Is Berkeley Ready to Pay for Sex-Change Operations?

[between]

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[pcgeek11]

To me that's like saying viagra/levitra/cialis is a medical necessiity. If they are then sex change operations are. If not, then they aren't.

Apples do not equal Oranges.

Viagra/Levitra/Cialis are for treating a known malfunctioning of a body part and actually works. They are usually covered by insurance and not paid for by the taxpayers.

Wanting to have your functional body parts replaced with different functional body parts to treat a mental condition is a completely different thing In other words trading in your penis for a vagina or vice versa is not going to help the brain work any differently.

If your insurance covers it I couldn't care less. When they expect the taxpayers to pay for it ... well that is just stupid.

No wonder CA is sliding down the shitter. I can hardly wait until they disappear down the pipe or slide off the continental shelf into the pacific ocean. I just hope Pelosi is home when it happens.

This is just as fucked up as the Bell, CA city manager making >$700,000.00 a year along with the rest of the city employees making hundreds of thousands a year. Now the town is bankrupt

 

[Carmen813]

Are sex changes really ever a medical necessity? It seems just as likely that someone is suffering from a treatable mental problem (with drugs or therapy) than they are truly "trapped within the body of another gender."

It depends, but there are cases where drugs/therapy is not the appropriate treatment, or at least the final/end treatment. There is evidence of biological differences in the brains of trans-gender individuals.

Obtaining a sex change operation is not a simple matter. It's not like you can wake up tomorrow and go "I want a sex change" and get it done. There are a great deal of issues that come from switching between genders that need to be addressed in counseling prior to the surgery. AFAIK, it typically requires you to live for at least one year as a member of the gender you are changing to and extensive counseling before the physical surgery will be done.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I know prisoners have sued and won to get states to pay for their sex operations.

 

[bfdd]

No operation can actually change you to the other sex. Your biology defines what you are. To me a sex change operation is on par with churches trying to convert gays to straights.

Should gay reprogramming be covered too?

So you can be born gay, but not born into the wrong body? How does that make any sense to you?

btw for some transgenders this surgery is like curing someones catarax who hasn't been able to see for 80 years. to think it isn't possible that someone could be born with their brain wired differently than their body is completely asinine.

 

[pcgeek11]

So you can be born gay, but not born into the wrong body? How does that make any sense to you?

btw for some transgenders this surgery is like curing someones catarax who hasn't been able to see for 80 years. to think it isn't possible that someone could be born with their brain wired differently than their body is completely asinine.

Yes all of this is possible and fine.

BUT The taxpayers should not pay for your elective surgery.

 

[HAL9000]

Yes all of this is possible and fine.

BUT The taxpayers should not pay for your elective surgery.

It's not elective if it's based on a mental health condition.

 

[Infohawk]

So you can be born gay, but not born into the wrong body? How does that make any sense to you?

The whole concept of being born into the wrong body is ridiculous. Maybe you want to elaborate. It assumes some sort of mind-body dichotomy that doesn't really exist.

 

[HAL9000]

The whole concept of being born into the wrong body is ridiculous. Maybe you want to elaborate. It assumes some sort of mind-body dichotomy that doesn't really exist.

I disagree there's nothing to say that your brain couldn't work the same as someone with the opposite sex, if a person can be born with (or develop) multiple personalities then theres nothing to say they can't be born with a personality that doesn't match their gender.

 

[Carmen813]

The whole concept of being born into the wrong body is ridiculous. Maybe you want to elaborate. It assumes some sort of mind-body dichotomy that doesn't really exist.

A couple of things you need to know.

1.) All invertebrate embryos begin life as female. It takes hormones and other developmental processes to become male.

2.) There are species that can switch sexes under certain circumstances.

(Thank you Jurassic Park for the above two)

3.) Neurological studies in humans have found evidence of female brain characteristics in the bodies of male transgender individuals. It has been published in peer-reviewed journals: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

Not only is the concept not, "ridiculous", but it is in fact something that happens due to errors in normal biological processes.

 

[HAL9000]

A couple of things you need to know.

1.) All invertebrate embryos begin life as female. It takes hormones and other developmental processes to become male.

2.) There are species that can switch sexes under certain circumstances.

(Thank you Jurassic Park for the above two)

3.) Neurological studies in humans have found evidence of female brain characteristics in the bodies of male transgender individuals. It has been published in peer-reviewed journals: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

Not only is the concept not, "ridiculous", but it is in fact something that happens due to errors in normal biological processes.

I completely agree with this.

Awesome.

 

[pcgeek11]

Who gives a shit. The Taxpayers should not be expected to pay for it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Who gives a shit. The Taxpayers should not be expected to pay for it.

Well it is Bizzerkely Taxpayers who are footing the Bill, maybe they are OK with it. If they aren't they can do something about it at the Polls.

 

[OCGuy]

Whackjobs....

 

[HAL9000]

Who gives a shit. The Taxpayers should not be expected to pay for it.

I give a shit, the tax payers should pay for health care, and do (over here)

 

[pcgeek11]

I give a shit, the tax payers should pay for health care, and do (over here)

Well everybody knows you are a whack job.

 

[HAL9000]

Well everybody knows you are a whack job.

Everybody knows nothing about me.

 

[Infohawk]

A couple of things you need to know.

1.) All invertebrate embryos begin life as female. It takes hormones and other developmental processes to become male.

2.) There are species that can switch sexes under certain circumstances.

(Thank you Jurassic Park for the above two)

3.) Neurological studies in humans have found evidence of female brain characteristics in the bodies of male transgender individuals. It has been published in peer-reviewed journals: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

Not only is the concept not, "ridiculous", but it is in fact something that happens due to errors in normal biological processes.

Female brain characteristics? So what. Many gay people act effeminate and obviously have female brain characteristics (e.g., wanting to have sex with men). Doesn't mean they're stuck in the wrong body. It's like people act like this is some body-switching episode of the x-files.

 

[HAL9000]

Female brain characteristics? So what. Many gay people act effeminate and obviously have female brain characteristics (e.g., wanting to have sex with men). Doesn't mean they're stuck in the wrong body. It's like people act like this is some body-switching episode of the x-files.

I think it's a bit further than just wanting cock, I'm bisexual but I'm not a pre-op transgender.

 

[Infohawk]

I disagree there's nothing to say that your brain couldn't work the same as someone with the opposite sex, if a person can be born with (or develop) multiple personalities then theres nothing to say they can't be born with a personality that doesn't match their gender.

You really think people are born with multiple personalities? Have you ever had any science classes? It's not like there's different spirits trapped in your head and those spirits are either male or female. Mind and body are one and the same.

Of course there are similarities between the sexes and some people have mental traits of the opposite sets. So what? Do we rip off gay people's genitals because they like to have sex with other men? No.

At best this is like getting breast implants. Some women feel like they are "trapped" inside the body of someone with smaller breasts. LOL. This is elective surgery that the public shouldn't have to pay for. And I don't give a shit that you do it in Britain.

 

[HAL9000]

You really think people are born with multiple personalities? Have you ever had any science classes? It's not like there's different spirits trapped in your head and those spirits are either male or female. Mind and body are one and the same.

Well yes I really think that, it is a diagnosable mental health disorder. On a side note "spirits"... no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

Of course there are similarities between the sexes and some people have mental traits of the opposite sets. So what? Do we rip off gay people's genitals because they like to have sex with other men? No.

Just because you want to have sex with men doesn't make you like a woman.

At best this is like getting breast implants. Some women feel like they are "trapped" inside the body of someone with smaller breasts. LOL. This is elective surgery that the public shouldn't have to pay for. And I don't give a shit that you do it in Britain.

I'm glad you don't care, it would mean nothing to me if you did care. Also I wouldn't equate breast implants to gender re-asignment surgery. One merely improves what you've got (assuming bigger is better) while the other transforms how you are perceived by society.

 

[Carmen813]

Female brain characteristics? So what. Many gay people act effeminate and obviously have female brain characteristics (e.g., wanting to have sex with men). Doesn't mean they're stuck in the wrong body. It's like people act like this is some body-switching episode of the x-files.

Willful ignorance does not make you correct.

 

[Infohawk]

Well yes I really think that, it is a diagnosable mental health disorder. On a side note "spirits"... no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

The issue wasn't whether it was a diagnosable mental health disorder was it? You acted like people were born that way.

 

[Infohawk]

Willful ignorance does not make you correct.

And a little popular science doesn't make you correct either. Here's some more basic science. Your body actually has an effect on your behavior. If you're a female estrogen is going to affect you and if you're male your testosterone is going to affect you're behavior. Mind and body are the same. They're not two separate boxes that can be mismatched.

And yeah doctors treat these issues with sex changes. They also used to perform lobotomies. People with common sense can see that this is just treating the symptoms of craziness.

Bottom line: You're not going to die if you're gender is left the way it is.

 

[HAL9000]

The issue wasn't whether it was a diagnosable mental health disorder was it? You acted like people were born that way.

I said "if a person can be born with (or develop)" People can be born with or develop this disorder... I don't understand your point does the basis for the disorder really matter?