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Is anyone else watching the Lakers v. Suns game right now?
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SP33Demon
Lifer
Diaw was yelling for a TO, Tim Thomas had a rant after the game about it.
Agree, you have to body up on Kobe in that situation, especially since the refs are less likely to call a soft foul at the end of the game. He basically had an easy jumper, granted he still had to make the shot and did. Too many chances that the Suns squandered, bad call at the end or not.
Maybe there was a foul, but it was hard to tell and the ref did not have a good line of sight. More importantly, Nash ran himself into trouble there and his teammate should have called for timeout. I like Nash, but he messed up twice and both times it cost his team a win.
That said, this weekend's clipper and laker games reminded me of that thread where someone claimed 'melo was a great clutch player and kobe sucked at buzzer beaters.
That said, this weekend's clipper and laker games reminded me of that thread where someone claimed 'melo was a great clutch player and kobe sucked at buzzer beaters.
SP33Demon
Lifer
According to TThomas, Diaw was yelling for a TO as well and the refs wouldn't award either. It was a lucky turn of events for LA, the game could have went either way.
The Clippers embarrassed Denver, that was just painful to watch. Arenas was fun for Washington though (last night), he exploded.
meltdown75
Lifer
Kobe does it again! Just what his ego needed!! 😀
I wonder what Jack was saying to Steve Nash...
I wonder what Jack was saying to Steve Nash...
I'm not a blindly loyal Kobe fan, but really assess the players based on skill. As great as Nash, LeBron, etc. have played this season, I think Kobe really came through.
Good article
Good article
I didn't see Diaw calling for TO, if he did and did it properly, that's just ridiculous. On the other hand, he might have been calling it while nash was being tied up, not before. It must be hard to officiate in such a situation.
It was funny when nash almost won the jump ball because walton jumped early, but then he just put his arm up and won it standing on the floor.
It was funny when nash almost won the jump ball because walton jumped early, but then he just put his arm up and won it standing on the floor.
CellarDoor
Golden Member
One thing nobody has mentioned, or noticed I guess, was that when Luke Walton "tied up" Nash, he was technically out of bounds. one of his feet was clearly out of bounds. That, along with the obvious fouls, and the players yelling for a timeout, what were the refs thinking?
SP33Demon
Lifer
"Boris and Steve called timeout, but we did not get the call," Thomas said of the play leading to the jump ball. "It was the most difficult loss, by far, of my career."
Yeah I mean it's gotta be tough for the refs to hear with the noise and all, but 2 guys calling for a TO, I dunno. They should have a review like in the NFL for stuff like that. :shrug:
Yeah Nash almost won the j.ball, lol. Like that White Men Can't Jump movie.
Controversial calls are made all the time during the playoffs. Sometimes they are iffy and sometimes they are blatant. Only the one who fouled and the one who was fouled know the truth.
1. Steve Nash did NOT call a time out and even admitted that he didn't.
2. Luke Walton may had stepped out of bounds during some point of the scuffle but there is no conclusive evidence. Even if someone somehow got a screencap of Luke's hand on the ball at the same time his foot was out of bounds than, that may be a blown call.
3. A controversial call that many are ignoring is the one where Kobe was hit in his head at the end of game one. Tim Thomas even ADMITTED that he fouled Kobe. So officials aren't biased towards any team. They will miss calls or see plays a different way. Players need to deal and adapt to it especially at the end of games.
4. What I don't understand is why Nash trapped himself on the baseline not once but twice.
5. This year's playoffs has everything... he's something that I'm sure most people missed (even the refs): http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2428627
1. Steve Nash did NOT call a time out and even admitted that he didn't.
2. Luke Walton may had stepped out of bounds during some point of the scuffle but there is no conclusive evidence. Even if someone somehow got a screencap of Luke's hand on the ball at the same time his foot was out of bounds than, that may be a blown call.
3. A controversial call that many are ignoring is the one where Kobe was hit in his head at the end of game one. Tim Thomas even ADMITTED that he fouled Kobe. So officials aren't biased towards any team. They will miss calls or see plays a different way. Players need to deal and adapt to it especially at the end of games.
4. What I don't understand is why Nash trapped himself on the baseline not once but twice.
5. This year's playoffs has everything... he's something that I'm sure most people missed (even the refs): http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2428627
SP33Demon
Lifer
Where did Nash say he didn't call a timeout (proof please)? I'm not the world's best lip reader, but it definitely appeared he was yelling "timeout timeout!" since he couldn't make the motion with this hands since they were on the ball.
Didn't see or hear about Walton being OOB, maybe he was, who knows. Yeah Kobe getting hit in the head has nothing to do with two players calling for a TO, Nash may or may not have been fouled is beside the point (aside from Odom shoving him 2 body lengths from behind in the trap).
Nash didn't trap himself on the baseline the first time, he was triple teamed and PHO should have called a TO vice inbounding, that was stupid on their part to even inbound in heavy traffic. The 2nd time he was clearly expecting the foul to come so he stopped instead of splitting the double team, which he should have done to initiate the imminent foul.
Yup that guy reaching up someone's shorts to yank their testes is despicable and I would question your manhood if you did something like that.
SP33Demon
Lifer
Simmons is clearly biased in that he can't distinguish between best player and most valuable. When he says "In a giant pickup game with every NBA player waiting to play, and two fans forced to pick sides with their lives depending on the outcome of the game (I think this is how the annual Rucker League tournament works), who would be the first player picked based on the way everyone played that season?" he is clearly asking who the best player is, not the most valuable to their team (for the record I would pick Shaq). For example, why wouldn't anyone pick someone from the Pistons? They're one of the best team in the league, right?
There is clearly a difference between someone who helps their team reach a certain excellence (wins) and/or improve the most, as well as display individual ability (i.e. best passer and shooter). Kobe did nothing but chuck up the most shots per game (beating #2 Iverson by 300 shots even) which equates to the most ppg, hell his teammates only reached double figures 3 times in 82 games. He's not even the best shooter in the league (Nash), best rebounder, nor best passer (Nash). He is the best scorer in that he takes more shots than anyone, and he has creative ability to score.
Text
Nash post-game comments paraphrased
Guess some people in this thread think they know more about what happened in yesterday's game--and the sport in general--than Steve Nash himself does. He took responsibility for his mistakes and the team's loss like a man. There were no excuses. Some fanboys/haters oughta learn from the humbled canuck. :thumbsup:
...damn, I'm still giddy. 😛
BTW, where were all the ref-bashers here when LeBron took six plodding steps FTCavW a few days ago?
i respectfully disagree with your criteria for mvp. an mvp does not have to make his teammates better. an mvp has to help his team win, that's it, regardless of whether he does it through remarkable defense, passing, or scoring. if a guy chucks up 50 shots a game and helps his team win, you cant hold that against him and say 'well, his teammates didn't score'. someone has to shoot those shots, why not have it be your best player?
SP33Demon
Lifer
If Nash admitted it, fine, however linking a message board forum isn't really proof (I could create a thread saying Odom admitted during the press conf he fouled Nash, as an example).
In the end it still doesn't change anything whether a TO was called by Diaw, Walton was OOB, or Nash was fouled. In the end Nash is still the MVP, the Clips will mash either of these teams even if PHO comes back to win the series, LA may be able to win 50 games next year now that it's not the Kobe chucking show, and life for Phoenix will be better next season when Amare devastates the league again. It's all cheap entertainment until Detroit vs XYZ in the finals.
SP33Demon
Lifer
I definitely agree when you say: "why not have it be your best player", but when someone is taking more shots than anyone in the league and the team is not winning 50 games, something is wrong IMO. Many great scorers got their team to 50 wins or more w/out taking that many shots (Dirk, Lebron, Wade). And now that we can really see how much better LA's chances to win w/out chucking, it's clear that Kobe (and/or Phil) should have gotten his teammates involved a long time ago.
But honestly, do you think this is the first time Phil just all of a sudden said, "Kobe, please try to pass the ball a little more so your teammates can help you win"? Hell no, Phil wrote a book about how Kobe was uncoachable. Maybe after losing (respectfully by distributing the ball and chucking less) in Game 1, something in Kobe's head clicked. Hey, maybe I shouldn't be taking 40 shots a game when our big men are good and just underused. It's great that he realizes this now (i.e. he said the team "changed overnight after Game 2 which translates to "I changed overnight"), but if he had during the regular season and LA was more successful (like they are now), then maybe he would be the MVP.
I disagree with all of the above. Kobe's team was structured in a way that made him the primary focus of the team. The same is true of Allen Iverson. Both take so many shots because that is the way the team is built. They build up trust in and from teammates throughout the season, and carry the heavy load of an 82 game season on their backs. It's not easy to micro manage a team against opposition when your opponent changes so often. Stars are expected to carry the heavy load during the regular season, because most players simply cannot devote the kind of energy that is required to perform at a high level for 82 games.
Both AI and Kobe play differently in the playoffs because their teams are more motivated and play at a higher level.
Kobe did not have any sort of epiphany. He has played the same basic way in all 4 games. In fact, I remember distinctly how the commentators were admiring the game plan and kobe's pass-first mentality to get his teammates fired up in game 1.
Azndude2190
Golden Member
Your arguement is so amusing.Who cares if Nash outplayed Kobe in every game.The Lakers are still up 3-1.Kobe's individual play during the regular season far surpasses anything Nash did.(Um nothing besides averaging around the same stats as last year).Dont use officiating or the fact that we got "lucky"to use it against Kobe.
Azndude2190
Golden Member
Yeah it was a thriller.
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