Is Darwinism racist?

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: Riprorin

FWIW: Tomas de Torquemada's actions were driven by his Christian beliefs. And I'm sure there are plenty of other examples (Crusades?

Hitler called himself a Catholic. So?

Can you point out to me where in the Bible Christians are commanded to kill Jews?

Torquamada was a Christian. He was directly accountable to the Vatican.

Of course they don't tell them to kill jews (after all, Jews are the Gods chosen uber-race). But there are several passages where God tells his followers to kill other nationalities (races?).

Don't forget that the old testament is obsolete, and was replaced by whatever a person sees fit to believe when Jesus came!

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: Jellomancer
What are you getting at Riprorin? Are you asking if whites are smarter than blacks?
Look at IQ tests. In America, whites are smarter than blacks. It isn't because of genes, it's because of socioeconomic conditions that blacks and whites live under. And if rich blacks and poor whites were compared, who do you think would be "smarter"?

Actually they have done studies of HS kids at affluent communities in USA. Blacks kids still scored below white kids even though both blacks and whites came from rich communities. They attributed this to the public stigma that blacks are dumber and this affected the performance of black kids.

I don't think a race is inherently smarter than others. I think culture plays a much more important role.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

It was fun demolishing Riprorin's "arguments" with logic and counter-examples, but with his Creationist / Intelligent Design beliefs out in the open this will inevitably turn into yet another religion thread.

Dave, I'm an open minded guy and you've clearly demonstrated your superior debating skills by giving me a sound thrashing.

You presume to know what I believe; what do you believe and why? Convince me that I should adopt your beliefs so that I can escape my ignorance.

Moving on to the religious discussion . . .

I'm an agnostic. I accept the possibility that there might be a creator, and even that this creator might be guiding the evolution of mankind. This in no way contradicts the evidence for what will happen for any life forms not personally "meddled with" by a creator, which is evolution and natural selection.

In decades of reading I've come across no convincing evidence that the Bible's account of creation is accurate as literal truth, and in fact no evidence to convince me that the Christian Bible holds a monopoly on spiritual truth.

All of the evidence I've seen indicates that the universe is in fact billions of years old rather than thousands, unless God really did create and pre-age the universe to the extent of pre-decaying radioactive materials, creating pre-aged fossils, and creating and placing photons exactly as if they had been travelling for billions of years. I do accept that such is conceivable though, since I just did.

 

[0roo0roo]

Quotes from hitler.

"I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal." --Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

"I thank Heaven that a portion of the memories of those days still remains with me. Woods and meadows were the battlefields on which the 'conflicts' which exist everywhere in life were decided." --Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

"...God have mercy!" --Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

"I was not in agreement with the sharp anti-Semitic tone, but from time to time I read arguments which gave me some food for thought. At all events, these occasions slowly made me acquainted with the man and the movement, which in those days guided Vienna's destinies: Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Social Party." --Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

"How many of my basic principles were upset by this change in my attitude toward the Christian Social movement! My views with regard to anti-Semitism thus succumbed to the passage of time, and this was my greatest transformation of all."--Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."-- Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)...and also...

"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work."--Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936



some bible bs quotes for you since you brought it up.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

LEV 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
LEV 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
LEV 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."

MAT 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
(default is against)

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness."
..........Leviticus 25:44

"When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money."
..........Exodus 21:20

Slaves, be obedient to those who are your earthly masters, with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ...."
..........Ephesians 6:5


"Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, . . . and they shall be your possession . . . they shall be your bondmen forever."
..........Leviticus 25:45-46

"Let all who are under the yoke slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be defamed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brethren; rather they must serve all the better since those that benefit by their service are believers and beloved."
..........1 Timothy 6:1


"Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect..."
..........Titus 2:9


"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservant's do."
Leviticus 21:6-7



"Blessed are those servants whom the master finds awake when he comes...."
..........Luke 12:37



eh, and countless more.

 

[Peetoeng]

Jews are G-d chosen people, the bible says. It does not say 'race' or make any qualification regarding physical appearance as to why G-d chose the Jews. It was simply due to Abraham's faith. That's all there was to it. In the OT, when Israel attacked other kingdom, it's not because of their racial/physical appearance.

Regarding adaptioan, the notion of adaptation sometimes misunderstood. From what I read, It is NOT that species by their-own design adapt to their habitat during its lifetime. But when they reproduce, they create variations in their offsprings by random. Those variations that are more fit/suitable to the environment survive and reproduce, the other die away.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Peetoeng
Jews are G-d chosen people, the bible says. It does not say 'race' or make any qualification regarding physical appearance as to why G-d chose the Jews. It was simply due to Abraham's faith. That's all there was to it. In the OT, when Israel attacked other kingdom, it's not because of their racial/physical appearance.

Are jews a race or a religion? They seem to be both.

 

[0roo0roo]

and some quotes from fundie leader of the christian coalition pat robertson.... u know.. since christianity breeds tolernace and all that good stuff by your logic.
yes, he's that old guy that babbles on tv every day on the 700 club.

"When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" --from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," page 218.



"The mission of the Christian Coalition is simple," says Pat Robertson. It is "to mobilize Christians -- one precinct at a time, one community at a time -- until once again we are the head and not the tail, and at the top rather than the bottom of our political system." Robertson predicts that "the Christian Coalition will be the most powerful political force in America by the end of this decade." And, "We have enough votes to run this country...and when the people say, 'We've had enough,' we're going to take over!"--Pat Robertson


"The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening." -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, Dec. 30, 1981


"It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into (our) institutions (today) are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation."--Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986


"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them."--Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, January 14, 1991


(talking about apartheid South Africa) "I think 'one man, one vote,' just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 3/18/92


"NOW is saying that in order to be a woman, you've got to be a lesbian."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 12/3/97

"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." -- Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992

(talking about Planned Parenthood) "It is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism-everything that the Bible condemns."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 4/9/91


"I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 1/8/92


"The public education movement has also been an anti-Christian movement...We can change education in America if you put Christian principles in and Christian pedagogy in. In three years, you would totally revolutionize education in America." --Pat Robertson,"The 700 Club," September 27, 1993.



"You see what happened in 1962. They took prayer out of the schools. The next year the Supreme Court ordered Bible reading taken from the schools. And then progressing, liberals, most of them atheistic educators, have pushed to remove all religion from the lives of children...The people who wrote the "Humanist Manifesto" and their pupils and their disciples are in charge of education in America today." --Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," January 13, 1995



"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."-- George Bush


"If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt that they have no business administering government policies in a country that favors freedom and equality. ... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and the Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their suffering. ... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but abject fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made if they were ever put into practice." --Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," page 219.


"How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy money changers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?"--Pat Robertson, The New World Order, p.227

"We're going to bring back God and the Bible and drive the gods of secular humanism right out of the public schools of America." --Presidential candidate Pat Buchanan addressing the anti-gay rally in Des Moines, 2-11-96


"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93


"We want...as soon as possible to see a majority of the Republican Party in the hands of pro-family Christians by 1996." --Pat Robertson, Denver Post, 10/26/92



"Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals--the two things seem to go together."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 1/21/93



"I think we ought to close Halloween down. Do you want your children to dress up as witches? The Druids used to dress up like this when they were doing human sacrifice... [Your children] are acting out Satanic rituals and participating in it, and don't even realize it."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 10/29/82



"It's like guerrilla warfare. If you reveal your location, all it does is allow your opponent to improve his artillery bearings. It's better to move quietly, with stealth, under cover of night. You've got two choices: You can wear cammies and shimmy along on your belly, or you can put on a red coat and stand up for everyone to see. It comes down to whether you want to be the British army in the Revolutionary War or the Viet Cong. History tells us which tactic was more effective."--Ralph Reed Los Angeles Times, 3/22/92

 

[Riprorin]

I accept the possibility that there might be a creator, and even that this creator might be guiding the evolution of mankind.

So you believe that it's possible that the forces of nature alone are adequate to explain everything that exists and that nature acted through Darwinian mechanisms to evolve complex life-forms and, finally, human beings, with the marvels of consciousness and intelligence?

That seems to be a much greater leap of faith to me than believing in a creator.

By the way you're the one who turned this into a religious thread, not me. It was not my intent to discuss religion or relive the creation/evolution debate yet again.

I never said Darwinism was racist; the topic is stated as a question.

Is Darwinism racist? Clearly not. Has it been used to encourage and support racist beliefs? Clearly it has.

By the way, don't you think you're being a bit smug especially since Darwin's theory of unlimited change is dervied from observations of limited change in various species, extrapolating them back into the distant past - which, of course, he had not observed?. It is a conjecture, an extrapolation going far beyond any observed facts, is it not?

 

[Riprorin]

0roo0roo, kind of heavy on the Pat Robertson quotes. I may or may not agree with the quotes (frankly I didn't read them all) but who cares anyway. As far as I know, Pat doesn't speak for God.

I think it's pretty foolish to judge Christianity by Adolf Hitler, too.

If you want to know what Christianity is all about, read the Bible.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Riprorin By the way you're the one who turned this into a religious thread, not me. It was not my intent to discuss religion or relive the creation/evolution debate yet again.

Riprorin Hmm, let's contrast Darwin's word to the words in the Bible regarding race:

Your thread title is "Is Darwinism racist?" but from the beginning you've attempted to argue two points:
(a) Darwinism incites racism and so should not be taught in schools
(b) Evolution and Natural Selection are not valid theories

For (a) you've failed to show anything more than that evolution and natural selction can be corrupted and used in altered form by racists just as they've seized on Christianity, art, literature, music and other branches of science. That's a weak argument against teaching Darwinsm, particularly since I countered with the idea that a person "innoculated" with a proper understanding of the subject will be less susceptible to its misuse by racists.

For (b) you've argued that a specific example of natural selection is wrong, but had no good response to my pointing out that Natural Selection is accepted by both the scientific community and your own Christian scholars (including the one you quoted to debunk the pepper moth example). For evolution, you're arguing that a creator (presumanly the Christian God) is easier to accept than chance and nature.

Fair enough, but the central Intelligent Design argument ("look how improbable it is that X could evolve through chance or natural selection -- therefore God must exist") has a few flaws:
(a) there is no reason why, for example, an eye needed to evolve exactly the way it did. An engineer and/or biologist could come up with many other designs for perceiving electromagnetic radiation. It's a straw man argument against evolution to use the probability of a specifc design as opposed to any design that gets the job done.
(b) even on this one planet, four billion years is a lot of time for chance and selection to work with. If you rolled a 6-sided die a billion billion times in a row you'd get some amazingly improbable "runs" / sequences.
(c) who says this had to be the planet on which life evolved? NASA estimates there are on the order of 1021 stars in our Universe. Thats 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars which over billions of years offers a pretty good chance that one of them could produce intelligent life without the need for a creator.

So yes, I'm smug in my belief that we might not need a Creator in order for us to exist.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Love this Hitler stuff. Let's run with it a bit

If Hitler came up with evolution, would it then be anti semetic?

If Mao came up with it would it be Chinese?

If Richard Simmons came up with it would it be gay?

Uhh... no.

It is what it is. It does not get cranky if it does not get enough sleep and it does not get hungry if it doesnt eat.

Evolution is a generally accepted theory. The End. Some may not like it, some may love it, but it does not care about you.

Now one can debate if Darwin was a racist, but remember that the general belief was that blacks WERE inferior to whites. That was generally accepted theory. Now one might use evolution to account for this "truth", but in fact what happened would have been using it to acount for a percieved fact which is was not true. Everyone here knows better of course because each generation is superior to the last and holds them accountable to a standard which did not exist in prior days, but that is another topic even if relevant to this one.
Bottom line is

1) Evolution can be no more racist than the number line can be.

2) Darwin almost certainly believed blacks were inferior because EVERYONE did, at least those who were educated and white. If you had approached the men of the day and yelled at them for being racist, it would have made as much sense to them as if someone from the future came back and yelled at you because you are "colorist" because you might like blue better than red. It would have made no sense to them at all.

BTW- I have no idea why religion is yet again in one of these threads, other than it sits at the forebrain of many here fermenting and waiting to be trotted out like a whipping boy. People flog it for a bit then send it back to wait for another chance for abuse.

Hitler-did this-and-he-said-he-was-a-christian-therefore-christians-are-hitlers thinking makes exactly as much sense as saying that Stalin-and-Mao-were-athiests-and-killed-tens-of-millions therefore-athiests-are-blood-lusting-mass-murderers. Generalizations like this will really get both sides embarrased in public if those views are brought before real, live, thinking people.

Anyway, now that I insulted just about everyone, have at.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Love this Hitler stuff. Let's run with it a bit
BTW- I have no idea why religion is yet again in one of these threads, other than it sits at the forebrain of many here fermenting and waiting to be trotted out like a whipping boy. People flog it for a bit then send it back to wait for another chance for abuse.

Good post. Apparently you weren't bored enough to read this sequence 🙂


Riprorin
Yet before Darwinian evolution was popularized, when most people talked about "races," they were referring to such groups as the "English race," "Irish race," etc.
What do you think the impact of this has been?

DaveSimmons
Before Darwinian evolution whites were just as capable of considering themselves superior to the "oriental races", "savages", etc.

I would say the impact has been that people who were already racist have attempted to misuse evolution to "prove" superiority just as they've used mathematics, history, measurements of skull shape and size, art, music, literature, Christianity and skin color. As you yourself admit, misuse of a technology does not make that technology evil.

Riprorin
Hmm, let's contrast Darwin's word to the words in the Bible regarding race: . . .


It was pretty obvious from his earlier posts that Riprorin was at least as intent as attacking evolution as "proving" that teaching it incites racism, and (from quoting Creationist scholars) that his objection was at least partly religious.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Riprorin: Though I tend to disagree with you on matters of religion (being agnostic myself), I respected you until this. This thread is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to discredit something that you have no scientific or rational reasoning against.

ZV

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider Love this Hitler stuff. Let's run with it a bit BTW- I have no idea why religion is yet again in one of these threads, other than it sits at the forebrain of many here fermenting and waiting to be trotted out like a whipping boy. People flog it for a bit then send it back to wait for another chance for abuse.

Good post. Apparently you weren't bored enough to read this sequence 🙂 Riprorin Yet before Darwinian evolution was popularized, when most people talked about "races," they were referring to such groups as the "English race," "Irish race," etc. What do you think the impact of this has been? DaveSimmons Before Darwinian evolution whites were just as capable of considering themselves superior to the "oriental races", "savages", etc. I would say the impact has been that people who were already racist have attempted to misuse evolution to "prove" superiority just as they've used mathematics, history, measurements of skull shape and size, art, music, literature, Christianity and skin color. As you yourself admit, misuse of a technology does not make that technology evil. Riprorin Hmm, let's contrast Darwin's word to the words in the Bible regarding race: . . . It was pretty obvious from his earlier posts that Riprorin was at least as intent as attacking evolution as "proving" that teaching it incites racism, and (from quoting Creationist scholars) that his objection was at least partly religious.

Yep, true dat, but go up one more level. What would be the motivation to create a thread (and not just this one) to bring in a religious topic disguised as another issue. I have seen both Christians and Athiests do this. You must have noticed it. Someone will bring up something that has not to subtle religious overtones. Flames begin as they always do. I think the core question would be this. Why do people like to troll? Why is it fun? Now, I have been known to prod things along in a direction that amuses me, so this is not a WTF DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING!!!:|:|:| comment, but a question, perhaps unanswerable, about human nature. Y'all can ignore this if ya like, just being introspective about the species I guess 😉

 

[DaveSimmons]

Yep, true dat, but go up one more level. What would be the motivation to create a thread (and not just this one) to bring in a religious topic disguised as another issue. I have seen both Christians and Athiests do this. You must have noticed it.

I noticed it here, but it was fun to see how well he'd be able to push his hidden agenda without bringing it into the open. It was also interesting to me to see that Creationists have come up with a new tactic (racism) to attack evolution and natural science.

It's a good question to ask why people (religious and atheist) do this rather that stating their position openly, but I'd have to point out that people do this for every other "us vs. them" as well: Republican vs. Democrat, Microsoftie vs Tuxen, ATI vs. nVidia fan etc.

My best guess is that people realize they won't convince the "other side" through an open debate, and so hope to sway people by coming at the issue from another angle.

 

[Riprorin]

Dave, actually the reason I started this thread is because of a previous inane "thinly veiled" racist thread about why there aren't more black quarterbacks. This theread incensed me and prompted to do some investigation on the sources of racism. I think that Darwin and his followers to contributed to racism by suggesting the blacks were less elvoved than whites. Darwinism gave racism a "scientific basis".

The issue of religion came up because of this comment that you made:

"I would say the impact has been that people who were already racist have attempted to misuse evolution to "prove" superiority just as they've used mathematics, history, measurements of skull shape and size, art, music, literature, Christianity and skin color. As you yourself admit, misuse of a technology does not make that technology evil."

I then made a comment that the Bible does not distinguish among races but considers all people one. I contrasted this to blatant racist remarks by Darwin and his minions.

This kicked off the whole religion/evolution/creation thing. You pushed my button, I admit it.

I find racism abhorent and perhaps I let my emotions get the better of me. If I offended anyone I apologize for it.

By the way, while I live in a suburban area, I choose to send my children to a racially integrated city-Catholic school (~40% minority children). I'm convinced that they will be better people as a result of their experience.

 

[Siddhartha]

Racists, Nazis for example, have used Darwin to justify their philosophies.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Racists, Nazis for example, have used Darwin to justify their philosophies.

well ussually at its root is religion. to that they'll add anything that helps. its not some simple unguided natural selection they use, they believe that their superiority is ordained by god.

its gotta be that way.. has more authority it seems.

 

[blackhawk]

More like a speciest I think.

As humans, we tend to overate our impact as individuals and a race on each other and the environment. Take global warming & the Kyoto Accord for instance which blames the industrialized nations for climactic change.

What industries were there 10000 years ago that caused warming to end the last ice age? And what caused it to begin?

But anyway, races evolved for reasons based in nature & genetics and probably developed separately due to the smaller numbers of people and the difficulty in travel plus the ingrained nature of any species to fight with those that are different.

Always look to see who gains when individuals make statements like these.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Racists, Nazis for example, have used Darwin to justify their philosophies.

well ussually at its root is religion. to that they'll add anything that helps. its not some simple unguided natural selection they use, they believe that their superiority is ordained by god.

its gotta be that way.. has more authority it seems.

????

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Racists, Nazis for example, have used Darwin to justify their philosophies.

well ussually at its root is religion. to that they'll add anything that helps. its not some simple unguided natural selection they use, they believe that their superiority is ordained by god.

its gotta be that way.. has more authority it seems.

????

translation, they believe god made them superior through evolution. or they simply like the phrase survival of the fittest and use it however.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

If your God is real then why grasp at straws?

 

[0roo0roo]

? u talkin to me? hehe


they'll take anything they can get dem racists. but the root belief is ussually about preordained superiority.


anyways.. bah.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
It was fun demolishing Riprorin's "arguments" with logic and counter-examples, but with his Creationist / Intelligent Design beliefs out in the open this will inevitably turn into yet another religion thread.

It is interesting to see the Creationists taking a new tack: since they couldn't get Creation "Science" into classrooms and are having a tough time pushing the retooled "Intelligent Design" version, they're now trying to remove teaching of evolution and natural selection by calling them racist. If you can't win with an open and logical debate, try an ad hominem attack.

Yup, you're thoughts on this being a new angle are spot on.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Now one can debate if Darwin was a racist, but remember that the general belief was that blacks WERE inferior to whites. That was generally accepted theory. Now one might use evolution to account for this "truth", but in fact what happened would have been using it to acount for a percieved fact which is was not true. Everyone here knows better of course because each generation is superior to the last and holds them accountable to a standard which did not exist in prior days, but that is another topic even if relevant to this one.

Yet does the fact that they tried to use it as argument for a racist idea make it less valid? Would me claiming white people are better because the Bible doesn't mention blacks or Asians specifically mean the Bible should be forbidden? Because that is what Riprorin seems to be claiming.

Hitler-did this-and-he-said-he-was-a-christian-therefore-christians-are-hitlers thinking makes exactly as much sense as saying that Stalin-and-Mao-were-athiests-and-killed-tens-of-millions therefore-athiests-are-blood-lusting-mass-murderers. Generalizations like this will really get both sides embarrased in public if those views are brought before real, live, thinking people.

See the first point. Why is it that you cannot take the act of a single person to condemn Christianity, but can you take the ideas of a single person concerning his own superiority (which at that time was shared by 99.9% of his white, Christian fellows) and use that to condemn everything he did or said?