Is Bush lying again?

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
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Either he is completely lying to all of us or completely incompetent. I know that from his track record, I'm having a hell of a time trying to decide which cause he has been equally adept at both in the past.

CBO: Iraq surge could actually total 50,000

A new congressional report says the increase of 21,500 combat troops for Iraq proposed by the Bush administration could result in up to 50,000 troops actually being deployed to the region.

The report from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office bases that projection on the fact that the Bush plan is unclear about whether the 21,500 troops needed to quell violence are all combat troops or if that number already includes support forces.

?Over the past few years, DoD?s practice has been to deploy a total of about 9,500 per combat brigade to the Iraq theater, including about 4,000 combat troops and about 5,500 supporting troops,? says the five-page report requested by Rep. John Spratt, D-S.C., the House Budget Committee chairman, and Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., the House Armed Services Committee chairman.

Spratt, the budget committee chairman and the second-ranking Democrat on the armed services committee, notes that about $379 billion already has been spent on the war in Iraq and a request for an additional $100 billion is expected next week.

?An average of 170,000 military personnel has been maintained in the Iraq theater of operations, and this high deployment level has taken a toll,? he said, noting that last year, the Defense Department cut troops? time at home between deployments from two years to one so it could have enough people to deploy.

Spratt said the report raises the question of whether even one year at home between deployments can be guaranteed. ?The Pentagon will probably have to relax ?dwell-time? standards even more,? Spratt said, using the military phrase to describe time at home between deployments.

Skelton said the report ?appears to conflict with the estimate given by the chief of staff of the Army in his testimony. We will want to carefully investigate just how big the president's troop increase really is. Is it 21,500 troops, or is it really closer to 33,000 or 43,000??

At a Jan. 23 hearing, Army Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker said he believed the 21,500 increase included four support battalions. ?Right now, we do not anticipate there will be increased combat service support requirements over what is now embedded inside of the brigade combat teams we have,? Schoomaker said.

Army spokesman Lt. Col. Gary Kolb said Schoomaker?s Jan. 23 comments before members of the House Armed Services Committee are ?still accurate.?

The support needs of the additional five brigade combat teams will be satisfied by the current support network in Iraq and the support units embedded within those teams, Kolb said Feb. 1.

But the additional support troops included in the budget office estimates are based on the possibility that Schoomaker is wrong, an armed services committee aide said. ?While Schoomaker initially said it wouldn?t take extra support troops, CBO doesn?t believe that is possible,? said an aide to Skelton.

The key point of the report is to try to determine how much the new Iraq strategy might cost. The report estimates it would cost $9 billion to $13 billion for a four-month deployment and $20 billion to $27 billion for a one-year deployment of the additional 21,500 troops. Those expenses would be on top of the $8 billion to $13 billion a month for the current force of about 135,000 deployed in Iraq.

The report says the Pentagon ?has identified only combat units for deployment? and has not yet indicated which support units will be deployed.

?Army and DoD officials have indicated that it will be both possible and desirable to deploy fewer additional support units than historical practice would indicate,? the report says. ?Even if the additional brigades required fewer support units than historical practice suggests, those units would still represent a significant additional number of military personnel.?

Under the administration?s plan, the force increase ? already under way ? will reach its peak in May. The plan calls for a three-month buildup with a similarly gradual decline when the mission is done. The report does not try to estimate how long the mission might last, looking at only the cost to sustain it for various lengths of time.

Skelton said in a statement that cost is a major issue. ?We were concerned that the full financial cost of the escalation would never be made clear to the American people,? he said.

?What the CBO found concerns me,? Skelton said. Part of his worry is based on Schoomaker?s assertion that additional support troops are not needed. Skelton worries combat troops might not have the combat support and combat service support needed if the administration tries to hold down the number of deployed troops.

Rep. Martin Meehan, D-Mass., chairman of the House Armed Services subcommittee on oversight and investigations that has launched a review of Iraq-related costs, said he also is concerned. ?I am disturbed that the administration's figures may not be fully accounting for what a true force increase will entail; if combat troops are deployed, their support needs must not be shortchanged,? Meehan said in a statement.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Did it occur to you that maybe the CBO is lying?

Read this line and see if you can figure it out for yourself.
"plan is unclear about whether the 21,500 troops needed to quell violence are all combat troops or if that number already includes support forces"
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Let's look for clues of Bush lying. Were his lips moving? If so, yep, he was lying.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
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Do you not count support people as part of what is needed when you consider such a major influx? Or is Bush simply being intellectually honest by NOT adding them to his total to make it seem less than what it really is to garner support?

In either case, he fits into the topic title/summary perfectly. He is lying or completely incompetent when it comes to all things military.

Your choice.

Edit: added NOT
 

PELarson

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2001
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Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Do you not count support people as part of what is needed when you consider such a major influx? Or is Bush simply being intellectually honest by NOT adding them to his total to make it seem less than what it really is to garner support?

In either case, he fits into the topic title/summary perfectly. He is lying or completely incompetent when it comes to all things military.

Your choice.

Edit: added NOT


Based on past performance I would say he is both lying or completely incompetent when it comes to all things military.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: PELarson
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Do you not count support people as part of what is needed when you consider such a major influx? Or is Bush simply being intellectually honest by NOT adding them to his total to make it seem less than what it really is to garner support?

In either case, he fits into the topic title/summary perfectly. He is lying or completely incompetent when it comes to all things military.

Your choice.

Edit: added NOT


Based on past performance I would say he is both lying or completely incompetent when it comes to all things military.

umm, yeah, the equivalent of giving a lunatic a gun.

 

Arcex

Senior member
Mar 23, 2005
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Based on Bush's past experience I'd say both, he's thouroughly incompetent in all things military and he's lying his ass off.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Did it occur to you that maybe the CBO is lying?

Read this line and see if you can figure it out for yourself.
"plan is unclear about whether the 21,500 troops needed to quell violence are all combat troops or if that number already includes support forces"

I will consider Bush lying until he takes an Oath to tell the Truth. Something he has avoided all his life!
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: PrevaricatorJohn
Did it occur to you that maybe the CBO is lying?
I posted about this same report two weeks ago:
Bush lied and thousands died. More Bush lies, and more thousands die. :(

Cliffs:

The Congressional Budget Office reports Bush's "surge" could cost as much as $10 billion this year, nearly triple the initial $3.2 billion price tag that Bush aides placed on it.

The cost could rise as high as $29 billion if the additional troops remain in Iraq for more than a year, and under traditional staging formulas, the added combat troops could require up to 28,000 support personnel, at a cost of another $12 billion through next year because thousands of support personnel would have to accompany those sent into combat.

It projected a range of costs tied to four scenarios for the surge, from one peaking at 35,000 troops and lasting 10 months to one peaking at 48,000 troops and lasting 18 months.

Story from The Mercury News:
Surge to cost triple Bush projection, CBO says

By James Rosen

(Story deleted for brevity. See the link.)
Unlike you, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is NONPARTISAN.
The Congressional Budget Office is a federal agency within the legislative branch of the United States government. It was created by the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974.

With respect to the estimation of spending for Congress, the Congressional Budget Office serves a purpose parallel to that of the Joint Committee on Taxation for the estimation of revenue for Congress, the Department of the Treasury for the estimation of revenues for the executive branch, and the Office of Management of Budget for the estimation of spending for the executive branch.

The responsibilities of this office include projecting the budgetary effects of proposed legislation. The main goal is to provide Congress with objective, timely, nonpartisan analyses needed for economic and budget decisions and with the information and estimates required for the Congressional budget process. This includes projections on the effect on national debt.
If you don't like Wikepedia's info, try the CBO's own site:
In keeping with CBO's nonpartisan role, staff of the Budget Analysis Division are responsive and accessible to both the majority and minority parties.
PrevaricatorJohn -- Not only are you a liar, you're freaking DISGUSTING! :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:
 

CocoGdog

Senior member
May 31, 2000
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I believe the word is Propaganda. If it's not Iraq, then it's Iran. If it's not Iran, then it's North Korea. If it's not North Korea, then it's Venezuela. If it's not Venezuela, the it's Al Queda. If it's not Al Queda, then it's the new Russian states. Infinity...

The world that we live in now is full of pins and needles.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
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It makes sense and I thought Bush admitted a couple of weeks ago the actual total number of troops to move was closer to 39,000 than 21,000?

I remember an article about it from a threat in this forum.

btw I believe in years past the number of support troops compared to combat troops was much higher. Something like 3500 combat troops and 6500-7000 support personel.

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Since many of our over deployed troops are reaching a point where they must be rotated back stateside, even as the rules were being modified, just achieving 21,500 extra personnel will involve shuffling many more than a mere 21,500 in. Then you must also realize---that for every soldier killed---about ten soldiers are gravely wounded---so we are talking about 33,000 troops by now. And that combined number are no longer assets the military can count on.

The dead are no longer worth anything---the wounded that survive are dead drags on national assets.
Which is why Bush is cutting veteran funding?---------for all you GWB supporters out there--veteran funding is the only gage for measuring Presidential gratitude to our troops.

 

steppinthrax

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2006
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I don't know the story nor did I read it but I can say this without having ot. Pretty much you apply the same rule to bush that you would apply to drug dealers. If his lips are moving he is pretty much lying.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Did it occur to you that maybe the CBO is lying?
No, why? You got something on them? Other than a baseless accusation?

"plan is unclear about whether the 21,500 troops needed to quell violence are all combat troops or if that number already includes support forces"
Well, the plan is certainly unclear. That much is true. :roll:

Bush has NEVER leveled with the American people about any aspect of this war. I mean, just as one example, look at the whole BS maneuver of requesting war funds outside of the normal budget. Not to mention the constant underestimations of how much the war would cost, etc. What about stop-loss? Pushing reservists into what amounts to active duty? I mean, do I need to go on?

About the only thing he's gotten right is that it would be "...hard work..."
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
Of course he's lying. This is Bush after all. In the future, the word "bush" will probably be synonymous with lying. People will say "stop bushing to me!".

Also, I haven't heard anyone talk about the extra in mercenaries, oh, I mean "contractors", that will also be needed to support the troops.
 

tomywishbone

Golden Member
Oct 24, 2006
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Originally posted by: Arcex
Based on Bush's past experience I'd say both, he's thouroughly incompetent in all things military and he's lying his ass off.


Gotta agree with that! :)