Is Communism / Sociolism the wave of the future?

[Vic]

Originally posted by: fitzov

here's my advice to you if you want to discuss this topic any further with me. Get a degree in economics and finance law, work 11 years in the banking and finance industries, then get back to me. Until then, kindly STFU with your known-to-be-false Marxist rhetoric.

lol...read an introductory textbook in logic and lookup ad hominem--that's the fallacy you just used to support your as-yet unexplained creation of wealth by shifiting commodities.

Actually (just to correct you), the particular fallacy I used there is called Appeal to Authority, not Ad hominem.

I think it holds up, however, given your obvious ignorance on this subject. You're attempting to argue the Labor theory of value from the Marxist perspective and doing terribly. The concept of intrinsic values being different than actual market prices is an aspect of classical economics that is no longer accepted as being valid. It wouldn't surprise me if you condemned Smith for this while praising Marx at the same time.

Creation of wealth through buying and selling is called value added BTW. It occurs for a multitude of reasons, ranging from changing supply and demand to simple market perception. Value is subjective.

You have not answered (hell, you have downright ignored) many of my questions. For example, about the values of intangible labors that do not require the use of any material, i.e. services and technologies. Or of the values of labors that serve no productive good. Don't play those little games the circle-jerkers play in P&N where they think they can ignore their opponent's entire arguments while accusing their opponent of ignoring some fine point of their own (even when it has been addressed) simply because the point has not been answered to their liking. That only works there because only the circle-jerkers hang out in P&N. We're in OT here, where your ideology is of the minority opinion.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: OSX
Socialism + Democracy would be rather interesting. Failing that, reregulating the market FTW!

It already exists (partially and in varying degrees) in France, Sweden, and the UK. Tax rape of the middle class that benefits the rich FTL! Democratic socialism is just fascism without the nationalism. Profit is private, loss is public.

 

[The Batt?sai]

I'd say the most expensive city to live in is New York still.

 

[fitzov]

Actually (just to correct you), the particular fallacy I used there is called Appeal to Authority, not Ad hominem.

You also make that fallacy, but the greater error is in the accusation of my ignorance. one version of the fallacy goes like this:

Person A: if p then q.
Person B: person A has no justification for claiming that if p then q, because he is ignorant.
therefore, not if p then q.

but I'll let you go on with your strange ideas about how peoples' perceptions and desires create wealth. a perception does nothing--it is not an action that produces anything. whereas labor, on the other hand, is a commodity that exists in the real world. it is much easier to understand how something that actually exists--something that is essentially human action on material--can create wealth.

you are no stranger to P&N

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: fitzov

Actually (just to correct you), the particular fallacy I used there is called Appeal to Authority, not Ad hominem.

You also make that fallacy, but the greater error is in the accusation of my ignorance. one version of the fallacy goes like this:

Person A: if p then q.
Person B: person A has no justification for claiming that if p then q, because he is ignorant.
therefore, not if p then q.

but I'll let you go on with your strange ideas about how peoples' perceptions and desires create wealth. a perception does nothing--it is not an action that produces anything. whereas labor, on the other hand, is a commodity that exists in the real world. it is much easier to understand how something that actually exists--something that is essentially human action on material--can create wealth.

you are no stranger to P&N

You have not answered (hell, you have downright ignored) many of my questions. For example, about the values of intangible labors that do not require the use of any material, i.e. services and technologies. Or of the values of labors that serve no productive good.

 

[tooltime]

never man

 

[JS80]

All this talk of "creating wealth" and you have no idea how it's created. It's only created in 3 ways:

1) Invention/Innovation
2) Create Value
3) Speculation

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: fitzov

Actually (just to correct you), the particular fallacy I used there is called Appeal to Authority, not Ad hominem.

You also make that fallacy, but the greater error is in the accusation of my ignorance. one version of the fallacy goes like this:

Person A: if p then q.
Person B: person A has no justification for claiming that if p then q, because he is ignorant.
therefore, not if p then q.

but I'll let you go on with your strange ideas about how peoples' perceptions and desires create wealth. a perception does nothing--it is not an action that produces anything. whereas labor, on the other hand, is a commodity that exists in the real world. it is much easier to understand how something that actually exists--something that is essentially human action on material--can create wealth.

you are no stranger to P&N

I'm really not seeing the ad hominem in Vic's post

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: JS80
All this talk of "creating wealth" and you have no idea how it's created. It's only created in 3 ways:

1) Invention/Innovation
2) Create Value
3) Speculation

Great explanation--it can only be interpreted in a million ways.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: Aflac
China is becoming an economic powerhouse because of the forces of capitalism, not communism. At least, that's how I see it...

This is true. They didn't start making it rich until they started using our business practices and had the government butt out.

 

[Kanalua]

It's been working out great for Communism/Socialism.

 

[bobsmith1492]

Fatal flaw with socialism/communism as far as the economy goes: people are 1. lazy and 2. greedy.
I.E., people want everything while doing nothing, and that's impossible without a system of rewarding people based on what they do as an incentive to do something.

 

[Vic]

The fatal flaw of socialism/communism is the economic calculation problem. The inability of any central planning agency to set prices leads inevitably to inefficiency, poverty, and tyranny.

 

[theslickvik]

There is a reason communism failed in the USSR

NEVER IN THE US