Is dual core the right way for the future

[lissen]

I like a bit of Computer gaming as well as the odd email letter and work using Office (excel and word). The old P4 2.4 Dell is looking long in the tooth, especially when playing Doom 3 etc So its time for a bit of an upgrade. Rambus memory is uneconomic to upgrade. So its time to buy a new one. Just before Xmas.
In my price bracket are AMD X2 3800+, AMD 4000+ or Intel Pentium D830 (dual) or Intel Pentium 650 (stretch to 660?)

I will team one of those choices with an asus board, 1Gb ddr, GF700GT, 300Gb disc Antec midi case and hopefully get some change out of £600 (then i woke up !).

The most attractive option to me is the 3800+ AMD with the asus Nforce4 sli board, i think this will give me the longevity my bank manager needs. (I dont buy a machine very often - it has to last me).

I have been researching and came across some stability issues reported for the AMD X2 dual cores. It seems that some games misbehave running slow, other games have an issue where they speed up 'too much' and slow down jerkily.

Can I please have comments from users of this forum that have come across these issues on their machines. Does the X2 need constant system changes to keep it working for games. If this is the case I would be better off with a more stable option. Stability is more important than speed, which points me to single CPU. However as I want to keep my machine for 3 years+ I dont want to buy old single tech.

I dont want to start an AMD / Intel flaming session here (can that be prevented ?) I just really am stuck and a bit of advice especially from people that have actually got a dual core machine and let me know what games do work, what ones have you found need changes to make them work and any you couldnt get to work would be appreciated.

 

[Markfw]

There are no issues That I am aware of that HAVEN'T been solved by installing windows correctly, and the X2 driver and the MS patch. Get the 3800 and nforce4 board.

 

[Crism]

Intel is a no-no. The AMD's are a lot better for gaming

 

[lissen]

Mark
thanks for the help

- I see you have many AMD Dual cores and so can speak from experience


Have you found you have to swich games into running on a single core using affinity to get them to work
or does the patches and drivers do it all.

does futuremark work on your system -

http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.aspx?page=4&articleid=710&cid=1
these guys couldnt get it going

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Yep, he's the authority He has multiple X2's and an intel PD dual core.

 

[Markfw]

OK, I will see if I can play on my XP box a little for the PCmark problem. On games, all but mt dual Opteron box are working computers of F@H, I only play warcraft, and then its on W2K. What I can say after reading many posts and working with Duvie and others, is that the few reported not solved problems by one or two users are overshadowed by the thousands that have NO problems. Most everybody does not need to set affinity, but that has happened once or twice. I will get back to you on the PCmark problem.

What I can guarantee you is DON'T buy Intel right now for the desktop, they offer nothing worth buying.

 

[Cooler]

dual core is now next year its multy core.

 

[Zebo]

I like the the idea of AMD just because you can use you old ram if it's DDR...

But 630 is a fine chip too. I would'nt mess with intel dualcores too much power and heat to really OC and not so fast anyway. Maybe wait for presler core if you're really set against AMD?

Reason you hear AMD issues is everyone in the enthusianst community is buying them... and thus with do-it-yourself system building and Internet discussion forums, the temptation is to attribute every tricky configuration to an inherent inferiority of brand X to brand Y. At the same time, another person with contrary experience will claim the opposite: that brand Y is inferior. It just so happens AMD has a larger sample pool to draw from right now so you hear more. The truth is they are all stable. Intel or AMD processors have billions invested in thier creation to go and release a shotty product which can't do math. Quite simply, any problems you hear are user ignorance and/or frustration, overclocking, or large/bloated software operating systems, applications and drivers in no particular order.

 

[Markfw]

BTW PCmark05 ran, (3566) but says n/a under memory test. Is that because I am using the free version ?

 

[lissen]

Thanks for everyones help here, especially Mark. I am now a bit more confident (but not 100%) that the AMD will work without tinkering for every game I put in.

 

[forumposter32]

Originally posted by: lissen

Thanks for everyones help here, especially Mark. I am now a bit more confident (but not 100%) that the AMD will work without tinkering for every game I put in.

I think he did acknowledge the problem people have been having with WoW.
But, I even saw a message on the software forum where someone was asking about issues with an X2 and Pinnacle 9 or something like that. Well, I'm just too scared of dual cores because of all the issues I've seen. One thread (might be on second page by now), one guy said he did every possible change you can name and formatted his HD every time he made a change. That being said, since he did mention other games did work, it kind of makes you wonder if the game was really at fault.

However, I don't see the problem in buying a single core 3800+ or even 3700+ (if you can find one at a good price) and replace with an X2 4800+ in 18 months once prices are slashed down to nothing for those. Hell, why not? You'll save a bundle anyway. I'm also kind of interested in socket M2 since you'll be able to upgrade to quad core. I intend to keep a single core machine for a long time to make sure I don't have problems with any software. I might end up with one machine running WinXP and another one with a quad core and Windows Vista. Vista with it's DRM etc might drive me up the wall anyway.

 

[Markfw]

I have Pinnacle 9, no problem with it. And if one person has a problem and thousands don't, logic says he is not doing something correctly. Also, as you pointed out its not even all games WITHOUT the path. Its definitely software, not the CPU.

And also there ARE people that work fine in WOW !

 

[forumposter32]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
I have Pinnacle 9, no problem with it. And if one person has a problem and thousands don't, logic says he is not doing something correctly. Also, as you pointed out its not even all games WITHOUT the path. Its definitely software, not the CPU.

And also there ARE people that work fine in WOW !

Before questioning whether someone has done something incorrectly or not, read this:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1717551&enterthread=y

Dude. Everything works for me too except WoW. I've done everything, fresh windows install, formatting, reinstalling, c'n'q enabled and disabled, the hotfix, freshest vid, processor, sound, and bios drivers, used ROPE and WinlaunchXP to set affinity, and I've done every possible combination of the above. Nothing f%cking works.

I really don't get it.

My problem in WoW is I can play for anywhere from 10 minutes to 4 hours and it does one of 3 things:

1) Locks up and sits there and won't let me do anything. Sometimes I can move my mouse, sometimes I can't.

2) Goes to a black screen and just hangs and I have to hit my reset button on my case.

3) Magically restarts my computer. As if I just clicked my restart button.

Please help with any suggestions..............

 

[Markfw]

Again, that could be due to 1000 reasons, bad PSU, bad motherboard, bad video card, wrong drivers...... The list is endless. But some people CAN get it to work, and thousands have no problems. So you say that becuase one person can't get one game to work, the X2 has problems ???

Get real, and wake up.

 

[Interitus]

You guys have to remember that this is a Tech forum. While there are lots of people here to sell/trade or to just post O/C results, this place is a haven for people who are having problems or need advice and are worried about something with a build or compatibilities. You're not going to see 3k posts from people who are having no problems whatsoever. If people are really happy with their setup, maybe 1/4 of them at most will post their happiness with their equipment. But mostly you're going to see people having problems who need answers.

-edit-

On that note, I will say that I have recently purchased an Opteron 165 dual core. I run lots of games on it... HL, HL2, WoW, FEAR....

I have had no issues at all. No slowdowns, no poor performance. The only issue I've had since going to dual core was crashing in FEAR which turned out to be sound driver related. As long as you do the proper Windows update and patch, you should be home free.

 

[forumposter32]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Again, that could be due to 1000 reasons, bad PSU, bad motherboard, bad video card, wrong drivers...... The list is endless. But some people CAN get it to work, and thousands have no problems. So you say that becuase one person can't get one game to work, the X2 has problems ???

Get real, and wake up.

Can you give me a link to the thousands who don't have a single problem with X2s?

Admit it people, it's BETA!!! That's what you get when you buy an X2. You're WAY AHEAD OF THE CURVE MAN!!!

Cripes, I read an article on the development of UT2007 and Tim Sweeney of Epic said they could not fully optimize UT2007 for dual cores since it would not be cost effective to do so. It would take too many man hours to do it. That's because Intel and AMD rushed out with dual cores without giving programmers the tools to write multi-threaded programs in the first place. You people are buying X2s when the software/OS to support it aren't even out!

Why do you feel the need to be so far ahead? If a program coming out in 2006 won't even be fully multi-threaded, then what the HELL are you doing?

Compare a socket 754 3700+ at 158 fps in UT2004 to 136 fps for an X2 3800+. Yeah, only costs twice the price for less performance eh? How about spending 4 times the price for the same performance in a dual core. This makes me puke. How someone can defend those X2s is beyond me.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Is dual core the right way for the future

Its the only way, ramping up Hz pretty much hit a brick wall. Heck, Intel's specially designed MHz monster couldn't get close to where they wanted to take it...parallelism is the currently the only way to increase the power and performance of our computers until we go quantum

 

[Markbnj]

Why do you feel the need to be so far ahead? If a program coming out in 2006 won't even be fully multi-threaded, then what the HELL are you doing?

A. You have no idea what you're talking about. I've been running an X2 for months now. Perfectly stable in Windows. Games run fine. Awesome performance.

B. You don't have a clue what kind of software will take advantage of multiple cores, or how it is written.

C. You're less than expert on how Windows works.

D. Why do you care so much?

 

[AkumaX]

i haven't done anything to my 820D and WoW plays fine, so does 1.6

the only reason why you only hear about X2 problems is because no one owns a P-D!

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: forumposter32

Originally posted by: Markfw900
Again, that could be due to 1000 reasons, bad PSU, bad motherboard, bad video card, wrong drivers...... The list is endless. But some people CAN get it to work, and thousands have no problems. So you say that becuase one person can't get one game to work, the X2 has problems ???

Get real, and wake up.

Can you give me a link to the thousands who don't have a single problem with X2s?

Admit it people, it's BETA!!! That's what you get when you buy an X2. You're WAY AHEAD OF THE CURVE MAN!!!

Cripes, I read an article on the development of UT2007 and Tim Sweeney of Epic said they could not fully optimize UT2007 for dual cores since it would not be cost effective to do so. It would take too many man hours to do it. That's because Intel and AMD rushed out with dual cores without giving programmers the tools to write multi-threaded programs in the first place. You people are buying X2s when the software/OS to support it aren't even out!

Why do you feel the need to be so far ahead? If a program coming out in 2006 won't even be fully multi-threaded, then what the HELL are you doing?

Compare a socket 754 3700+ at 158 fps in UT2004 to 136 fps for an X2 3800+. Yeah, only costs twice the price for less performance eh? How about spending 4 times the price for the same performance in a dual core. This makes me puke. How someone can defend those X2s is beyond me.

Its not beta. Its in production and thousands of people are using them with no problems. I have 4 myself. And what am I doing with them ? folding with 10 cpu;s using the power of 5. You are an ignorant ass that thinks that gaming is the only reason to have a PC from what you post. There are plenty of multi-threaded applications out there, and have been for years, its just most are designed for workstations. But now you can have that power on a regular desktop.

 

[Cooler]

Originally posted by: AkumaX
i haven't done anything to my 820D and WoW plays fine, so does 1.6

the only reason why you only hear about X2 problems is because no one owns a P-D!

almost no one.

 

[TSS]

i belive windows xp is the one having a few problems with dual cores, the x2 itself runs fine. the drivers and hotfix for xp's around on the forum plan on buying one myself in the near future (AKA when i gots the money )

the P-D runs hotter and delivers less performance then the X2. intel will come back in time, probably with a vengeance too, but for now AMD reigns supreme.

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: Cooler

Originally posted by: AkumaX
i haven't done anything to my 820D and WoW plays fine, so does 1.6

the only reason why you only hear about X2 problems is because no one owns a P-D!

almost no one.

yeah, me, mark, stevety, and a couple other people who post in catid=28. but i guess we all know how to reinstall windows and make it magically work w/o any game issues. but then again, who buys a P-D to play games? i got it for dvd editing stuff. the performance increase was there (almost 2x!), but man, "web browsing sure is fast" :roll:

 

[lissen]

Thank you all - I am a bit unclear now.
Do the Pentium duals suffer from the problem of the AMD X2, requiring some games to have to change affinity, load drivers and do registry changes to get them to work.

Are both chips the same in this respect.

I would like to hear from owners of Pentium D especially

 

[Markfw]

Well, I have only tried one game on the PD, and it works in win2k without setting affinity, where the X2 did (no X2 driver for win2k available).

But with all the negative qualities of the PD, I would never consider one over the X2, just because I had to install a driver, or for ONE game maybe have to set affinity. Not only that, the PD is not nearly as good in games (although the video card is the most important factor in todays games)