Is Ford Motor Company Done?

[PlatinumGold]

does Ford have any hope?

is there any chance FoMoCo will be able to make any kind of come back?

i really they have about the best lineup of cars they've had in a very very long time. i think almost all of their cars are competitive in the class.

but they really got hurt by the firestone fiasco.

is there any chance this company will be able to make a come back?

http://www.i-go-cars.com/autos...er-2007-sales-figures/

http://www.examiner.com/a-1083...own.html?cid=sec-promo

 

[Pepsi90919]

i really don't know how they're even operating right now, same with chrysler

 

[IronWing]

Yep. Eventually one investment group or another will decide the stock price is low enough to cut a deal with the Ford family, take a big stake in the company, and pour money into it.

However, the permanent fix for Ford, GM, and other large American industrial companies is national health insurance. Remove the burden of providing health insurance for workers and retirees from these companies and their financial position improves dramatically.

 

[herm0016]

they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

that is a good point. Ford Europe did bail Ford USA out in the early 80's during the first japanese invasion.

Antidomestic sentiment is stronger than i've ever seen it before. shoot, i bought my first non domestic car recently, albeit a Kia Sedona.

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yep. Eventually one investment group or another will decide the stock price is low enough to cut a deal with the Ford family, take a big stake in the company, and pour money into it.

However, the permanent fix for Ford, GM, and other large American industrial companies is national health insurance. Remove the burden of providing health insurance for workers and retirees from these companies and their financial position improves dramatically.

A good bankruptcy would probably work as well. They could probably unload their insurance and pension burdens during restructuring.

In other words, Ford will survive but it's workers will get screwed.

 

[Pabster]

Ford's a goner. As is the "American" automobile. And they did it to themselves.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

that is a good point. Ford Europe did bail Ford USA out in the early 80's during the first japanese invasion.

Antidomestic sentiment is stronger than i've ever seen it before. shoot, i bought my first non domestic car recently, albeit a Kia Sedona.

Part of this is the realization by consumers that it isn't possible to know where a car is built anymore. A Toyota might be 100% Japan or 100% US or a hodgepodge of parts from all over. Ditto for Ford/Mazda. In the age of international labor arbitrage names mean nothing. Why should I buy American when the American car company I'm buying from buys their parts in Mexico/China?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Ford's a goner. As is the "American" automobile. And they did it to themselves.

Nooooooo, they will make a comeback.

That said, I'll always be in love with Ford Mustangs.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

that is a good point. Ford Europe did bail Ford USA out in the early 80's during the first japanese invasion.

Antidomestic sentiment is stronger than i've ever seen it before. shoot, i bought my first non domestic car recently, albeit a Kia Sedona.

Part of this is the realization by consumers that it isn't possible to know where a car is built anymore. A Toyota might be 100% Japan or 100% US or a hodgepodge of parts from all over. Ditto for Ford/Mazda. In the age of international labor arbitrage names mean nothing. Why should I buy American when the American car company I'm buying from buys their parts in Mexico/China?

Because the profits and capital stay in america. It's really that simple.

As far as knowing where a car is built and where the parts come from, it is clearly printed on the sticker.

 

[PlatinumGold]

i've always loved fords. can't explain it. i've owned:

Ford Pinto (my first car at 16 yrs of age)
Ford LTD Station Wagon (ok, i didn't own it, was my parents but i drove it a lot)
Ford Fairmont (mid 80's in college)
Ford Mustang LX Hatch with 5.0 V8 (late 80's early 90's)
Ford Windstar (what a piece of junk, finally broke down and bought an import MiniVan, Kia Sedona '07) Wifes Car
my current car is the Olds Intrigue '98, 180k miles. 😉

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

chrysler has almost no overseas presence.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

chrysler has almost no overseas presence.

Mercedes owns chrysler right? (unless they've sold it lately and i just haven't been paying attention) and Mercerdes has a foreign presence.

 

[ponyo]

I don't know. It's going to get nasty for all automakers next year IMO as the credit crunch spreads to autos and credit cards. Last 5 years of US economic expansion via easy credit and debt is over and it's going get ugly. So far autos have survived on 0% loans as incentives to sell cars but I think that stuff is going to end next year for just about everybody.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

that is a good point. Ford Europe did bail Ford USA out in the early 80's during the first japanese invasion.

Antidomestic sentiment is stronger than i've ever seen it before. shoot, i bought my first non domestic car recently, albeit a Kia Sedona.

Part of this is the realization by consumers that it isn't possible to know where a car is built anymore. A Toyota might be 100% Japan or 100% US or a hodgepodge of parts from all over. Ditto for Ford/Mazda. In the age of international labor arbitrage names mean nothing. Why should I buy American when the American car company I'm buying from buys their parts in Mexico/China?

Because the profits and capital stay in america. It's really that simple.

As far as knowing where a car is built and where the parts come from, it is clearly printed on the sticker.

The capital does not stay in America. It goes to build plants elsewhere. Ask Iacoca what he did with the loans he got the federal loan guarantees for. Profits go where ever the investors live. That might be America, might be Europe, Japan, Middle East...

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

chrysler has almost no overseas presence.

Mercedes owns chrysler right? (unless they've sold it lately and i just haven't been paying attention) and Mercerdes has a foreign presence.

Chrysler has (had) extensive plants in Mexico. I don't know if they still have them or if they got stripped in the sale.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

chrysler has almost no overseas presence.

Mercedes owns chrysler right? (unless they've sold it lately and i just haven't been paying attention) and Mercerdes has a foreign presence.

Daimler sold Chrysler to Cerberus Capital Management earlier this year. Daimler still holds minority stakes of like 20% but that's it. It's called Chrysler LLC now and is now privately owned.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ironwing

The capital does not stay in America. It goes to build plants elsewhere. Ask Iacoca what he did with the loans he got the federal loan guarantees for. Profits go where ever the investors live. That might be America, might be Europe, Japan, Middle East...

Uhhh, NO.

Profit is profit. Capital is capital. They are different. Linked by the balance sheet, but still different.

Profits go to the head company. That company can then decide what to do with the profit. Capital can be used to build plants in other countries, but the profit still goes to the head.

Every car you buy from foreign companies goes directly into their pocket. If they choose to reinvest this as capital projects for new plants then they will do so. But the money still goes to the head. Eitherway it's their choice.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Naustica

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

chrysler has almost no overseas presence.

Mercedes owns chrysler right? (unless they've sold it lately and i just haven't been paying attention) and Mercerdes has a foreign presence.

Daimler sold Chrysler to Cerberus Capital Management earlier this year. Daimler still holds minority stakes of like 20% but that's it. It's called Chrysler LLC now and is now privately owned.

that's right, i thought i had read that but wasn't sure.

i should just pay more attention to what i read.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: herm0016
they have there hand in enough good foreign markets to support their loss in the US, just like GM, who has its hands in lots of other things, and Chrysler.

that is a good point. Ford Europe did bail Ford USA out in the early 80's during the first japanese invasion.

Antidomestic sentiment is stronger than i've ever seen it before. shoot, i bought my first non domestic car recently, albeit a Kia Sedona.

Part of this is the realization by consumers that it isn't possible to know where a car is built anymore. A Toyota might be 100% Japan or 100% US or a hodgepodge of parts from all over. Ditto for Ford/Mazda. In the age of international labor arbitrage names mean nothing. Why should I buy American when the American car company I'm buying from buys their parts in Mexico/China?

Because the profits and capital stay in america. It's really that simple.

As far as knowing where a car is built and where the parts come from, it is clearly printed on the sticker.

If the parts or construction comes place in another country then some capitol had to go there to get it done. The fact that they paid the foreign workers and manufacturers before you bought the car doesn't matter. Your purchase helps to ensure that the process will continue.

Buying American just because it's American isn't the answer anyway. If foreign companies offer better bang for your buck then they should profit from that and American companies should rise to the occasion rather than looking for a handout.

 

[redgtxdi]

I'm torn.

I love the idea of Ford. The Ford family. Ford Mustangs. Ford trucks.


I also hate the fact that American automakers took a backseat to imports. I can't even BEGIN to consider an American car until they prove themselves for AT LEAST 5 years!!

Fusion......(not America's gift, despite Ford's attempt to prove it so)

Malibu.........ditto

Aura........ditto

Sebring.........ditto


If they want to prove themselves to me..........they need to earn my trust. EARN! One year, does not a great car company make.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
I'm torn.

I love the idea of Ford. The Ford family. Ford Mustangs. Ford trucks.


I also hate the fact that American automakers took a backseat to imports. I can't even BEGIN to consider an American car until they prove themselves for AT LEAST 5 years!!

Fusion......(not America's gift, despite Ford's attempt to prove it so)

Malibu.........ditto

Aura........ditto

Sebring.........ditto


If they want to prove themselves to me..........they need to earn my trust. EARN! One year, does not a great car company make.

ya, i love that kind of thinking, because it allows me to sell my clients dell computers and if it breaks down, they never blame me, or dell for that matter. they just accept it.

if i had built them the PC and the exact same thing happened, i'd take major heat from them.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ironwing

The capital does not stay in America. It goes to build plants elsewhere. Ask Iacoca what he did with the loans he got the federal loan guarantees for. Profits go where ever the investors live. That might be America, might be Europe, Japan, Middle East...

Uhhh, NO.

Profit is profit. Capital is capital. They are different. Linked by the balance sheet, but still different.

Profits go to the head company. That company can then decide what to do with the profit. Capital can be used to build plants in other countries, but the profit still goes to the head.

Every car you buy from foreign companies goes directly into their pocket. If they choose to reinvest this as capital projects for new plants then they will do so. But the money still goes to the head. Eitherway it's their choice.

Profits ultimately flow back to investors either as dividends or as stock appreciation. That a company maintains a headquarters or corporate charter in any particular country means little. Corporations are ultimately owned by individuals. These individual stock owners may reside anywhere.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
I'm torn.

I love the idea of Ford. The Ford family. Ford Mustangs. Ford trucks.


I also hate the fact that American automakers took a backseat to imports. I can't even BEGIN to consider an American car until they prove themselves for AT LEAST 5 years!!

Fusion......(not America's gift, despite Ford's attempt to prove it so)

Malibu.........ditto

Aura........ditto

Sebring.........ditto


If they want to prove themselves to me..........they need to earn my trust. EARN! One year, does not a great car company make.

This kind of thinking is what marketing can do. Never under estimate the power of good marketing. If you keep repeating the same message over and over and over again people believe it to be true. And when faced with facts instead of marketing, marketing still rules.

People are funny animals. If you get enough of them to believe something they will vehemently defend it without any direct experience.

Honeybun is still super happy about her Aura XR, incredible car, great value. The camry/accord killer is correct.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
I'm torn.

I love the idea of Ford. The Ford family. Ford Mustangs. Ford trucks.


I also hate the fact that American automakers took a backseat to imports. I can't even BEGIN to consider an American car until they prove themselves for AT LEAST 5 years!!

Fusion......(not America's gift, despite Ford's attempt to prove it so)

Malibu.........ditto

Aura........ditto

Sebring.........ditto


If they want to prove themselves to me..........they need to earn my trust. EARN! One year, does not a great car company make.

This kind of thinking is what marketing can do. Never under estimate the power of good marketing. If you keep repeating the same message over and over and over again people believe it to be true. And when faced with facts instead of marketing, marketing still rules.

People are funny animals. If you get enough of them to believe something they will vehemently defend it without any direct experience.

Honeybun is still super happy about her Aura XR, incredible car, great value. The camry/accord killer is correct.

i agree 100%, refer to my post about Dell above.