Is every form of death just a different method of suffocation?

PaperclipGod

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Assuming that the brain is where our "soul" resides -- isn't death actually just suffocation in one form or another?

For example, if you're decapitated, you aren't suddenly dead -- after all, whats been keeping your brain alive is the blood and the stuff it carries through your circulatory system (oxygen, glucose, etc). Suddenly removing those nutrients doesn't result in sudden, immediate death. Heck, the very laws of physics preclude that from being the case (FTL and all that).

So, what you actually die from when you're decapitated is the loss of the brains supply of glucose and oxygen (etc). The brain starves and its' cells begin to die. Death is when the cells in the brain actually stop functioning as cells, and turn into nothing more than a gelatinous goop.

The same, it seems, can be said for most other forms of death -- heart attack, lethal injection, overdose, cancer, hanging, etc. In a heart attack, your heart stops pumping blood, and your brain dies. In a lethal injection, the usual method is to paralyze the person and then to stop their heart. Again, death comes when the brain finally dies due to lack of nutrients. In an overdose, the drugs screw up your CNS and depress your body's natural heart rate/breathing until your brain starves. In cancer, whatever version of it you're afflicted with, the cancer screws with your body in some form which impedes its normal function. Organs die, the body can't support itself any more, and the brain dies when it's not getting its "food" any more.

The only type of death I can think of that isn't a form of suffocation would be some sort of massive, direct trauma to the head. e.g., a shotgun to the skull or having your head crushed by a tank.

So, all of that considered: Isn't it BS when you hear people say "oh NP, _____ died instantly, so at least they didn't feel any pain!"?

Or is this not the way death works, and it really is like in the movies: you get shot in the chest and you die instantly...?
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
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THe sensation of suffocating (from lack of air intake) is radically different than not getting blood to your brain. That's why being choked out in MMA is relatively peaceful adn you pretty much go to sleep. It's also why simulated suffocation in waterboarding is effective
 
S

SlitheryDee

"Dying instantly" might be closer to "lost consciousness instantly and died while unconscious". Pretty close to the same thing.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: SonnyDaze
Originally posted by: Mo0o
It's also why simulated suffocation in waterboarding is effective

:Q

This thread is suffocating me.

I guess I probalby should have clarified that I meant it was effective at scaring the shit out of people.

Whether its good as an interrogation tool and/or if it's torture is for another thread
 

SonnyDaze

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2004
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Originally posted by: Mo0o
Originally posted by: SonnyDaze
Originally posted by: Mo0o
It's also why simulated suffocation in waterboarding is effective

:Q

This thread is suffocating me.

I guess I probalby should have clarified that I meant it was effective at scaring the shit out of people.

Whether its good as an interrogation tool and/or if it's torture is for another thread

I'd say it's both but it is effective. I've seen it done - in a training atmosphere but it was effective.




 

Red Squirrel

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May 24, 2003
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I've always wondered how it feels like to die. Like, the journey to the after life, and how it all happens.

I had a dream a few days ago that I was in some kind of death row, then it was finally my turn and the guy doing the execution was behind me with a knife, he was going to just shove it right through my skull and it was going to be an instant death. I was really worried about how much it would hurt. Suddenly I just came to the realization that I was about to see Jesus and get to see what heaven is like. The excitement actually blew away the fact that I was about to die some gruesome death. Then I woke up and was like "wtf?" and actually looked around real quick if someone was about to kill me or something then went back to bed. Weird dream.

I wonder though if the last moment before dying actually feels that way, where it's actually exciting. They also say your life flashes before you as your brain dies off.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
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Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I've always wondered how it feels like to die. Like, the journey to the after life, and how it all happens.

I had a dream a few days ago that I was in some kind of death row, then it was finally my turn and the guy doing the execution was behind me with a knife, he was going to just shove it right through my skull and it was going to be an instant death. I was really worried about how much it would hurt. Suddenly I just came to the realization that I was about to see Jesus and get to see what heaven is like. The excitement actually blew away the fact that I was about to die some gruesome death. Then I woke up and was like "wtf?" and actually looked around real quick if someone was about to kill me or something then went back to bed. Weird dream.

I wonder though if the last moment before dying actually feels that way, where it's actually exciting. They also say your life flashes before you as your brain dies off.

i was in a car accident once where i thought i was going to die, i hit a tree head on at ~70ish mph, flipped end over end 5 or 6 times, and during the flipping it dawned on me that there was a good chance i wouldn't survive, first i was sad that i would never see my loved ones again, and then i just felt really peaceful and the anticipation of what came next actually was kind of exciting. And then the car stopped, on it's roof, i didnt feel any pain, or much pain anyway, i realized i was tangled in the seatbelt hanging upside down kind of pinned in the passenger floorboard (i was alone in the car, and it was a 1g DSM, so it had those electric seatbelts that closed over your upper half when the door was closed, so it didnt "lock" and hold me against the seat) I got really lucky that i did survive, the roof of the car was peeled back from skidding on a dirt road on it's top, and the front of the car was completely smashed from the tree, which actually snapped from the force of the car hitting it (it wasn't that thick of a tree, maybe a foot wide, if even that) but yeah, so the car stops on it's top, i managed to hit the seatbelt release and climbed out of the broken side window...a car came up on the wreck right as i was pulling myself to my feet... made it out with just some cuts and a nasty bruise on my chest/belly from the steering wheel when i took the tree out.
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
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Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I've always wondered how it feels like to die. Like, the journey to the after life, and how it all happens.

I had a dream a few days ago that I was in some kind of death row, then it was finally my turn and the guy doing the execution was behind me with a knife, he was going to just shove it right through my skull and it was going to be an instant death. I was really worried about how much it would hurt. Suddenly I just came to the realization that I was about to see Jesus and get to see what heaven is like. The excitement actually blew away the fact that I was about to die some gruesome death. Then I woke up and was like "wtf?" and actually looked around real quick if someone was about to kill me or something then went back to bed. Weird dream.

I wonder though if the last moment before dying actually feels that way, where it's actually exciting. They also say your life flashes before you as your brain dies off.

cool dream bro
it'd be even cooler if you had an out of body experience
 

Red Squirrel

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May 24, 2003
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Originally posted by: zanejohnson
Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I've always wondered how it feels like to die. Like, the journey to the after life, and how it all happens.

I had a dream a few days ago that I was in some kind of death row, then it was finally my turn and the guy doing the execution was behind me with a knife, he was going to just shove it right through my skull and it was going to be an instant death. I was really worried about how much it would hurt. Suddenly I just came to the realization that I was about to see Jesus and get to see what heaven is like. The excitement actually blew away the fact that I was about to die some gruesome death. Then I woke up and was like "wtf?" and actually looked around real quick if someone was about to kill me or something then went back to bed. Weird dream.

I wonder though if the last moment before dying actually feels that way, where it's actually exciting. They also say your life flashes before you as your brain dies off.

i was in a car accident once where i thought i was going to die, i hit a tree head on at ~70ish mph, flipped end over end 5 or 6 times, and during the flipping it dawned on me that there was a good chance i wouldn't survive, first i was sad that i would never see my loved ones again, and then i just felt really peaceful and the anticipation of what came next actually was kind of exciting. And then the car stopped, on it's roof, i didnt feel any pain, or much pain anyway, i realized i was tangled in the seatbelt hanging upside down kind of pinned in the passenger floorboard (i was alone in the car, and it was a 1g DSM, so it had those electric seatbelts that closed over your upper half when the door was closed, so it didnt "lock" and hold me against the seat) I got really lucky that i did survive, the roof of the car was peeled back from skidding on a dirt road on it's top, and the front of the car was completely smashed from the tree, which actually snapped from the force of the car hitting it (it wasn't that thick of a tree, maybe a foot wide, if even that) but yeah, so the car stops on it's top, i managed to hit the seatbelt release and climbed out of the broken side window...a car came up on the wreck right as i was pulling myself to my feet... made it out with just some cuts and a nasty bruise on my chest/belly from the steering wheel when i took the tree out.

Wow that must of been the experience. I can't say I've ever experience near death like that, or at least, thoughts of near death.

 

Red Squirrel

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May 24, 2003
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Originally posted by: astroidea
Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
I've always wondered how it feels like to die. Like, the journey to the after life, and how it all happens.

I had a dream a few days ago that I was in some kind of death row, then it was finally my turn and the guy doing the execution was behind me with a knife, he was going to just shove it right through my skull and it was going to be an instant death. I was really worried about how much it would hurt. Suddenly I just came to the realization that I was about to see Jesus and get to see what heaven is like. The excitement actually blew away the fact that I was about to die some gruesome death. Then I woke up and was like "wtf?" and actually looked around real quick if someone was about to kill me or something then went back to bed. Weird dream.

I wonder though if the last moment before dying actually feels that way, where it's actually exciting. They also say your life flashes before you as your brain dies off.

cool dream bro
it'd be even cooler if you had an out of body experience

Actually once I did have this dream I was in heaven, it was kinda messed up actually. I literally spawned some random spot in heaven as if it was some kind of FPS or something. I was in an indoor play ground with a bunch of kids playing and their mothers around the walls just sitting around talking. I asked where Jesus was and someone pointed me to the door to get outside the building then I woke up. If that's really what heaven is like, there's no streets of gold, it's just a bunch of office buildings and stuff. :p

Now that I think of it, I've dreamed about death many times, but it's never been a horror dream. when I was a kid I dreamed I was with my grandpa just looking down the railing of the river. Suddenly I somehow found myself falling in, then as I was drowning everything got blurry then I found myself waking up rubbing my eyes lol. Weird stuff.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
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Well.....the thing is...it's kinda tricky...because myself as a nurse has seen death many times...and we can provide you the patient with as much oxygen as possible but you still die...if your heart stops and we do CPR and have a definitive airway we can provide some of the blood flow and oxygen needed to the brain but if we cant restart your heart it's a moot point.

And anyways I can think of other instances where you don't suffocate, such as liver failure, kidney failure, or how about intracranial hemorrhage, your brain gets crushed by the pressure of blood inside a fixed space. But really it is kinda of an argument of semantics. Technically you are correct your death is precluded by your brain 'starving' to death from lack of SOMETHING, whether it is oxygen, glucose etc.

*shrug*
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
Assuming that the brain is where our "soul" resides -- isn't death actually just suffocation in one form or another?

well, if you want to start with an assumption that make-believe is reality, then I suppose you can believe whatever the hell you want to, right?
 

Red Squirrel

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May 24, 2003
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Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
Assuming that the brain is where our "soul" resides -- isn't death actually just suffocation in one form or another?

well, if you want to start with an assumption that make-believe is reality, then I suppose you can believe whatever the hell you want to, right?

It kinda makes sense though. I think if it were possible to do a brain transplant, you'd essentially be moving to a new body but still be yourself. All your "data" is in the brain. It's like moving a hard drive to another computer. Now assuming it's the exact model etc, it will boot up, and have the same information as in the old computer.

Wow only a geek like me would compare the human body to a computer.
 

theblackbox

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
Assuming that the brain is where our "soul" resides -- isn't death actually just suffocation in one form or another?

well, if you want to start with an assumption that make-believe is reality, then I suppose you can believe whatever the hell you want to, right?

It kinda makes sense though. I think if it were possible to do a brain transplant, you'd essentially be moving to a new body but still be yourself. All your "data" is in the brain. It's like moving a hard drive to another computer. Now assuming it's the exact model etc, it will boot up, and have the same information as in the old computer.

Wow only a geek like me would compare the human body to a computer.

don't get all ghost in the shell on us...
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,892
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Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
Assuming that the brain is where our "soul" resides -- isn't death actually just suffocation in one form or another?

well, if you want to start with an assumption that make-believe is reality, then I suppose you can believe whatever the hell you want to, right?

It kinda makes sense though. I think if it were possible to do a brain transplant, you'd essentially be moving to a new body but still be yourself. All your "data" is in the brain. It's like moving a hard drive to another computer. Now assuming it's the exact model etc, it will boot up, and have the same information as in the old computer.

Wow only a geek like me would compare the human body to a computer.

uh...this is not a novel comparison.

anyhoo, there is no definitive explanation to how memory, or personal identity works, based on the workings of neurons and how they interact with each other. when you consider that cells are constantly dividing and dying off, being replaced, your body itself is never the "same" collection of tissue. It constantly changes.

It's possible that the brain depends on the "memory" of various other cells to form part of that perpetual identity. I doubt it's as simple as transferring the brain into a new foreign body will not preserve the complete identity of the individual.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
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Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
Assuming that the brain is where our "soul" resides -- isn't death actually just suffocation in one form or another?

well, if you want to start with an assumption that make-believe is reality, then I suppose you can believe whatever the hell you want to, right?

It kinda makes sense though. I think if it were possible to do a brain transplant, you'd essentially be moving to a new body but still be yourself. All your "data" is in the brain. It's like moving a hard drive to another computer. Now assuming it's the exact model etc, it will boot up, and have the same information as in the old computer.

Wow only a geek like me would compare the human body to a computer.

uh...this is not a novel comparison.

anyhoo, there is no definitive explanation to how memory, or personal identity works, based on the workings of neurons and how they interact with each other. when you consider that cells are constantly dividing and dying off, being replaced, your body itself is never the "same" collection of tissue. It constantly changes.

It's possible that the brain depends on the "memory" of various other cells to form part of that perpetual identity. I doubt it's as simple as transferring the brain into a new foreign body will not preserve the complete identity of the individual.

food for thought right there...
 

alkemyst

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Feb 13, 2001
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Originally posted by: Mo0o
THe sensation of suffocating (from lack of air intake) is radically different than not getting blood to your brain. That's why being choked out in MMA is relatively peaceful adn you pretty much go to sleep. It's also why simulated suffocation in waterboarding is effective

I would say it's not simulated, you are pretty much being suffocated and that's why you end up talking.
 

destrekor

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Nov 18, 2005
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Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Mo0o
THe sensation of suffocating (from lack of air intake) is radically different than not getting blood to your brain. That's why being choked out in MMA is relatively peaceful adn you pretty much go to sleep. It's also why simulated suffocation in waterboarding is effective

I would say it's not simulated, you are pretty much being suffocated and that's why you end up talking.

No, you aren't be suffocated, it is just a very well-played trick that the subject perceives they are being suffocated.

When carried out correctly, you can last as long as your mind holds onto the concept its all one big game. Most intelligence agents, even knowing its a trick, still give up almost instantly when they get tested using waterboarding. The way it works is it just triggers the instinctual response.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
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Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Mo0o
THe sensation of suffocating (from lack of air intake) is radically different than not getting blood to your brain. That's why being choked out in MMA is relatively peaceful adn you pretty much go to sleep. It's also why simulated suffocation in waterboarding is effective

I would say it's not simulated, you are pretty much being suffocated and that's why you end up talking.

No, you aren't be suffocated, it is just a very well-played trick that the subject perceives they are being suffocated.

When carried out correctly, you can last as long as your mind holds onto the concept its all one big game. Most intelligence agents, even knowing its a trick, still give up almost instantly when they get tested using waterboarding. The way it works is it just triggers the instinctual response.

WTF waterboarding are you talking about? You can very easily drown being waterboarded. Were you waterboarded as a test? If so that's a whole lot different than a real one.

I suggest you read up on it and don't go off what you may have heard. There is a lot of talk right now since our government has been found guilty of doing so. They are talking as if it's just splashing a bit of water on someone....
 

911paramedic

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Jan 7, 2002
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I would say that in a lot of cases that would be true. However, traumatic brain injuries would be an exception. (I may be able to come up with more, but not willing to think about this for too long.)

e.g. Zero brain function but kept alive by a respirator for organ donation. (Cells are still alive but brain function is absent.)
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
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Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: destrekor
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Mo0o
THe sensation of suffocating (from lack of air intake) is radically different than not getting blood to your brain. That's why being choked out in MMA is relatively peaceful adn you pretty much go to sleep. It's also why simulated suffocation in waterboarding is effective

I would say it's not simulated, you are pretty much being suffocated and that's why you end up talking.

No, you aren't be suffocated, it is just a very well-played trick that the subject perceives they are being suffocated.

When carried out correctly, you can last as long as your mind holds onto the concept its all one big game. Most intelligence agents, even knowing its a trick, still give up almost instantly when they get tested using waterboarding. The way it works is it just triggers the instinctual response.

WTF waterboarding are you talking about? You can very easily drown being waterboarded. Were you waterboarded as a test? If so that's a whole lot different than a real one.

I suggest you read up on it and don't go off what you may have heard. There is a lot of talk right now since our government has been found guilty of doing so. They are talking as if it's just splashing a bit of water on someone....

And there is a lot of bullshit talk about how lethal it is and all these other problems. The official waterboarding method, as documented in a few different homeland security documents and course books, have discussed CIA recruits lasting 15 seconds, whereas Khalid Sheik Mohammed, was waterboarded many times, and was pegged at lasting for minutes before breaking.

The official method is water poured over a burlap bag while you are laying flat or slightly sloped down with your head lowest. This makes you feel like you are drowning and aren't getting air, but the person is supposed to be able to breathe if one can control your breathing pattern. It's high stress, mentally exhausting, said to be extremely difficult to convince yourself that you will be fine. And is why CIA recruits, even KNOWING they could breathe, didn't last a fraction of the time Mohammed had lasted during a few of his oft-reported waterboarding sessions.
 

Babbles

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Jan 4, 2001
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I think really if you were looking for one thing to define "death" would be the cessation of cellular respiration.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Suffication? Not always.

If you're standing at ground zero when the nuke goes off you are instantly vaporized.
If your head asplodes from reading this thread... well... your head asplodes.