unproperly unmounted a disk or anything like that, I have'nt scanned my drives in bootup, I stupidly did a scan using tools > error-checking with no options ticked and my fat one did not even scan properly, probably due to it being fat, the other scanned but said file system found and I did not repair it becoz I don't want to make things worse.

So the possibility of the video files being corrupted is very low, am i right?
and if i did have the options ticked the scan could of altered my data so it had errors in the video or the video just did'nt run at all, but that would only be if the scan found errors in the first place and even if it did find errors the chances of it deleteting/corrupting/making a video glitchy are very high?

Please reply, and if you can straight answers for a complete noob please.
and sorry to be such a pain.

 

[Robgeek]

To let anyone who is interested know. Significant CROSS posting to many other forums.

Some guy (coincidentally with the same name and same problem, in the last 2 weeks), has been posting this stuff to many different forums. I have NOT listed ALL the links here. I have removed any which were caused by this silly website(s) which seem to copy everything posted on here, to just leave the genuine ones.
The microsoft website (alone) has many threads that he started, so many that a mod or someone actually complains and asks for it to be sorted out (merged).

Examples :-

http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/357395-Can-checkdisk-corrupt-my-videos-on-portable-harddrive-anyway?p=2253972

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-1732670/techies-advice-checkdisk-scanning.html

http://hardware.forumsee.com/a/m/s/p12-29264-0163052--right-about-scandisk.html

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vista-performance/what-do-you-think-of-this-guys-advice/aa7e5620-d529-4e04-9d2e-67af02ee0388

N.B. There are others, but I have lost patience with creating a FULL list, sorry.

Yes I posted those, the only reason I posted on other forums was to find answers, as people were not answering in most of the other forums, except one or two.

You know when you want to make sure of something you ask for a lot of opinions, thats what i'm doing.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Yes I posted those, the only reason I posted on other forums was to find answers, as people were not answering in most of the other forums, except one or two.

You know when you want to make sure of something you ask for a lot of opinions, thats what i'm doing.

Why not just FORGET about Chkdsk.

And just use backups and a highly recommended disK utility and/or HDD supplied Utility ?

What is the point in asking 1,000,000 questions about Chkdsk ?

If you want to understand Chkdsk and computers, then go on a course, google "Chkdsk", etc etc.

 

[Robgeek]

Why not just FORGET about Chkdsk.

And just use backups and a highly recommended disK utility and/or HDD supplied Utility ?

What is the point in asking 1,000,000 questions about Chkdsk ?

If you want to understand Chkdsk and computers, then go on a course, google "Chkdsk", etc etc.

Ouch, well I have actually googled them with no results so I turned to the computer forums I did'nt want to ask again so much, but I got tired waiting for answers on many forums, and then I stumbled on this one which has been very helpful so if someone could pleaseeee answer my last question I will stop asking questions, yay.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Ouch, well I have actually googled them with no results so I turned to the computer forums I did'nt want to ask again so much, but I got tired waiting for answers on many forums, and then I stumbled on this one which has been very helpful so if someone could pleaseeee answer my last question I will stop asking questions, yay.

In a number of other peoples posts (I searched and found a significant pile of your forum posts, ALL about Chkdsk), you sometimes just ignored peoples responses.

I found a number of your posts, I lost some of them, and don't want to go searching again for them.

Why did you not listen to the mod(s) or forum user(s), who were complaining about your posting ?
(The complaint seemed to be about making many threads about the same subject, on the same forum, and a mod to merge them was suggested).

 

[Robgeek]

In a number of other peoples posts (I searched and found a big pile of your forum posts, ALL about Chkdsk), you often just ignored peoples responses.

I found so many of your posts, I lost a pile of them, and don't want to go searching again for them.

Why did you not listen to the mod(s) or forum user(s), who were complaining about your posting ?

I would of if I had seen it, obviously I wasn't getting any notifications that there were posts, sorry.

I did'nt think I ignored anyones response, if I saw it I usually replied. I'm really sorry.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I would of if I had seen it, obviously I wasn't getting any notifications that there were posts, sorry.

I did'nt think I ignored anyones response, if I saw it I usually replied. I'm really sorry.

They were trying to ask you questions, so they could help you, and you seemed to just disappear.

What computer OS are you using, i.e. What version of windows ?
This may help anyone else trying to answer your questions.

 

[Cerb]

These were my backup drives!!!
I just was stupid enough to think microsoft tool would not mess anything up, so now I have two opinions one from Mushkins saying

and Cerbs opinion which one is right??? they both seem different.

Not different (as in contradictory), but not talking about exactly the same thing the same way.

TMK, the only currently-usable FSes that CRC file data are ZFS (Solaris, FreeBSD, and now Linux), ReFS (some Windows OSes), and BTRFS (Linux).

Not using those FSes, checksums are mostly a property of the disk. Chkdsk will report any bad ones, and try to repair the system from data loss if that happens. Sometimes, that involves pretending a bunch of files don't exist, anymore, if information about them was bad. In that kind of scenario, you can often, but not always, by not having it fix errors, successfully read the data, prior to either having chkdsk fix it, reformatting, throwing away or RMAing the drive, etc.. But, that's a data recovery situation, where you already are pretty sure the drive, or the data, is to some degree, FUBAR, and you want to get what you can from it.

So let me just get this straight the CRC check according to Scott always comes up with false results

No, just that if it can't discern which is correct when it finds two sets of entries, both are considered bad. If just one entry in a bad spot, where much of the data needed is gone, it's got to replace the bad data with good data...which usually means data about nothing existing there.

The file system checking and repair tools care about the system, less so the data in it. It will err on the side of removing files and directories, rather than try to guess. Guessing is for users with data recovery tools. Most file recovery tools give you some indication of the chance of recovery, and/or give you their best guess, and let you see some details to decide if you want to try it or not.

 

[Robgeek]

They were trying to ask you questions, so they could help you, and you seemed to just disappear.

What computer OS are you using, i.e. What version of windows ?
This may help anyone else trying to answer your questions.

I have a slight feeling your trying to make me feel bad. :whiste:
I really don't know what happened there, I must'nt of received the notifications do you know what forum post?

 

[Robgeek]

Not different (as in contradictory), but not talking about exactly the same thing the same way.

TMK, the only currently-usable FSes that CRC file data are ZFS (Solaris, FreeBSD, and now Linux), ReFS (some Windows OSes), and BTRFS (Linux).

Not using those FSes, checksums are mostly a property of the disk. Chkdsk will report any bad ones, and try to repair the system from data loss if that happens. Sometimes, that involves pretending a bunch of files don't exist, anymore, if information about them was bad. In that kind of scenario, you can often, but not always, by not having it fix errors, successfully read the data, prior to either having chkdsk fix it, reformatting, throwing away or RMAing the drive, etc.. But, that's a data recovery situation, where you already are pretty sure the drive, or the data, is to some degree, FUBAR, and you want to get what you can from it.

No, just that if it can't discern which is correct when it finds two sets of entries, both are considered bad. If just one entry in a bad spot, where much of the data needed is gone, it's got to replace the bad data with good data...which usually means data about nothing existing there.

The file system checking and repair tools care about the system, less so the data in it. It will err on the side of removing files and directories, rather than try to guess. Guessing is for users with data recovery tools. Most file recovery tools give you some indication of the chance of recovery, and/or give you their best guess, and let you see some details to decide if you want to try it or not.

So basically if the options are ticked then theres no problem, it won't try to correct anything?, but if it was checked and does correct chances are the data may be missing or corrupted in which case I would certainly know?

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I have a slight feeling your trying to make me feel bad. :whiste:
I really don't know what happened there, I must'nt of received the notifications do you know what forum post?

Example of complaining thread

Example of one of your UNANSWERED threads

Another example of an unanswered thread

 

[Robgeek]

Example of complaining thread

Example of one of your UNANSWERED threads

Another example of an unanswered thread

This here
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...eo-files/160b8857-3761-4e87-9378-89c3cda1e35b

is a good example of why I posted on other forums, the other one was merged and for good reason and this http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...eo-files/160b8857-3761-4e87-9378-89c3cda1e35b here I remember seeing once in my email but lost it later in my hundreds of emails and forgot to reply, so please stop making me out to be the villain when I'm just asking questions.
I apoligize for all the questions and annoying people I just was worried is all about my videos is all.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I apoligize for all the questions and annoying people I just was worried is all about my videos is all.

Ok, thanks (on behalf of the other forums) for the apology.

It would be nice to know what version of windows you are using ?

 

[Robgeek]

That's okay, sorry I was such a bother in this forum too.
I am using Windows Vista Home Premium, I go to tools > checknow and scan.
I'm actually starting to hate computers after all this, you do a scan thinking it will only help and it actually can make things worse.

I miss amiga.

 

[Cerb]

This here
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...eo-files/160b8857-3761-4e87-9378-89c3cda1e35b

MS' various forums are just wrong. Form-filled answers get posted and marked, and threads locked, not even reading the OP's questions. Frustrating and useless is what they are, even if you do speak computer. I can't count the number of times I've gone to a link where someone posted just the problem I'm having, and an MS person posts something completely unrelated, marks it as an answer, politely berates the OP when they reply, or anyone else tries to actually help, or they just reply with the exact same non-answer again, and often, they lock it afterwards. It's not just answers.microsoft.com that's like that.

Don't hate computers. Hate that markets tend to like cheap things; that committees prefer to bicker over minor crap, instead of advancing their standards in great ways; and that big companies, like MS and Apple, aren't proactive about technical excellence or technological concerns, if they don't involve their short-term bottom lines.

 

[Robgeek]

so to try and summarise , With checkdisk then it will delete/corrupt video if errors are found in filesystem/badsectors, but only ONLY if the harddrive is bad already. and a new harddrive can easily have bad sectors on it, but if I do a readonly scan(no options ticked) nothing will be altered/deleted, also a video that does get altered in the repair process will be fully corrupted/unplayable or have a bit of it unplayable, at least.

And what scott says is wrong about crc checks?

 

[Robgeek]

Who here misses the Amiga?

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Who here misses the Amiga?

You can probably get free emulators and probably the software that goes with it (games etc), for playing on your current computer, if you want to bring back fond memories. Available on the web.

Sorry if I have come to the wrong conclusion, when I discovered many cross-posts you have done.

MS' various forums are just wrong. Form-filled answers get posted and marked, and threads locked, not even reading the OP's questions. Frustrating and useless is what they are, even if you do speak computer. I can't count the number of times I've gone to a link where someone posted just the problem I'm having, and an MS person posts something completely unrelated, marks it as an answer, politely berates the OP when they reply, or anyone else tries to actually help, or they just reply with the exact same non-answer again, and often, they lock it afterwards. It's not just answers.microsoft.com that's like that.

I did not know that Microsoft forums were so bad/problematic.
Sorry if I have over-reacted to cross-forum posts, which I discovered, and were of concern to me.

 

[Robgeek]

You can probably get free emulators and probably the software that goes with it (games etc), for playing on your current computer, if you want to bring back fond memories. Available on the web.

Sorry if I have come to the wrong conclusion, when I discovered many cross-posts you have done.



I did not know that Microsoft forums were so bad/problematic.
Sorry if I have over-reacted to cross-forum posts, which I discovered, and were of concern to me.

Hey your fine, you did'nt overreact I have a way of driving people around me crazy.

I have already driven myself crazy about stupid checkdisk/scandisk or whatever its called, I know everyone says backup, backup and that's what I shall do but for the sake of getting to know this tool like the enemy it truly is, I want to get to know if it can corrupt video files so their totally unplayable or just delete them or add glitches to them, and if having no boxes checked would of done anything?, and how should I go about repairing a filesystem error?

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Hey your fine, you did'nt overreact I have a way of driving people around me crazy.

I have already driven myself crazy about stupid checkdisk/scandisk or whatever its called, I know everyone says backup, backup and that's what I shall do but for the sake of getting to know this tool like the enemy it truly is, I want to get to know if it can corrupt video files so their totally unplayable or just delete them or add glitches to them, and if having no boxes checked would of done anything?, and how should I go about repairing a filesystem error?

What I would seriously suggest you do is abandon Chkdsk/Scandisk, and instead use a much better disk checking utility program. (If other posters want to say Chkdsk/Scandisk is fine, I don't have a problem with that, I'm NOT very knowledgeable about which are the best ones to use, which is why I'm hoping others can advise you).

Either wait in this thread for suggestions on the "best" one, or create a thread in the appropriate section, asking advice on the best disk checking software for Windows Vista.

There have already been suggestion(s) in this thread (from memory), including the HDD manufactures one.

In the (new) thread, if you make one, you can maybe say that a VERY easy to use one, which is LEAST likely to alter data, even if it is faulty (without you telling it to).
Some of these utilities would be free, others not.

But really the best way is a good backup system, then you don't really need disk utilities.
The new thread (if you do this), can completely avoid the term "Chkdsk", Yay!

----------------------------

Or others can advice to NOT do regular disk utility checks on HDDs.

For myself, I like to check that the "SMART" is NOT indicating any impending issues, which I access using the free (slightly better paid version available, I find free one does enough) disk utility called HDTUNE. It lets me do some disk tests as well.

http://www.hdtune.com/

N.B. The above utility is concerned with checking that the physical disk is not showing signs of beginning to break/wear out. It does not check the logical file structures.

 

[Robgeek]

That sounds good, I may not scan the drive anymore or try to fix existing file system errors as it will only do more harm. I have to ask though if any of the videos were damaged by the scan what sort of damage would I expect, unreadable video or minor glitches in the video?.
Someone said on one forum that you might get minor glitches in the video from a scan if it found errors, is this true?

 

[Robgeek]

So checkdisk/scandisk can alter the video?, but only if you set it to repair?, and by altering i mean totally corrupting not changing the quality or adding slight glitches to the film.

someone please reply.

 

[Robgeek]

and when I say corrupting I mean certain parts just wont play at all or will skip over.
How can you check if a video is corrupt?

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

(Changing the subject slightly, but I wanted to say this anyway).

Be very careful when unplugging external USB HDD drives.
Make sure that any files you have written to it, appear to have finished.
E.g. There may be a red flashing light, or some sign that the disk is still writing data to its disk.
They can take a while (up to a minute, maybe longer) to finish, even after it seems to have finished on your screen, because of disk buffering (Caches in windows),
Use the safely use hardware feature, BEFORE removing the USB connection (I assume you know how to do this, I'm not 100% sure if Vista does this).
Similarly, don't switch off the computer or HDD, until it has finished all writing.

If you don't do the above, then it is very possible it will cause logical errors in the stored data (NOT physical HDD damage).

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

and when I say corrupting I mean certain parts just wont play at all or will skip over.
How can you check if a video is corrupt?

Answer, (previously said), This...

What I would seriously suggest you do is abandon Chkdsk/Scandisk, and instead use a much better disk checking utility program. (If other posters want to say Chkdsk/Scandisk is fine, I don't have a problem with that, I'm NOT very knowledgeable about which are the best ones to use, which is why I'm hoping others can advise you).

Either wait in this thread for suggestions on the "best" one, or create a thread in the appropriate section, asking advice on the best disk checking software for Windows Vista.

There have already been suggestion(s) in this thread (from memory), including the HDD manufactures one.

In the (new) thread, if you make one, you can maybe say that a VERY easy to use one, which is LEAST likely to alter data, even if it is faulty (without you telling it to).
Some of these utilities would be free, others not.

But really the best way is a good backup system, then you don't really need disk utilities.
The new thread (if you do this), can completely avoid the term "Chkdsk", Yay!

----------------------------

Or others can advice to NOT do regular disk utility checks on HDDs.

For myself, I like to check that the "SMART" is NOT indicating any impending issues, which I access using the free (slightly better paid version available, I find free one does enough) disk utility called HDTUNE. It lets me do some disk tests as well.

http://www.hdtune.com/

N.B. The above utility is concerned with checking that the physical disk is not showing signs of beginning to break/wear out. It does not check the logical file structures.

The above disk checking utility will be able to check the videos for you, once you are recommended a good one. (HDTUNE checks the PHYSICAL disk, NOT the LOGICAL data, ideally, you want something which checks BOTH).