Is ESO going to self destruct before it even launches?

[Grooveriding]

You're referring to WoW, of course. I'm running an alliance Hunter around for fun on Argent Dawn. Haven't played the game in probably six or seven years. It's a very charming world, but it's looking _really_dated. You'd think with all the money they've made off the game they could have deployed a new client with some updated graphics and environmentals.

So, ESO from my perspective, looks much, much better. Looks aren't everything, but looks plus environmental effects plus better terrain plus three-faction RvR, if they do it right, could be something interesting. The game is not going to be a WoW killer, but I think they basically admitted that is not the goal when they accepted the mature rating.

That is a good point. The graphics are decent enough in ESO and much better than WoW. I play WoW a little here and there still today and the graphics really are a detriment. The game even looked dated in 2004 when it came out.

 

[pontifex]

He is kind of right currently it seems like WOW and maybe Eve are the only two that are pretty successful and charging a monthly fee. Tons of games try to bill monthly but nearly all of them in the last few years fail and ultimately go f2p with some kind of cash shop

I don't think it has anything to do with a monthly fee. the games either suck to begin with or don't have enough new or end game content to keep people playing.

I played the ESO beta for a few hours. Was not impressed. Was pretty much like every other MMO out there.

The last MMO I enjoyed was Rift, but after I got to max level and ran the few end games dungeons a few times, it got boring.

There have only been a few MMOs that were able to hold my attention - DAoC, WoW, Rift - all of them got to a point where it was a grind or nothing new to do. I don't think I played any of them for more than a year, expect maybe DAoC but wasn't much longer than a year. WoW was like 8 months after release and Rift was like 4 months after release.

Yes, some of these games had expansions but I have a hard time going back to MMOs after I quit. Have never been able to do it for more than a few hours at most.

 

[waggy]

Hmm the way its going i guess i will pass. I hate Paywalls and such. fuck that.

not that i was excited about another MMO. i hate to see it fail because it might hurt another single player game.


wait: a few things i read online say that it won't have Paywalls or microtransactions? wich is it? do they are not?

I don't mind the monthly fee for the game. but won't do microtransactions on top of that.

 

[mizzou]

probably this will be the last big budget wow clone....whadya think?

 

[shortylickens]

Most of what I see nowadays in the gaming community does not make me happy.

Overpriced titles.
Content held back to sell as DLC later.
In game transactions and/or Pay-to-win.
Selling Alphas. Selling Betas.
Selling a game that may never be completed and isnt even in a true alpha state.
Selling digital media as bonus content.
Making practically the same thing over and over & selling at new prices. Claiming its all new regardless of what the price is.
Lying about DRM before the game is released, lying when its released. Hiding DRM. Multiple layers of DRM.
Always Online DRM.
DRM that causes system errors and needs Safe Mode to be properly cleaned. DRM that causes other games or programs to stop working.
Large companies swallowing up little ones and laying off the handful of genuinely creative people.
Suing genuinely creative people, to also include holding back releases for years or preventing any release.
Hyping features that are seen rarely in the actual gameplay. Hyping voice actors, regardless of how much they contribute to the game.


What else?
I cant thing of anything thats really bugging me.

 

[mizzou]

Most of what I see nowadays in the gaming community does not make me happy.

Overpriced titles.
Content held back to sell as DLC later.
In game transactions and/or Pay-to-win.
Selling Alphas. Selling Betas.
Selling a game that may never be completed and isnt even in a true alpha state.
Selling digital media as bonus content.
Making practically the same thing over and over & selling at new prices. Claiming its all new regardless of what the price is.
Lying about DRM before the game is released, lying when its released. Hiding DRM. Multiple layers of DRM.
Always Online DRM.
DRM that causes system errors and needs Safe Mode to be properly cleaned. DRM that causes other games or programs to stop working.
Large companies swallowing up little ones and laying off the handful of genuinely creative people.
Suing genuinely creative people, to also include holding back releases for years or preventing any release.
Hyping features that are seen rarely in the actual gameplay. Hyping voice actors, regardless of how much they contribute to the game.


What else?
I cant thing of anything thats really bugging me.

but you have to admit the surge in small in house productions has been very satisfying!

 

[shortylickens]

Yeah but so far I am not liking most small house productions.

 

[norseamd]

the problem is that everyone is complaining about the game but not relizing the true cause of the problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Altman

here is the reason that there are problems. banking and lawyering. the worst from two of the most horrible worlds. he also has a ton of hollywood exec types on the zenimax board. and you wonder why there are problems. these are the people that want to not only force you to buy content with various control schemes but also directly control your whole life. remember zenimax trying to force one studio to sell to zenimax. they are causing all of what the above list mentions. the only thing i do not have a problem with are alphas and betas.

 

[Arkadrel]

Is ESO going to self destruct before it even launches?

To top off everything else from what you said. The game is so damn average/mediocre/generic. They kept the worst part of ES games (the combat) and kept it for the MMO. If it wasn't for the ES theme, you could swear this is some current F2P mmo that no one knows about because it simply isn't good.

I only know 1 person that came away with a positive impressing after playing the beta and well, he is weird to start with. Nearly my entire guild in FF14 tried the beta and all thought it was crap and a lot of them are wanting to move on to another MMO (the weird guy that liked it is in the guild too ).

It is amazing they spent around 200 million on this turd.

I dont think ESO is gonna be anything special.
Its not the next big WoW success story.

I think ESO is gonna do a face plant, people will play it for a month or two and leave it.

 

[Doppel]

Yeah but so far I am not liking most small house productions.

Agreed with this and what you wrote above. Unfortunately Indie to me is like playing a game from 20 years ago, although the graphics are better. It's still as small an experience in most cases, though. I can feel when a game has time thrown into it and that's what I like.

 

[imaheadcase]

He is kind of right currently it seems like WOW and maybe Eve are the only two that are pretty successful and charging a monthly fee. Tons of games try to bill monthly but nearly all of them in the last few years fail and ultimately go f2p with some kind of cash shop

Yah but not the last TEN years. Maybe the last 4-5 years.

 

[Wordplay]

When the preorders went live, the game looked to be going down a stark path of cash grabbing, micro transactions, and pay gates; all while having a monthly sub. An entire race locked to preorder Collector's Edition is obscene.

Even hardcore fan sites, like ShoddyCast, are angry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lRi-aku1nw


And he talks about tactics, not just in MMOs, that I've been complaining about myself in recent years. MicroTransactions, Pay Gates, IAPs, exclusive preorder content, and constant nickel and diming of the players. This is a cancer thats rapidly spreading across every genre.

Shoddy is dead right, we are the proverbial frog in the pot and most don't even realize the water is slowly boiling.

So after all his complaing in the video he is still going to buy the game.

If he really wants to make a stand he should be like his friends, don't purchase it!

 

[lilrayray69]

I played the beta and thought it was pretty bad. Granted it was a beta, but there wasn't much special about it. The only thing it had going was the extensive voice-overs for the storyline, but I never listen to that anyway.

Combat was stale as it could be.

I have been hearing talks about a "WoW-killer" basically since it came out, about 10 years ago now right? It was gonna be Aion, Age of Conan, Warhammer, RIFT, LOTR online, Stars Wars, Guild Wars 2....

 

[Feneant2]

wait: a few things i read online say that it won't have Paywalls or microtransactions? wich is it? do they are not?

I don't mind the monthly fee for the game. but won't do microtransactions on top of that.

I'm confused to, this thread is mostly haters but from what I understood reading this thread you have to pay a sub and then you hit paywalls, then you have to do microtransactions, etc. to have success.

I haven't followed ESO much but from what I know, you pay a subscriptions and everything is open/accessible to you.

 

[BrightCandle]

I actually prefer that its pay for and subscription based, I really hate micro transactions and the impact they have on a games design and gameplay. However nothing I have seen so far with ESO suggests that this game is different, innovative or fundamentally a better MMO than anything that has come before it. It seems stuck in the same basic repetitious gameplay style as they all have been for a decade.

If what you want to do is charge 50% more for your box and subscription than the other subscription games, and infinitely more than all the free to play games well you need a compelling reason for it.

I feel like I have played this game already from the gameplay videos, they didn't even convince me to play the beta. I have played a lot of MMOs I am failing to see what this one brings in game mechanics and innovation. It seems its main claim to fame right now is it simply carries the name of a successful RPG and the world and environment are interesting. I don't hate it, they just haven't convinced me why I should love it.

 

[Genx87]

Played it, it was abysmal. Abysmal maybe is too strong, but it offers nothing compelling that I haven't seen before and doesn't do what it does offer better than the major player in the MMO space.

IMO they should get this out the door as buy the boxed game and no monthly sub with micro-transactions now. Otherwise they'll inevitably have to bear the embarrassment when the game does go f2p in the future.

I don't know if MMOs are just plain stale at this point or if it's truly difficult to come up with something that shakes up the market and is really innovative. GW2 was amazing imo, but fell flat on its face with zero end-game content at max level. WoW is still decent, but the game is really stale and is in a state of devolution at this point and is just being milked dry before it shrivels up.

I don't have the kind of time to sink into an MMO I did when WoW came out, but I could still get into a good one and just progress at a casual pace. Unfortunately every new one that comes out is complete diarrhea. More and more it seems like game development has been aggressively overtaken by a commodity minimal investment and maximum profit mindset. The idea that it is an art has been expunged and we get a greater percentile of complete shovelware every year.

The space has grown stale. How many different ways can the industry present Elves, Dwarfs, Humans, and some other evil looking race locked in a war utilizing swords, shields, and lightningbolts with an firebolts?

Also as you note. MMO's take time, a lot of it. MMO's nearly drove me from gaming because of the soul sucking nature of them.

 

[gothamhunter]

The way I look at it, is that I bought an excellent collector's set of Elder Scrolls merchandise. On the plus side it also came with a game:biggrin:

 

[mizzou]

Alright...I caved and activated my beta key, will play tomorrow.

 

[norseamd]

The way I look at it, is that I bought an excellent collector's set of Elder Scrolls merchandise. On the plus side it also came with a game

what an amazing deal! do you get the chance to buy collector dlc?

 

[gothamhunter]

what an amazing deal! do you get the chance to buy collector dlc?

THIS guy.

 

[BoberFett]

Subscription model = instant fail, no exceptions. 10 years of MMO track record proves it, unless you are Blizzard.

No, you just have to offer something compelling that the industry leader doesn't. So many MMOs that come and go are simple WoW clones, they don't offer anything different and what they do offer is no better than WoW.

EVE Online is completely different and has a rabid fanbase, that game seems to be doing just fine.

 

[BoberFett]

You're referring to WoW, of course. I'm running an alliance Hunter around for fun on Argent Dawn. Haven't played the game in probably six or seven years. It's a very charming world, but it's looking _really_dated. You'd think with all the money they've made off the game they could have deployed a new client with some updated graphics and environmentals.

Each new expansion ups the graphics in the related zones. Compare the Jade Forest of Dread Wastes with any old zone. The graphics are definitely improved. I'm not surprised they haven't upgraded the old zones. Nobody spends more than a couple of hours there as they outlevel it in 2 hours in their heirloom gear. The fact that they redesigned a large chunk of the world for Cataclym was a fairly bold move. The quality of quests added in Cataclym was a big leap, even if the graphics weren't upgraded.

We already know the next expansion will improve character models, I wouldn't be surprised if the environment is upgraded to match. However I'd still be shocked if they went back and updated the look of flyover zones.

 

[HumblePie]

Haven't tried the beta, but finally got an invite to try. My friend all have and it seems to be a mixed bag review on the game. Oh well, I'll see for myself soon enough.

 

[Markbnj]

Each new expansion ups the graphics in the related zones. Compare the Jade Forest of Dread Wastes with any old zone. The graphics are definitely improved. I'm not surprised they haven't upgraded the old zones. Nobody spends more than a couple of hours there as they outlevel it in 2 hours in their heirloom gear. The fact that they redesigned a large chunk of the world for Cataclym was a fairly bold move. The quality of quests added in Cataclym was a big leap, even if the graphics weren't upgraded.

We already know the next expansion will improve character models, I wouldn't be surprised if the environment is upgraded to match. However I'd still be shocked if they went back and updated the look of flyover zones.

Interesting. I didn't know there was a significant difference in look and feel between the old and new. I'll see for myself when I level out of red ridge.

 

[Red Storm]

Interesting. I didn't know there was a significant difference in look and feel between the old and new. I'll see for myself when I level out of red ridge.

To me there isn't, but that's because I think WoW's art style is terrible, and so is Warcraft's. Not a fan of blocky models with wacky proportions, especially when you throw the cartoon look on top of it all.