Is Diablo 3 a decent single player title now?

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sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
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Most of the Diablo 3 complaints land right in Diablo 2's wheelhouse as well. Which is why I typically have a hard time taking in D3 criticism. Those rose-tinted glasses get in the way quite a bit. And I did play my share of D2.

I read two points that I'm fine conceding. The first is lack of an economy. I would love more robust trading, preferably leaving real money out of it. I can at least appreciate how that's difficult. D2's grey market wasn't a great place. The auction house could probably even come back with Loot 2.0 intact. The initial issue with the auction house was how absolutely horrendous regular drops were. You were essentially forced to the auction house to gear your toon, and that was the worst thing D3 ever did, in my opinion.

The other is the story being awful. It would have been nice to get a better story, but at the same we shouldn't kid ourselves into thinking that the stories of the previous games were some kind of amazing. They were better, and that's as much praise as they deserve.

You chased gear in Diablo 2 as well, just not to the extent of D3.

Grifts being end-game is no different to me than endless Baal runs. At least grifts can scale and continue to provide a challenge. And be different.

Even so, it will always boil down to preference. The ARPG genre has a ton of options, many of them quite good. Not a lot of point getting all huffy when it's easy enough to just move on.

I still want to beat Titan Quest before moving on to Grim Dawn. Reading that a new expansion is on the way actually helps me wait it out some. Victor Vran is not quite doing it for me, but I'm still early in the game. Like I said earlier, PoE has never done it for me. I beat the first Torchlight, but never got very far into Torchlight 2.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
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I don’t really think it’s a nostalgia thing. I’ve played Diablo 2 since Diablo 3 came out and I still feel that it’s the stronger game.

In Diablo 2 when you found gear it had value for 3 different reasons. First, it could help your character. Second it could help another character. Third it had value in the economy. In Diablo 3 currently it’s the first, and a small possibility of the second.

In Diablo 2 mobs had loot tables so if you wanted a specific item you could farm the boss that gave you the best chance at it. Diablo 3 kind of has this with bounty rewards, but without the economy, once you get the item you want there’s almost no reason to go back. Greater Rifts loom over everything since the rewards are so great it feels you’re wasting time doing anything else.

The biggest mistake D3 made was ignoring much of D2 when they developed their game. Drop rates should never have been influenced by the Auction House. The AH should have been for people to post their best rares, excellent uniques, and awesome charms or runes. Instead, on release people played 200+ hours to find a legendary that wasn’t any good compared to the millions of rare items people posted on the AH. Of course people geared instantly when there was no item diversity, no reason to re-roll a character, and nothing but items to spend money on. Then, when Blizzard realized they had failed with the AH instead of fixing it they gave up and removed the economy entirely.



I honestly thought that D3 would be the last game I’d ever need to purchase. I thought that there would be an amazing item hunt and they would continue regular updates to the game. Instead I got pushed into Path of Exile where I found what I was looking for. What exactly don’t or didn’t you like about PoE? Every mistake I think Blizzard made I feel they’ve handled correctly with PoE :-/
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,339
1,936
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Great post Majes, it mirrors my thoughts and experiences almost identically. What really matters is not the name on the title - instead it is the vision and efforts of the people making the game. For me Path of Exile is a nearly perfect execution. D3 I spent maybe an hour on, compared to at least a hundred hours on D1 and hundreds of hours on D2/LOD.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
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While I will admit that the most consecutive time I've ever put in is about 1 hour of PoE, nothing about it grabbed me.

The atmosphere is darker, the character bios were well written, but once I got into that first town, everything seemed very "me too." As in, it seemed generic. It's not pretty, and that would be far less of an issue if the gameplay were there, but it never clicked for me. I see the sphere grid as the illusion of choice, and not actual choice. Aside from looking overwhelmingly awesome, any first character you make (assuming you're going in blind) will suck, period. That's not a great feeling when you find yourself unable to progress any further due to past choices hindering your potential. Kind of the opposite of any RPG in that respect. So, either create a lousy character and have to start over with a guide, or just start with a guide. That doesn't scream compelling to me.

Maybe it's changed enough in the last couple years, I don't know. I've tried it on 3 separate occasions and never cared much for it any of those times. Like I've been saying different strokes. You won't find me going into PoE threads just to dump on it or recommend other games. Yet it's quite acceptable for that in Diablo, because for whatever reason people refuse to let it go. All it does is annoy the people that actually like a thing. And yes, I realize it's possible to like a thing and still point out flaws. No one does that.

You also trivialized the D3 item hunt more than you should have. It's not enough to just get the specific legendary you need. You're far from done, unless that item is going into the cube. You need the item, it needs the right rolls, preferably close to the max of the potential range, the affix needs to be maxed if it's one with a range, and it should be ancient, soon primal.

And while not the same as D2's loot tables, there are a significant amount of cosmetic things that do require a hunt.

I also conceded the economy, no need to keep trying to convince me about it.

And to anyone who may try to convince me to give PoE another shot, how often did you try giving Diablo another shot? I feel like I gave it a fair shake. I just don't prefer it. The world will keep spinning.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
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Was anyone really trying to convince you? I just merely stated that it's a lot different than 2-3 years ago. I never got hooked back then and put thousands of hours into D3. Was on top 1000 leaderboard for 4 different characters. I doubt I'd ever touch the game again though.

If you want a pure D3 discussion, then post in the D3 discussion thread.
 

Stg-Flame

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2007
3,336
395
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I still want to beat Titan Quest before moving on to Grim Dawn. Reading that a new expansion is on the way actually helps me wait it out some.
Grim Dawn is Titan Quest 2. A lot of people regarded it as what Diablo 3 should have been, but then again, PoE took that title long before Grim Dawn opened itself to beta. I'll admit PoE was fun at first and it felt like everything actually had an impact (skills, gear, etc.), but by the time you made it to level 50ish, it was just a mindless slog. Grim Dawn actually has a pretty interesting story and I can't wait for the expansion just because I want to know what happens after the ending of Grim Dawn - the extra two classes and new areas are just a bonus for me. Not to mention Grim Dawn has several secret quests that hint back to older quest hunting of the NES and SNES generation (read quest logs, find a place, solve the riddle, find new clue, etc.).
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
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Again POE is completely different than two years ago. I could definitely understand how it could be considered boring but it's quite different. 3.0 will push this even further in June or July since we won't be repeating 4 acts 3 times.

Grim Dawn is decent, and character building is interesting. It just felt incredibly slow to me.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
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Was anyone really trying to convince you? I just merely stated that it's a lot different than 2-3 years ago. I never got hooked back then and put thousands of hours into D3. Was on top 1000 leaderboard for 4 different characters. I doubt I'd ever touch the game again though.

If you want a pure D3 discussion, then post in the D3 discussion thread.
Reading helps.

"And to anyone who may" is what I said. Because I every time I bring it up, people tell me I should try it again, a lot has changed. The same way a lot has changed in Diablo in the last two years as well, but no one wants to be told to try that game again even though they actually paid for it. So no, no one was trying to convince me. But that is also not what I said.

And why bother bringing up the other Diablo thread now? I was initially trying to avoid this thread getting de-railed by the people who always feel the need to throw out other games whenever Diablo gets mentioned. I explained that. This thread should also be a practically straight discussion of Diablo, because that is how the original question gets answered. I also explained that. I didn't say comparisons shouldn't be included, they're kind of necessary. I have discussed other ARPG games.

I mean, reading back through the thread, most of the detractors haven't touched the game in a long time. No awareness of adventure mode, grifts, legendary gems, etc. The game has changed significantly, and some of those people might even enjoy it now. If we want to have any kind of discussion, it'd be great if both sides were up to date.

Otherwise it ends up like a thread in the mobile devices board where everybody was just posting contradictory stuff about Plex. That was hilarious, and sad. I think they finally got it sorted out after about a dozen posts, though.

In any case, OP probably has enough information to make a decision. At least it seems they've got all that they can out of this thread.
 

Stg-Flame

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2007
3,336
395
126
Again POE is completely different than two years ago. I could definitely understand how it could be considered boring but it's quite different. 3.0 will push this even further in June or July since we won't be repeating 4 acts 3 times.
I'd like to revisit PoE just to see what's changed since I last played. I know the first new character came out right after I stopped playing, so there must be lots of changes.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
Reading helps.

"And to anyone who may" is what I said. Because I every time I bring it up, people tell me I should try it again, a lot has changed. The same way a lot has changed in Diablo in the last two years as well, but no one wants to be told to try that game again even though they actually paid for it. So no, no one was trying to convince me. But that is also not what I said.

And why bother bringing up the other Diablo thread now? I was initially trying to avoid this thread getting de-railed by the people who always feel the need to throw out other games whenever Diablo gets mentioned. I explained that. This thread should also be a practically straight discussion of Diablo, because that is how the original question gets answered. I also explained that. I didn't say comparisons shouldn't be included, they're kind of necessary. I have discussed other ARPG games.

I mean, reading back through the thread, most of the detractors haven't touched the game in a long time. No awareness of adventure mode, grifts, legendary gems, etc. The game has changed significantly, and some of those people might even enjoy it now. If we want to have any kind of discussion, it'd be great if both sides were up to date.

Otherwise it ends up like a thread in the mobile devices board where everybody was just posting contradictory stuff about Plex. That was hilarious, and sad. I think they finally got it sorted out after about a dozen posts, though.

In any case, OP probably has enough information to make a decision. At least it seems they've got all that they can out of this thread.
POE > D3
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,044
62
91
I'd like to revisit PoE just to see what's changed since I last played. I know the first new character came out right after I stopped playing, so there must be lots of changes.
2.6 is combining all 17 previous leagues.. 3.0 will be the huge content change. Either one would be fun to jump back into.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,339
1,936
126
2.6 is combining all 17 previous leagues.. 3.0 will be the huge content change. Either one would be fun to jump back into.
And the 2.6 league (Legacy) starting soon-March 3rd. Good time to jump in. 3.0 probably coming June or so.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
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I dont play online, even though I have decent internet. I enjoyed D3 a lot as single player, especially after they got rid of the auction house and made the drops for gear better.

If you haven't played it you should also try Titan Quest and it's expansion if you are looking for a hack and slash game.
 

Stg-Flame

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2007
3,336
395
126
I appreciate all the replies and now I have a new question. Would it be better to grab the battle chest now or wait for the final expansion and get them all together? I've read it's supposed to be a Q2 release but if it was really going to be released in Q2, it should have a specific date listed somewhere.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
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I appreciate all the replies and now I have a new question. Would it be better to grab the battle chest now or wait for the final expansion and get them all together? I've read it's supposed to be a Q2 release but if it was really going to be released in Q2, it should have a specific date listed somewhere.
I don't think there's going to be another expansion to Diablo 3. They are releasing paid DLC in the form of a necromancer soon-ish but there's been no announcement of an expansion pack...

Sweenish: I apologize if I put you on the defensive or anything. I'm pretty passionate about a few video games. I posted in the D3 forums for years arguing about the direction of the game and I still post begging them to bring an economy back. I post in the Dungeon Defenders forums and complain about the direction the game has taken. I know that my posts come across as negative but I do try to rationalize my arguments and I do have enough background in game-design to provide constructive criticism. I post because I care and I'm frustrated about the direction those games have taken.

I'm not sure when you've played PoE. There was a time when the game was really bad... That was years ago though. There's no illusion of choice with the skill tree. You can make whatever build you want. Any non-support spell or skill can beat the story and do mid level maps. Higher maps might require some fine-tuning of your tree, or following a build guide. I've played over 40 characters to 80+ (10ish to 90+) and while I sometimes follow build guides I never follow them exactly. If you play games you know that there's almost always a "most efficient" way to play or build. But even on the build guides for PoE you almost always see multiple ways a character can be built and there's genuine discussion over which is the best.

I didn't mean to trivialize the item hunt in D3. I meant to give an example of my play throughs which are basically run Act 1 bounties till I get RRoG, cube it, then rift until I get tired of it. I've played 4-5 of the seasons, but I tend to burn out at around 300 paragon levels. There just isn't enough variety to keep me going much longer than that. The item hunt is super frustrating for me since the only way to target an item I want is through gambling at Kadala. I miss targeted drops and trading.

I don't think Diablo 3 is horrible game. I may have even gotten 1,500 - 2,000 hours of play out of it. It's just not as good as it should have been, and frankly I think PoE blows it away.
 

Ranulf

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2001
1,939
510
136
Then, when Blizzard realized they had failed with the AH instead of fixing it they gave up and removed the economy entirely.
Oh, it was worse... they first nerfed gold find % affixes on gear and then when everyone swapped to magic find, they nerfed that. At that stage, they had to get rid of the AH because you either farm forever for some gold and a lucky drop for the AH or you quit. Anyway, D3 has gotten better but that initial release killed the arpg genre for me.
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,141
138
106
Here's what I get outta the Diablo games: Kill monsters and get loot. That's the only thing I want out of the diablo games anyway.

I have yet to play DIablo 3 on PC, because I finished the base game on 360 and got most of the way through the expansion. I may end up buying it on sale, or ask for it for Christmas or something.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
55,352
8,162
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Like I said before... It's fun for about 20-30 hours, but it just doesn't have any depth to it. Any game longevity is just blatant RNG layers or bigger numbers.
I've been enjoying collecting enough pieces of a given set for a character to try it out, and see which I like best. For example, the Shadow Mantle set for Demon Hunter plays rather differently than the Marauder set.
 

Stg-Flame

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2007
3,336
395
126
I don't think there's going to be another expansion to Diablo 3. They are releasing paid DLC in the form of a necromancer soon-ish but there's been no announcement of an expansion pack...
I was assuming the upcoming Necromancer was an expansion and not just a new character DLC.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
106
I was assuming the upcoming Necromancer was an expansion and not just a new character DLC.
I wouldn't consider it an expansion... Though the new primal ancients coming out should add a good bit of longevity to the game. If the Necro is 5-10 bucks I may even get it for a play through.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
55,352
8,162
126
I wouldn't consider it an expansion... Though the new primal ancients coming out should add a good bit of longevity to the game. If the Necro is 5-10 bucks I may even get it for a play through.
From what I understand, they're going to be making it so primals don't drop until you've done a GR70 solo. Despite the huge amount of hours I've put in, I'm at 61.
 

Majes

Golden Member
Apr 8, 2008
1,164
148
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From what I understand, they're going to be making it so primals don't drop until you've done a GR70 solo. Despite the huge amount of hours I've put in, I'm at 61.
Yeah I generally stop between 50 and 60 each season. So I doubt I'll ever see one.
 
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