Is Apple stagnant?

[Kaido]

I don't foresee much in the way of new hardware coming down the Apple pipeline. Maybe an iWatch, since the Pebble is pretty cool. The Apple Television thing doesn't really make sense since everyone already has a TV, and you can get a 4K TV for $1299 now. Let's see:

-iPhone for your pocket
-iPad for your couch
-Laptop for your kitchen
-Desktop for your table
-Time Machine for network + file server
-AppleTV for your television
-No more places to put stuff!

I don't want it to be true, but I think Apple's future is in refinement. I think they'll bring back the Mac Pro and start refocusing on the Pro market, now that they've hit 50 billion app downloads (no, really). I don't think they'll make any drastic interface changes like Microsoft did with Windows 8 (which I hear whined about endlessly as a PC fixit guy). I miss the days of getting excited about new Apple stuff!!

What do you guys think? Does Apple have some magic product up their sleeve? I think the next iPhone will just be an incremental improvement to the existing model. I played with a new Galaxy S4 the other day...meh. The larger screen was great, but that's about it. An iPhone Mini would be cool, but Apple will probably leave the flipphone market alone. I really don't want them to make the iPhone thinner, as the 5 is a bit too thin to comfortably hold at times already.

Short of holographic technology or a Google Glasses type of deal, I don't know what's next for Apple. Their OS is stable and the computers really rely on Intel for performance upgrades, so maybe a switch to ARM chips. They don't seem to have much interested in gaming aside from the mobile space, although Steam is getting geared up with their stuff. I'm betting the Pro market stuff will come back in play. Apple doesn't seem super interested in the corporate world either, leaving their own datacenters to be run by HP servers and BBM scrambling to keep their empire from crumbling.

So, just opening this up for discussion. I don't see a whole lot of new products coming down the line. I think iOS could be improved, but it's pretty good as-is imo - I don't have to fiddle with it to get it to work like I do with the Droids I support, it "just works", even though it's being perceived as stale. My phone is my appliance, and I use it way more than my computer these days. Anyway, discuss!

 

[Kneedragger]

I've been sort of thinking the same. There is a lot of talk about the OS for the iphones getting redesigned, but that's all talk right now.. Didn't someone I'm Apple mention last month they will be releasing a new product this fall in a new category?

 

[Tegeril]

I'm ready for apps on the AppleTV. I'm not even sure why it hasn't happened yet.

 

[dagamer34]

For the first time in 5 years, I'm probably not going to get the latest iPhone. Apple is doomed.

But seriously, smartphone hardware is quickly approaching "good enough" where you really don't need to replace it every 2 years, much like how PCs today can easily go 5 years whereas in the late 90s/early 2000s, progress and hardware requirements were always going up, up, up!

I mean compared to today, a 4K phone display vs. 1080p sound stupid, 13MP cameras are already more than enough, a high-end phone under 4.5" that isn't an iPhone is impossible to find, LTE hardware is capable of blazing fast speeds, and great battery life will always be a pipe dream.

The iPhone of 2016 will not have a significant hardware difference from the one in 2012. It's all software.

 

[gevorg]

The Apple Television thing doesn't really make sense since everyone already has a TV

Not really since the user-to-TV interface and remote controls in general are very primitive and need an overhaul. No manufacturer seems to put much R&D into that and just churns about decades old remote control tech.

 

[joshhedge]

Now that Ive in the helm for interface design, alongside the industrial design, I think there are still plenty of good things to come.

As long as Apple keep on making spectacular laptops, I'm content and will continue to buy from them.

 

[Kaido]

I've been sort of thinking the same. There is a lot of talk about the OS for the iphones getting redesigned, but that's all talk right now.. Didn't someone I'm Apple mention last month they will be releasing a new product this fall in a new category?

As far as the OS redesign goes, now that they've dumped the skeeomorph guy, Johnathan Ive can get to work on making it more Apple-esque.

It looks like Apple is doing a refresh of an existing product, my guess is the Mac Pro. I think the iMac is already assembled in the US, so the new one will be assembled in the US with a lot of parts sourced from the US. It could be the Mac Mini (to go the Intel NUC route - smaller, SSD-only), but I think Apple is going to start focusing on the Pro market again:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...will-be-refreshed-version-of-existing-product

 

[Kaido]

I'm ready for apps on the AppleTV. I'm not even sure why it hasn't happened yet.

Yeah. It seems silly. I was playing Angry Birds on my brother's Roku with the motion control and it was pretty cool, and it left me wondering why there's no Apple version of this.

I mean, look at the OUYA console - Apple could kill them in a heartbeat by taking mobile gaming apps, putting them on the AppleTV, and adding some kind of neat motion/button controller.

It's the same with sound - why hasn't Apple killed Sonos and gone the whole-house audio route? You can already hack it with Airfoil & Reemote to get that functionality. I'd really like Smarthouse/Home Automation technology to be in Apple's future too, sort of like INSTEON is doing now with their dual-band RF/powerline stuff.

 

[Kaido]

For the first time in 5 years, I'm probably not going to get the latest iPhone. Apple is doomed.

But seriously, smartphone hardware is quickly approaching "good enough" where you really don't need to replace it every 2 years, much like how PCs today can easily go 5 years whereas in the late 90s/early 2000s, progress and hardware requirements were always going up, up, up!

I mean compared to today, a 4K phone display vs. 1080p sound stupid, 13MP cameras are already more than enough, a high-end phone under 4.5" that isn't an iPhone is impossible to find, LTE hardware is capable of blazing fast speeds, and great battery life will always be a pipe dream.

The iPhone of 2016 will not have a significant hardware difference from the one in 2012. It's all software.

Yeah, that's the thing. I bought an iPhone 5 and quickly went back to the 4S. I like the smaller size in my hand better (not to mention the lack of purple flare on my 4S's camera). I'm pretty okay with all of the features it has now. And not to complain about first-world problems, but I do like the heft of the 4S & thicker grip vs. the thinner/lighter structure of the 5. I'd really rather have Apple not go the Razr phone route and make it so thin that it's hard to hold...in fact, I'd be okay with making it thicker if it meant the battery lasted longer!

And again, I'm pretty okay with how the OS is now. Sure, there are some tweaks I would like, which are available if you jailbreak (like Intelliscreen etc.), but it's so easy to use that I don't ever have to futz with it, so the "staleness" of the GUI isn't a huge issue for me because of the accessibility factor - slide-to-unlock, tap the app, done. No fiddling!

 

[PricklyPete]

I think they have a long way to go on fleshing out their software and general cloud Eco-system. I see there future innovations being soft and not hard. I agree that the hardware will more likely be refinement for a while.

 

[Kaido]

Not really since the user-to-TV interface and remote controls in general are very primitive and need an overhaul. No manufacturer seems to put much R&D into that and just churns about decades old remote control tech.

See, that's where the issue is. I helped my buddy's really old relative (in his 80's I think) setup his Comcast cable remote recently, he was completely clueless as to how to even turn it on. It literally had like 65 buttons! It was insane! And it gets even more complicated once you throw in a complex television, a surround-sound receiver, and a Blu-ray player. How is an older person supposed to figure that out, let alone anyone else non-technical?

I think Roku has the right idea - simple remote, simple interface. Netflix on Roku is great - it's just like walking around Blockbuster, just browse the titles and hit play. And it's getting even easier with the smart televisions that are out now, except that you get screwed once they quit updating your TV or the CPU gets too old to run the apps at an acceptable performance level. So I don't think a TV is the right answer, because who wants to update their whole TV every 2 years?

Logitech has a good answer to this issue with their Harmony line of remotes. Their new ones are even easier, with the option of using your iPhone or iPad as a remote control via a wireless RF blaster, and having either a simple "dumb" remote or a smart remote with programmable macros available. However, that's still not fixing the issue - the issue is that the interface is complex and the remote is just simplifying it, so you still have to program the remote, which is something older & non-technical folks are going to struggle with.

Plus, remotes are about ergonomics. imo the Tivo remote is absolutely the best remote ever - each button had it's own shape so you could find it by feel easily, the button layout wasn't moronic, and it had a nice grippable overall shape. I think touchscreen TV remotes are stupid. I tried using my iPhone as a remote and it's a pain because you have to slide-to-unlock it, then it lights up a dark room when you're watching a movie and your eyes have to adjust, then you have to look down, then find the button, assuming the remote is quick enough to pair instantly with the player (the Roku remote is nearly instant, but my WDTV Live Streaming box takes a few seconds to find the player). So now the movie has played past the part where you wanted to pause while you were fiddling with the phone (admittedly once you get the hang of it, it's pretty quick, but it's still an annoyance to me), instead of just pressing a rubber button on a physical remote & being done.

Youtube just announced that they are offering Live Streaming services to channels with over 1,000 subscribers, so maybe we'll start seeing IPTV become a reality:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/15/youtube-*****************now-available/

Live TV on a player with a simple interface like Roku would be killer, but your Internet connection would have to be really good, because I don't think people would stand for their TV not working perfectly. Right now I can sit there and flip through my cable channels with no delays or buffering, but there may be issues with an Internet connection and flipping like that. Netflix has worked pretty well over my cable Internet connection at home so far tho. But it's the same with house phones...you use to be able to use your corded phone when the power went out, because the RJ-11 phone line power never went out, but now they have little VOIP boxes with a battery in them, which imo is not as good.

Anyway, I don't know what the right answer is. I don't think a dedicated TV is the right answer though. I have a projector in my basement and a rear-projection DLP TV upstairs and there's no way I'm swapping out either of those until 4K content becomes readily available. And we only have basic cable now...we pretty much just use Netflix for everything, plus some Amazon Prime & Youtube and the occasional Redbox or Vudu movie rental if those don't have what we want to watch. Existing TV + Roku + Harmony remote is a pretty great combination, especially since you can tie in additional features like INSTEON and have your lights dim, drapes close, A/C come on, etc.

I think apps on the AppleTV would be a good solution, plus some sort of accelerometer-enable wireless gaming controller.

 

[Kaido]

Now that Ive in the helm for interface design, alongside the industrial design, I think there are still plenty of good things to come.

As long as Apple keep on making spectacular laptops, I'm content and will continue to buy from them.

Agreed. I think he does a fabulous job on his hardware. The new iMacs are incredible, and I still like the Macbook Air design more than any Ultrabook I've played with. And having a Retina screen on a laptop is pretty cool, so I'll be super excited when the Air's come with those as an option. That and a 15" Air with Retina :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

I think they have a long way to go on fleshing out their software and general cloud Eco-system. I see there future innovations being soft and not hard. I agree that the hardware will more likely be refinement for a while.

Yup. I'm sort of on the fence on my vision for their desktop future as well. The mix of nice interface & stable operation & Intel chips vs. the Mac App Store. On one hand, it's a computer and should be open. I like the App Store on the iPhone, but it bugs me on the computer, as the geek perspective. But for most consumers, being able to buy software digitally and then have it stored in the cloud for later re-installation is genius.

I sort of think Apple should switch to ARM for their desktops & laptops. And lock down access to the file system, like the iPhone. I was just over fixing a friend's computer who likes to tinker on the Windows side and thought they could do the same on the Mac side. Ended up with crazy OS & app problems. So locking down the computers further by making proprietary processors, restricting access to the computer system files, and limiting apps to the app store would be an extremely consumer-friendly way to go, no matter how much it offends my nerd sensibilities. I love my Hackintoshes, but I think the general population would appreciate the appliance approach, like the iPhone & iPad gives them.

 

[Oyeve]

I think tech in general is stagnant. Not just for apple.

 

[Joe1986]

iRobot


shit, I've said too much, the Apple security ninjas are at the door already

We'll see an iGlass and or an iWatch next, apps for Apple TV, (think gaming console/Apple TV) iPhablet, iHybrid tablet/laptop that may even run both iOS and OSX.

(and Apple did really hire a high profile robotics dude, he's prob working on a highly robotic plant for Apple stuff, but who knows, he might be working on a personal robot)

 

[Ice_Dragon]

Steve Jobs had people believing in the reality distortion field and that everything was amazing. Tim Cook doesn't do that so people think that Apple is dull, boring, etc.

To me, Apple or any computer company for that matter is only as good as what is on the inside as well as the outside.

I don't pay attention to anything "i" besides the iMac. I don't care if they make an iTV, iToaster, iMicrowave, whatever.

I care about how their software is going to work with the next line of what Intel, nVidia, and AMD have to offer.

 

[Kaido]

I think tech in general is stagnant. Not just for apple.

Actually...yeah. Netbooks were a cool new thing, until we actually used them and they were horrible

I really wouldn't want to get much larger or thinner on the smartphones...nobody really wants to stuff a 7" cell phone in their pocket, or have one that's so thin that it's hard to hold onto. I'm starting to see this issue with laptops, too - they're getting so thin that they're easy to bend, and the keyboard keys are so thin that it's losing the tactile feedback & is getting annoying to type on.

I'd like to say smarthomes are the next major step in tech, but if you think about what most people want, you can get away with just using a Lockitron for the front door & INSTEON for the lights. So unless you're crazy rich and want to have excessive fancy features (that are admittedly superfluous), I don't see a whole lot of development going on in that direction either.

Display technology-wise, I think we'll see some pretty cool things with the Leap motion capture device, and then maybe glass screens (transparent) & bendable OLED displays, hopefully followed by holographic technology, if that's even possible. But eh, having a nice large, non-transparent, easy-to-read screen is something that's already available. 4K consumer screens are probably next; Seiki is already selling a 50" 4K TV for under $1500 and Apple has the Retina desktop display, so we're nearly there. Resolution independence would be cool if there was a co-processor (like a multi-ARM-chip system, hint hint Apple) to handle it, so you could adjust font & button size without quality loss in realtime.

Yeah. I dunno. But somehow the industry keeps pulling cool stuff out of their sleeves!

 

[Kaido]

iRobot


I've said too much, the Apple security ninjas are at the door already

We'll see an iGlass and or an iWatch next, apps for Apple TV, (think gaming console/Apple TV) iPhablet, iHybrid tablet/laptop that may even run both iOS and OSX.

(and Apple did really hire a high profile robotics dude, he's prob working on a highly robotic plant for Apple stuff, but who knows, he might be working on a personal robot)

Hah, I already have an iRobot. Well, an iRobot Roomba. But still :biggrin: And wow, that's pretty wild, I missed that article on Apple hiring a robotics expert:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...uels-speculation-of-fantastic-future-products

WALL-E, here we come! :awe:

 

[Kaido]

Steve Jobs had people believing in the reality distortion field and that everything was amazing. Tim Cook doesn't do that so people think that Apple is dull, boring, etc.

To me, Apple or any computer company for that matter is only as good as what is on the inside as well as the outside.

I don't pay attention to anything "i" besides the iMac. I don't care if they make an iTV, iToaster, iMicrowave, whatever.

I care about how their software is going to work with the next line of what Intel, nVidia, and AMD have to offer.

I think it's partially the reality distortion field, and partially true. I had Windows Mobile devices, I setup Palm Treo's, Blackberries, dumbphones with some basic processing capabilities, etc. The iPhone was a huge, phenomenal leap forward. I think my last non-Apple phone was a Motorola Q...I laugh when I think back on my time with it (don't get me wrong, I loved that thing), but now all I do is download an app and I'm done, functionality required! So I think Apple's big gift to the world was accessibility/usability.

And I do think that Apple could use more showmanship. I'm a sucker for good marketing. I love getting pumped up for movies or trying something new from a picture off a menu at a restaurant. I like to get excited about things, especially new techie things, and you're right - Tim Cook is not a showman, so we're not seeing the same level of anticipation that we did with Steve. I think he could definitely bring it if he was willing to put a little effort into it. Even with WWDC, if he announced a new Mac Pro and apologized to Pro users for a lack of progress on the video editing front, and gifted them with new software & hardware gear, that would be pretty awesome.

Aside from that that...yeah, it's kind of stagnant. I've had the same desktop computer for years now, and I'm only just barely upgrading it to a new one because I wanted to setup a Steambox for gaming in my home theater, so my current Mac is getting recycled for that.

 

[zsdersw]

The post-Jobs Apple is nowhere nearly as innovative as it was when "Jesus" Jobs was around.

 

[Kadarin]

I think in part people feel this way because this year Apple has had something of a long product cycle where it hasn't introduced anything new since the iPhone 5 last fall.

 

[Kaido]

I think in part people feel this way because this year Apple has had something of a long product cycle where it hasn't introduced anything new since the iPhone 5 last fall.

Hah, yeah...pretty much every product in Apple's lineup is flagged in the yellow or red warning colors on the Mac Buyer Guide:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

 

[Subyman]

My first iPhone was the iPhone 4 and I still use it without any issues. I have no need to get a 4S or 5. I can tell the 4 is a little slow sometimes, but it doesn't bug me. I actually love the size of the 4 and the double glass unlike the 5.

I think we are rapidly reaching the point of "good enough" for phones even though ARM tech has a long way to go. I don't think phones need the power. They are always connected so compute/index heavy tasks like Siri can be off loaded. I am a very techie guy and even I am not concerned with upgrading my phone.

I do think Apple needs to "get-back-to-basics." Even though the iPad has wrecked the laptop and even desktop market, there is still a ton of marketshare out there for easy pickings. With Dell waffling and the others going Enterprise, Apple could easily step in with a mainstream laptop. I think they could make a very nice $600 laptop and still keep a high margin especially with iGPUs.

Apple also needs to satisfy the developers with professional equipment. The Mac Pro is a huge joke. What's crazy is that a surprising amount of app developers use hackintoshes, especially over seas. Its sad when an Apple developer can't use all Apple products to make apps. You can only do so much with a 5 year old Mac Pro and a consumer level iMac.

 

[Kaido]

My first iPhone was the iPhone 4 and I still use it without any issues. I have no need to get a 4S or 5. I can tell the 4 is a little slow sometimes, but it doesn't bug me. I actually love the size of the 4 and the double glass unlike the 5.

I think we are rapidly reaching the point of "good enough" for phones even though ARM tech has a long way to go. I don't think phones need the power. They are always connected so compute/index heavy tasks like Siri can be off loaded. I am a very techie guy and even I am not concerned with upgrading my phone.

I do think Apple needs to "get-back-to-basics." Even though the iPad has wrecked the laptop and even desktop market, there is still a ton of marketshare out there for easy pickings. With Dell waffling and the others going Enterprise, Apple could easily step in with a mainstream laptop. I think they could make a very nice $600 laptop and still keep a high margin especially with iGPUs.

Apple also needs to satisfy the developers with professional equipment. The Mac Pro is a huge joke. What's crazy is that a surprising amount of app developers use hackintoshes, especially over seas. Its sad when an Apple developer can't use all Apple products to make apps. You can only do so much with a 5 year old Mac Pro and a consumer level iMac.

Yeah. Although I will say, the jump in performance & camera is amazing from the 4 to 4S!

Speaking of good enough, it's the same in computers. Really, if you throw an SSD into anything made in the last 5 years, you're going to have great performance. We've definitely reached the "good enough" level (well, aside from battery life on mobile devices, haha). For Windows, I think usability is their next challenge, but as we've seen from the backlash with Windows 8, it's hard to interrupt an established userbase. And if you think the number of app developers who use Hackintoshes is amazing, you should see all of the Pro video Hackintosh users on film projects

I don't think Apple will ever really drop their prices. They're the computer equivalent of a Lexus...yeah it's just a Toyota underneath, but that's now how they market it, so you have to pay accordingly. But I bet if they were to drop the price like that, they would demolish the Windows laptop market.

I would really like to see native mouse support on the iPad. There are so many uses for it. In the professional world, I see a ton of people toting iPads around with stuff like Citrix for remote desktop access...a physical keyboard on those is nice, but the touchscreen thing is a pain in places where a mouse would make a lot more sense. I'd love to have a little iPod Touch remote desktop client...dock it on the side of a monitor with a wireless keyboard & mouse, add RDP/Citrix/whatever, voila. Perfect little work computer system!

 

[slackerinabox]

I think the entire industry is at an odd spot, with many product categories becoming commoditized with most of the tech being good enough and little differentiation between products. And the industry doesn't know quite what to do - attempt to be a game changer (like Win8/WinPhone) and you alienate your core, remain consistent and you're labeled boring. Or you can do like Samsung and throw a shit ton of useless gimmicks at a boner grabbing audience, but is throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks really innovation? I'm not sure what's the best approach, but genuine innovation isn't happening because I don't think it's quite necessary yet.

Actually, I think at least apple has just a hair of differentiation on their side, people do respect their superior service and customer experience (from consistent build quality to the unique retail experience with their Apple stores). I wouldn't call them doomed, but I think the next shift in mobile will revolved around A.R. or some other futuristic but possible in a generation or two application, we're just not there yet.

For TV - yeah, apple tv would fucking rule if they just enabled apps.. I respect apple's tendency to wait until they get something right (vs. what I feel is google and their partner's 'EVERYONE'S A BETA TESTER! YAY!' approach), but they are dragging their feet a bit on this. I believe it's more copyright related/licensing fees b.s. than apple holding up innovation. Because, once the apple tv gains apps, the cable companies are toast.