Is downloading TV episodes in full still illegal?

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: n7
Those running TV networks are f*cking morons.

If they'd offer my favorite shows in high def uber-fast downloads for reasonable prices w/o commercials or proprietary player requirements, i'd be interested.

But no, that'd be too easy :roll:

How would they make money? Or secure their intellectual property? Or encourage DVD sales?
And many networks are beginning to offer free downloads (though not HD)

 

[fire400]

Originally posted by: mugs
Yes.

It is different because someone is distrubuting someone else's copyrighted material without their permission.

amen

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Advertising/Cable Subscription pays for the content when it originally airs.
DVD sales bring in more revenue and online leeching obviously cuts into this - less money for someone owns the rights to the material.

On a side note, I don't have much of an idea about the late 80s/early 90s when VHS came out, but I assume there was a huge legal battle about how it would simplify recording TV shows/movies. I am guessing JVC (VHS) won that lawsuit, if there ever was one.

Similarly, I used to record songs off the radio when I was a kid who couldn't afford to buy every record with a good song on it. The RIAA wasn't suing people then for taping songs off the radio: so why sue mp3 barons now?

I guess the Internet makes distribution way too easy, which is why it bothers them so much.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: n7
Those running TV networks are f*cking morons.

If they'd offer my favorite shows in high def uber-fast downloads for reasonable prices w/o commercials or proprietary player requirements, i'd be interested.

But no, that'd be too easy :roll:

not sure what the viable price would be to fund costly shows. i mean it would be easy if everything were a reality show or something really cheap to make. but that would suck too😛

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: mugs
Yes.

It is different because someone is distrubuting someone else's copyrighted material without their permission.

Well, that was easy :thumbsup:

 

[OOBradm]

The only reason TV Shows exist is so that it will draw people to watch the commercials. If you download a tv show, you're not generating revenue for the networks or for the local affiliates because you're not watching the commercials which is the entire point.

The networks typically dont care so much about their "intellectual property" because 99/100 times the networks dont produce their own shows, independent producers do.

 

[mzkhadir]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Zeke

Originally posted by: mugs
Yes.

It is different because someone is distrubuting someone else's copyrighted material without their permission.

Ding.

Fries are done. Would you like an apple pie with that?

Edit: The networks have no problem with giving their content away - they already do that via TV. But they want to control it, and they want to use it to generate revenue. NBC already allows you to watch full shows on their website (not sure if it's all shows), I expect before too long you'll be able to watch the shows of every network online for free.

http://www.americanangst.com/dingfries.html

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
Advertising/Cable Subscription pays for the content when it originally airs.
DVD sales bring in more revenue and online leeching obviously cuts into this - less money for someone owns the rights to the material.

On a side note, I don't have much of an idea about the late 80s/early 90s when VHS came out, but I assume there was a huge legal battle about how it would simplify recording TV shows/movies. I am guessing JVC (VHS) won that lawsuit, if there ever was one.

Similarly, I used to record songs off the radio when I was a kid who couldn't afford to buy every record with a good song on it. The RIAA wasn't suing people then for taping songs off the radio: so why sue mp3 barons now?

I guess the Internet makes distribution way too easy, which is why it bothers them so much.

There was a lawsuit, except I don't think it was JVC that won. They call it the "Betamax" case for a reason 😛

 

[Kaervak]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
Advertising/Cable Subscription pays for the content when it originally airs.
DVD sales bring in more revenue and online leeching obviously cuts into this - less money for someone owns the rights to the material.

On a side note, I don't have much of an idea about the late 80s/early 90s when VHS came out, but I assume there was a huge legal battle about how it would simplify recording TV shows/movies. I am guessing JVC (VHS) won that lawsuit, if there ever was one.

Similarly, I used to record songs off the radio when I was a kid who couldn't afford to buy every record with a good song on it. The RIAA wasn't suing people then for taping songs off the radio: so why sue mp3 barons now?

I guess the Internet makes distribution way too easy, which is why it bothers them so much.

There was a lawsuit, except I don't think it was JVC that won. They call it the "Betamax" case for a reason 😛

Also, the reaseon why people aren't getting sued/it isn't illegal to record songs from the radio is it's considered fair use (recording from TV/radio) and the source quality, FM is sh!t compared to MP3. With satellite radio, the RIAA is going ape sh!t trying to block receivers that can record those streams. The higher the source quality that can be recorded, the more the MPAA/RIAA wants a death grip on it.

 

[JasonE4]

Originally posted by: neutralizer
You don't see the ads and you don't contribute to the number of viewers.

You don't contribute to the number of viewers anyway. Only people who have a special cable box can contribute to the ratings.

 

[Smartazz]

Illegal yes.
Is it immoral? Decide for yourself.

 

[Eos]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Isn't recording on VCR illegal though, too? Either way, despite it being "illegal," has anyone ever actually been prosecuted as a result? I don't remember a case where somebody was prosecuted for taping a TV show with their VCR and I don't think anybody has yet been prosecuted for downloading TV shows. So, even though it is illegal, I don't think it's realistic to enforce it.

No, recording to a VCR is considered time-shifting as declared by the Supreme Court in the MGM vs. Sony Betamax case.

I wonder if downloading from the 'net can be considered time-shifting IF you have cable and thus could have received that show anyway...

I doubt it as you are not only shifting the time but also the outlet.

I think if it had commercials and was not a really high quality then I doubt CBS/NBC/ABC/etc... would come after you. But I know SOMEONE that downloads TV shows and converts them to DVD to watch. The quality is very good... I hear. So there would be little reason to rent/buy the TV now.

I get maybe 10% that convert to DVD quality. Most groups are pretty bad with their quality. I buy the seasons I like, so the suits can eff off! No lawsuits for me.

 

[fatpat268]

Yea, it may be considered illegal because they're trying to draw viewers to ads, and they're losing money if they don't have a set amount of viewers. But honestly, who does watch ads anyway (besides during the superbowl)?

If something is in commercial, I just flip the channel or work on my notebook till it comes back on.
Either way, I don't see anything morally wrong with downloading the episodes. You could've done the exact same thing, record the show in hd quality and strip out all of the commercials. When you're downloading it online, somebody already did it for you, and there's no need to rip yourself. If you did it yourself, and burnt the episodes to dvd, you'd cut into dvd sales there as well.

copyright has too many ambiguities and exceptions.

 

[oCxTiTaN]

because of torrents and P2P I found Family Guy and CSI and have subsequently purchased All 4 of the released seasons of Family Guy for DVD, the first volume for PSP, the Stewie Griffin Movie on DVD, the first season of American Dad, and have watched new episodes on Fox, thus contributing to their "viewers" and seeing the ads. I also have purchased a season of CSI, am looking to buy the rest, am waiting for season 6 to be released and have bought some episodes on itunes.

Without the aforementioned mediums I would have never found those and never spent any of that money, the same can be said for much of the music I have purchased, as without Kazaa, Napster, Ares and Morpheus I'd have never heard many of the bands I have purchased songs and cds of.

People always argue that if I hadn't gotten my music free I'd have had to pay for it. Not true, I just wouldn't have it. Having had the ability to download some of my music is what caused me to end up spending money on that which I really liked.

 

[newmachineoverlord]

Uploading is illegal, sharing it is illegal. Downloading is legal. Thus if you're a leech, you're fine, but the people you download from are breaking the law if they're in the US, but not if they're in other places. Of course, if you're the copyrightholder and you download, then no crime was committed because the copyrightholder authorized the copying. Therefore it sould be impossible to prosecute filesharing because the collection of evidence by copyrightholders constitutes their consent to make the copy, and doesn't susbstantiate that any other copies were made without consent. Don't expect that to protect you if you fileshare though.

Of course the way laws are going in the USA, it won't be long before it's illegal to remember music and television shows, as that memory constitutes an illegal copy.

The product placement model renders the "commercials are missing" argument obsolete. The first Terminator prominently displayed nike and mentioned several guns by name, even saying that they were "ideal for home defense". Lots of shows have more product placement than they have commercials.

 

[sswingle]

Originally posted by: SmoochyTX

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Zeke

Originally posted by: mugs
Yes.

It is different because someone is distrubuting someone else's copyrighted material without their permission.

Ding.

Fries are done. Would you like an apple pie with that?

Edit: The networks have no problem with giving their content away - they already do that via TV. But they want to control it, and they want to use it to generate revenue. NBC already allows you to watch full shows on their website (not sure if it's all shows), I expect before too long you'll be able to watch the shows of every network online for free.

Just so everybody else knows also, CBS and ABC also offer the majority of their prime time shows online (as does NBC) for viewing as well. On THOSE networks, I don't understand why somebody would feel the need to seek an illegal download unless either their particular show is not available (on one of those three networks) or is just wanting to collect all of the episodes for later useage/sharing.

ETA - If you want it for future use for your ownself, you should record it your ownself.

I feel the need to download because I couldn't get the ABC download to go full screen, and there are commercials.

 

[tyler811]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Zeke

Originally posted by: mugs
Yes.

It is different because someone is distrubuting someone else's copyrighted material without their permission.

Ding.

Fries are done. Would you like an apple pie with that?

Edit: The networks have no problem with giving their content away - they already do that via TV. But they want to control it, and they want to use it to generate revenue. NBC already allows you to watch full shows on their website (not sure if it's all shows), I expect before too long you'll be able to watch the shows of every network online for free.

ABC does too that why I am not afraid to miss Lost now. I watch it on the net.

 

[StevenYoo]

Originally posted by: acemcmac
I dont know and I don't care,

:music:if i ever will seeeeeee you agaaaaain:music:

 

[aldamon]

Originally posted by: SmoochyTXJust so everybody else knows also, CBS and ABC also offer the majority of their prime time shows online (as does NBC) for viewing as well. On THOSE networks, I don't understand why somebody would feel the need to seek an illegal download unless either their particular show is not available (on one of those three networks) or is just wanting to collect all of the episodes for later useage/sharing.

Because I'd rather watch an HD-sourced, 16x9 XVID with 5.1 AC3 sound that looks pretty damn good on an HDTV (via a D-Link DSM-520) instead of some streamed, 4:3, stereo crap from the channel's Web site on a computer monitor.

 

[loic2003]

regular TV: commercials bring in revenue to pay for the show

intarweb: no revenue (unless you count making the shows hugely popular thus resulting in thousands of people buying the DVDs to the point whereby a show is reinstated)

 

[AMCRambler]

Didn't realize the shows were available on the networks websites. Is it a streaming thing? Or can I download the file and watch it? If it is streaming, is it only available when the show is airing? Or can you access it any time? Are there commercials?

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: newmachineoverlord
Uploading is illegal, sharing it is illegal. Downloading is legal. Thus if you're a leech, you're fine, but the people you download from are breaking the law if they're in the US, but not if they're in other places. Of course, if you're the copyrightholder and you download, then no crime was committed because the copyrightholder authorized the copying. Therefore it sould be impossible to prosecute filesharing because the collection of evidence by copyrightholders constitutes their consent to make the copy, and doesn't susbstantiate that any other copies were made without consent. Don't expect that to protect you if you fileshare though.

Of course the way laws are going in the USA, it won't be long before it's illegal to remember music and television shows, as that memory constitutes an illegal copy.

The product placement model renders the "commercials are missing" argument obsolete. The first Terminator prominently displayed nike and mentioned several guns by name, even saying that they were "ideal for home defense". Lots of shows have more product placement than they have commercials.

thats what I was thinking. So if you use some other sharing network that does not upload at all, technically you arent bending any laws, correct? Also, does it make it any better if you download stuff with brief commercials before/after shows left intact?

There definitely seems to a distinction to be drawn between illegal and immoral, and I am primarily interested in the former as far as this thread goes.