Is Ford Motor Company Done?

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ironwing

The capital does not stay in America. It goes to build plants elsewhere. Ask Iacoca what he did with the loans he got the federal loan guarantees for. Profits go where ever the investors live. That might be America, might be Europe, Japan, Middle East...

Uhhh, NO.

Profit is profit. Capital is capital. They are different. Linked by the balance sheet, but still different.

Profits go to the head company. That company can then decide what to do with the profit. Capital can be used to build plants in other countries, but the profit still goes to the head.

Every car you buy from foreign companies goes directly into their pocket. If they choose to reinvest this as capital projects for new plants then they will do so. But the money still goes to the head. Eitherway it's their choice.

Profits ultimately flow back to investors either as dividends or as stock appreciation. That a company maintains a headquarters or corporate charter in any particular country means little. Corporations are ultimately owned by individuals. These individual stock owners may reside anywhere.

Not really. I don't want to get into it in this thread but for the most part stockholders hold very little voting power in the norm. Sure they have it but they don't use it. I mean we're talking about FORD. Stockholders can't steer the ship.

 

[mrrman]

I think the whole North American auto industry is shot

 

[natto fire]

Let's hope not. They built some really tough trucks in their day, and I speak that from 100% experience.

I didn't read the rest of this thread, as I assumed it was the same-old recycled garbage of the same people arguing where an automobile was made.

 

[Perknose]

The Ford nameplate will endure beyond the piston engine itself, but what form the actual company will take and who will own it and where its vehicles will be produced is another matter.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: mrrman
I think the whole North American auto industry is shot

I think GM is turning around and have several compelling cars that i would definately buy. The other 2, not so much...

 

[chuckywang]

I fail to see how a company that does over $2 billion worth of sales per year is "done."

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: chuckywang
I fail to see how a company that does over $2 billion worth of sales per year is "done."

Maybe they incurred over $2 billion in expenses per year?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yep. Eventually one investment group or another will decide the stock price is low enough to cut a deal with the Ford family, take a big stake in the company, and pour money into it.

However, the permanent fix for Ford, GM, and other large American industrial companies is national health insurance. Remove the burden of providing health insurance for workers and retirees from these companies and their financial position improves dramatically.

That is not even close to being factual or truthful.....maybe whisical or fanciful...

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

that is a good point. Ford Europe did bail Ford USA out in the early 80's during the first japanese invasion.

Antidomestic sentiment is stronger than i've ever seen it before. shoot, i bought my first non domestic car recently, albeit a Kia Sedona.

Part of this is the realization by consumers that it isn't possible to know where a car is built anymore. A Toyota might be 100% Japan or 100% US or a hodgepodge of parts from all over. Ditto for Ford/Mazda. In the age of international labor arbitrage names mean nothing. Why should I buy American when the American car company I'm buying from buys their parts in Mexico/China?

Because the profits and capital stay in america. It's really that simple.

As far as knowing where a car is built and where the parts come from, it is clearly printed on the sticker.

Oh that's such a crock of shit. Do you really think that's true? It really isn't that simple. Ford spends billions of dollars all over the planet. They buy parts from China, manufacture vehicles in Mexico and Canada, have shareholders all over the world, just like every other major automobile manufacturer on the planet. How many Americans do you suppose own stock in Toyota? When it comes to cars, the phrase "made in America" doesn't mean much more than it does for a Toyota...or a BMW...or a Honda.

Actually, I'd venture a guess that a good portion of the profits go directly to CEOs and to fund the fat pension plans of retired executives and the rest go to investing in foreign ventures because that's where the real growth potential is. How much of the profit from your latest GM purchase is going toward funding growth in China?

 

[IGBT]

..ford always competes at price point not quality. they trash out faster then GM or Chry.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yep. Eventually one investment group or another will decide the stock price is low enough to cut a deal with the Ford family, take a big stake in the company, and pour money into it.

However, the permanent fix for Ford, GM, and other large American industrial companies is national health insurance. Remove the burden of providing health insurance for workers and retirees from these companies and their financial position improves dramatically.

um.. no

i prefer my taxes to stay relatively low.
i prefer to be seen by my doctor within a day or 2 of when i call, no matter what the ailment.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
I'm torn.

I love the idea of Ford. The Ford family. Ford Mustangs. Ford trucks.


I also hate the fact that American automakers took a backseat to imports. I can't even BEGIN to consider an American car until they prove themselves for AT LEAST 5 years!!

Fusion......(not America's gift, despite Ford's attempt to prove it so)

Malibu.........ditto

Aura........ditto

Sebring.........ditto


If they want to prove themselves to me..........they need to earn my trust. EARN! One year, does not a great car company make.

This is a problem. During the 90s it seems like American automakers forgot that its much harder to get a new customer then it is to keep an existing one. Now, after pissing all over their customers for a decade they're crying about how their cars are better now...great if they are! Now keep doing that for decade or so any maybe all the people that threw up their hands and said "never again!" might...MIGHT give you a second look.

 

[lokiju]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yep. Eventually one investment group or another will decide the stock price is low enough to cut a deal with the Ford family, take a big stake in the company, and pour money into it.

However, the permanent fix for Ford, GM, and other large American industrial companies is national health insurance. Remove the burden of providing health insurance for workers and retirees from these companies and their financial position improves dramatically.

Or....


Just throwing this out there, though it'd screw all the current and future retirees.

Do away with the unions, move everything out of the country as a method of accomplishing this and then move them back shortly after and "restart" with no unions.

Look at Toyota and Subaru, they're able to do well and manufacture in the USA.

I'm no expert though, just a thought.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: lokiju

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yep. Eventually one investment group or another will decide the stock price is low enough to cut a deal with the Ford family, take a big stake in the company, and pour money into it.

However, the permanent fix for Ford, GM, and other large American industrial companies is national health insurance. Remove the burden of providing health insurance for workers and retirees from these companies and their financial position improves dramatically.

Or....


Just throwing this out there, though it'd screw all the current and future retirees.

Do away with the unions, move everything out of the country as a method of accomplishing this and then move them back shortly after and "restart" with no unions.

Look at Toyota and Subaru, they're able to do well and manufacture in the USA.

I'm no expert though, just a thought.

Problem with doing this is you cut out a lot of American workers. If Ford, GM, and Chysler were to close up shop in the US they would have to spend massive amounts to start up somewhere else, and train a new work force. Meanwhile back in the good old USofA half a million people are out of a job. If you think we are in trouble now, think about what would happen if whole states were unemployed. Once the factories shutdown you may be out 1,000 or so jobs in that town, but that means a 1,000 incomes aren't buying stuff from local stores which mean local stores close which in turn means more people are out of work and it continues.

What needs to happen, and it's the only way I can see it working is for Congress to either make unions illegal, or the "kinda big 3" need to all declare bankruptcy and tell the workers, not the unions that the workers can come back and work but no union personnel are allowed.

The unions are what really screwed American companies. The unions fought to get a guy that screws in bolts with an air wrench, a salary 3x what it should be. Should a guy that does one repetitive action every day make $50-$60K a year plus a pension and healthcare? I say hell no. He should make $12-$15 hr.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
I'm torn.

I love the idea of Ford. The Ford family. Ford Mustangs. Ford trucks.


I also hate the fact that American automakers took a backseat to imports. I can't even BEGIN to consider an American car until they prove themselves for AT LEAST 5 years!!

Fusion......(not America's gift, despite Ford's attempt to prove it so)

Malibu.........ditto

Aura........ditto

Sebring.........ditto


If they want to prove themselves to me..........they need to earn my trust. EARN! One year, does not a great car company make.

I'm not sure how anyone can have any kind of nostalgic attachment to Ford. Liking them because they make good cars is one thing, but liking the idea of Ford or their heritage or whatever, is ridiculous if you know about Henry Ford's Nazi sympathies and material support for the Germans in WWII (from which Ford profited-- I'm not talking about the Nazis commandeering the factories)

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Honeybun is still super happy about her Aura XR, incredible car, great value. The camry/accord killer is correct.

I really don't think you should be calling me honeybun in public!

😛

Anyways, I am very happy with our Aura XR as well. It's a great daily driver.

 

[halik]

keep making things like the edge/mkx and mkz and you'll see a turnaround...

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ironwing

The capital does not stay in America. It goes to build plants elsewhere. Ask Iacoca what he did with the loans he got the federal loan guarantees for. Profits go where ever the investors live. That might be America, might be Europe, Japan, Middle East...

Uhhh, NO.

Profit is profit. Capital is capital. They are different. Linked by the balance sheet, but still different.

Profits go to the head company. That company can then decide what to do with the profit. Capital can be used to build plants in other countries, but the profit still goes to the head.

Every car you buy from foreign companies goes directly into their pocket. If they choose to reinvest this as capital projects for new plants then they will do so. But the money still goes to the head. Eitherway it's their choice.

False,
profits go to the share holders - if you own toyota shares, you'll get toyota profits.

 

[rh71]

no wai... the Edge is faster than an X5 3.0 by 0.2 secs from 0-60! Make that the theme of a multi-thousand dollar commercial!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
i really don't know how they're even operating right now, same with chrysler

Ford is number one seller in South America these days so that is keeping them alive for now.

Chysler is in liquidation mode other than the mini-van.

Even the PT Cruiser was killed off.

 

[K1052]

It ain't looking good, Ford is bleeding cash something like 5 times faster than GM and doesn't have anywhere near the assets to sell/leverage to raise cash to cover.

 

[Modeps]

The only cars I've ever owned have been Fords. 🙁

 

[Fritzo]

Their new lines seem to be stronger than anything GM is offering. As for Chrysler, Jeep is holding them together.

I see GM as going under before anyone else.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
i really don't know how they're even operating right now, same with chrysler

Ford is number one seller in South America these days so that is keeping them alive for now.

Chysler is in liquidation mode other than the mini-van.

Even the PT Cruiser was killed off.

Wrong, the PT Cruiser Convertible was killed off because it was a slow seller. More than 90,000 PT Cruisers have been sold this year. They wouldn't kill off that kind of profit.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

Maybe when they can figure out not to suck at quality they can do better. Even if they do, it will be too late to recover due to people refusing to buy their garbage.