Is graphic card upgrade worth it?

[Bootleg Betty]

Hi, new here.

I have an old computer and as the performance in games is really terrible these days, I was thinking about upgrade. However, I don't really have money for whole new system, so I was thinking about just upgrading a graphic card (460 maybe?). However, I'm not sure if new graphic card is going to bring me any improvement with slow CPU and stuff. So please give me your wisdom.

My current system is not that old, it was just really cheap at that time. I have:
- athlon 64 x2 4850
- 4 GB DDR2-800 (now come to think of it, that's kindof strange. shouldn't that be 1000?)
- gigabyte MA770-DS3 first rev (so no CPU upgrade with this)
- gigabyte ATI 3870 512 MB
- 1680 x 1050 22" display
- 400W fotron PSU

I play mostly RPGs, and I thought it would be wonderful to be able to play mass effect 2 (por ejemplo) in higher resolution than I have on my macbook, and Fallout New Vegas feels like a slideshow. I'm mostly looking forward to DA2, ME3 and witcher, so I don't think any crysis stuff is likely. Also I'm in the middle of europe, so you fancy neweggs won't work on me.

(... or maybe I should be saving up for a motorcycle instead )

 

[mfenn]

I'd say that you wouldn't want to go much higher than a GTX 460 768MB or 6850, otherwise your CPU would be holding you back too much.

 

[Bootleg Betty]

Okay, thanks.

Should 460 or 6850 be enough for some gaming at 1680?

 

[biostud]

I wouldn't put a new gpu videocard in your system. The CPU is holding you back. I've upgrade my 2.5Ghz A64X2 with a 8800GT to the system in my sig and saw 2-3x framerates simply by upgrading a CPU similar to yours.

 

[betasub]

The cards recommended by mfenn are plenty most games at 1680. But biostud is correct that you'll be held back by your CPU, particularly in games like RPGs that are heavy on the CPU (for all the character interaction/AI calcs). Are you able to overclock your CPU a little? That, along with a new graphics card, might prolong the gaming life of your rig.

 

[mfenn]

I wouldn't put a new gpu videocard in your system. The CPU is holding you back. I've upgrade my 2.5Ghz A64X2 with a 8800GT to the system in my sig and saw 2-3x framerates simply by upgrading a CPU similar to yours.

The cards recommended by mfenn are plenty most games at 1680. But biostud is correct that you'll be held back by your CPU, particularly in games like RPGs that are heavy on the CPU (for all the character interaction/AI calcs). Are you able to overclock your CPU a little? That, along with a new graphics card, might prolong the gaming life of your rig.

I agree that the OP really needs a new CPU and GPU. However, the nice thing about getting the GPU first is that the OP can easily carry it over to a new system if he still isn't happy with the performance. ME2, for example ain't exactly a CPU-dependent game.

 

[Bootleg Betty]

The cards recommended by mfenn are plenty most games at 1680. But biostud is correct that you'll be held back by your CPU, particularly in games like RPGs that are heavy on the CPU (for all the character interaction/AI calcs). Are you able to overclock your CPU a little? That, along with a new graphics card, might prolong the gaming life of your rig.

I might try to overclock it, there's a guide somewhere on the forum, right? I'll look into it.

I agree that the OP really needs a new CPU and GPU.

Yes, but the motherboard doesn't support any new CPU and new motherboard + CPU + memory is currently too expensive for me.

However, the nice thing about getting the GPU first is that the OP can easily carry it over to a new system if he still isn't happy with the performance. ME2, for example ain't exactly a CPU-dependent game.

That was the general idea. If I get a 460, do I get to use it in a year with new CPU and MB and stuff, or is it going to be terribly obsolete at that time?

EDIT: also, is there a way to find out if I'm being held back by CPU or GPU in any particular game?

 

[mfenn]

That was the general idea. If I get a 460, do I get to use it in a year with new CPU and MB and stuff, or is it going to be terribly obsolete at that time?

The GTX 460 will certainly be outclassed in a year. However a $0 GPU beats pretty much anything else in terms of bang for the buck when you build your next machine!

EDIT: also, is there a way to find out if I'm being held back by CPU or GPU in any particular game?

The best way to tell is to run the game at the lowest resolution and detail level possible. If the game doesn't run much faster, then you're CPU limited. If the game does run faster, you're GPU limited.

 

[Bootleg Betty]

So I tried to run Fallout: New Vegas with the lowest setting ever (1024x768, no AA, nothing) and I got about 40 FPS. Does that mean I can't really play it on 1680 even with 460? :'(

(unless FRAPS degrades performance or something. but I doubt it)

Also, I tried overclocking but the highest multiplier I could set was 12 which is kind of strange, as set no auto the CPU is (according to cpu-z) is running on 12.5. So I upped the FSB instead from 200 to 233 for 2.9 Ghz. No troubles with temperature (42 degrees C) but applications and system services started crashing left and right.

 

[mfenn]

What is your framerate at normal settings? If 40 FPS isn't an improvement, then yes you are CPU limited.

Unless you have a special CPU with unlocked multiplier, you're going to have to overclock with the FSB (well it's not really an "FSB" in an Athlon 64, but whatever). Regarding your temps, frequency doesn't really affect temperatures that much. Voltage is what really causes the temps to climb. Since your system wasn't stable at 2.9 with stock volts, you'll likely need to bump it up a bit.

 

[Bootleg Betty]

What is your framerate at normal settings? If 40 FPS isn't an improvement, then yes you are CPU limited.

On normal settings I get about 5 FPS on that location hmm.

Maybe it's just a bad game.

Unless you have a special CPU with unlocked multiplier, you're going to have to overclock with the FSB (well it's not really an "FSB" in an Athlon 64, but whatever). Regarding your temps, frequency doesn't really affect temperatures that much. Voltage is what really causes the temps to climb. Since your system wasn't stable at 2.9 with stock volts, you'll likely need to bump it up a bit.

Ok, I thought modern CPUs have unlocked multipliers. It's probably showing that the last CPU I overclocked was Celeron 300A

 

[biostud]

Ok, I thought modern CPUs have unlocked multipliers. It's probably showing that the last CPU I overclocked was Celeron 300A

Some have unlocked multipliers, but you pay a little extra. For AMD it's called "Black Edition", for Intel the CPU has K in its numbers like i7-975K.

 

[mfenn]

On normal settings I get about 5 FPS on that location hmm.

Maybe it's just a bad game.

Ok, I thought modern CPUs have unlocked multipliers. It's probably showing that the last CPU I overclocked was Celeron 300A

5 -> 40 FPS is a definite sign of GPU limitation. A new GPU would improve your framerates at normal settings, keeping in mind that 40FPS is the best you can expect from your CPU.

 

[Bootleg Betty]

Since your system wasn't stable at 2.9 with stock volts, you'll likely need to bump it up a bit.

I tried that, but even with 1.4 V (from 1.2 V according to BIOS) the system was crashing all around. I'm not sure whether 1.6 V is a good idea, so it looks no overclocking for me.

 

[betasub]

That's sad that you can't find a stable overclock

Still, your test makes it look like a graphics card upgrade should give some noticable benefits. Good luck!

 

[Bootleg Betty]

Yes, I'll get 6850 (costs about 255 USD here) or 460 1G (about 230 USD here) and some (hopefully) cheap sandy bridge stuff later next year. Thank you all!

EDIT: probably the nvidia one. ATI made me mad with KOTOR 2 drivers and I might dabble into CUDA for my university research.