Is Anyone else excited about RV740 (HD4750 and HD4770)

[cbn]

Is anyone else excited about the release of the RV740 ATI GPUs?

Is it just me or do these seem more likely to give us a glimpse of the future than HD4890? (Sure the shaders are improved but it is still 55nm)

I am particularly curious to see how well the HD4770 Overvclocks compared to the HD4830? Supposedly this GPU is actually faster than the HD4830 so why they didn't at least name it HD4840 is somewhat confusing.

If these 40nm chips can get some good clocks it might be they have better performance than even HD4850 (despite 680 stream processors vs 800 for the HD4850)

 

[AzN]

Not really. these are nothing more than replacements for 4830.

Glimpse of the 4890? No. It's 4890 nothing more than overclocked 4870? Anyways RV740 is nothing more than reworked 4830 to cut manufacturing costs.

 

[BladeVenom]

It might be a replacement for the 4830, but it is a brand new GPU.

The 4890 is a little more than just an overclock. There were also small improvements made to the GPU.

 

[cbn]

Originally posted by: Azn
Not really. these are nothing more than replacements for 4830.

Glimpse of the 4890? No. It's 4890 nothing more than overclocked 4870? Anyways RV740 is nothing more than reworked 4830 to cut manufacturing costs.

RV740 is more than a 40nm shrink.

The memory interface is changed to 128 bit but uses DDR5 (instead of DDR3 on the HD4830)

The main question in my mind is how much overclocking headroom will it have? Those 40nm chips might have better potential for frequency increases than the current 55nm GPUs.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
It might be a replacement for the 4830, but it is a brand new GPU.

I don't consider RV740 a different chip. Gddr5 with 128bit bus 16rop 32tmu. In the end same shit with a different label. It's almost as bad as Nvidia releasing 9800gtx as GTS250. But not quite.

4830 overclocks great. Probably lot more head room than RV740 because it's downclocked version of rv770.

The 4890 is a little more than just an overclock. There were also small improvements made to the GPU.

Like what?

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Just learning
The main question in my mind is how much overclocking headroom will it have? Those 40nm chips might have better potential for frequency increases than the current 55nm GPUs.

Apparently TSMCs 40nm isn't that great and even power consumption is about the same as 55nm...it's just cheaper to make. That was the last I heard about 40nm...maybe things have changed.

 

[ronnn]

Cheaper to make ain't a bad thing.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
It might be a replacement for the 4830, but it is a brand new GPU.

I don't consider RV740 a different chip. Gddr5 with 128bit bus 16rop 32tmu. In the end same shit with a different label. It's almost as bad as Nvidia releasing 9800gtx as GTS250. But not quite.

4830 overclocks great. Probably lot more head room than RV740 because it's downclocked version of rv770.

The 4890 is a little more than just an overclock. There were also small improvements made to the GPU.

Like what?

how is this almost as bad?

by your logic.. basically every chip ATI makes is the same chip.

the radeon 38x0 uses the exact same shaders and HD backend as the 4000 series, the main difference being the 4000s are just bigger and have better hdmi audio. they even 55nm. it also has 320 shaders... so does that mean the 3850 / 4600 and 4700 are all the same?

i mean the 38x0 supported gddr3 and 4. the 46x0 is 55nm with 128bit bus with gddr3/4. the 47x0 is 40nm with 128bit bus and gddr5 support which the 46x0 didnt support.

i mean is a core 2 duo the same thing as a pentium M also? I mean its just like 2 pentium Ms with a shared cache righ?!?!

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: hans007
how is this almost as bad?

by your logic.. basically every chip ATI makes is the same chip.

the radeon 38x0 uses the exact same shaders and HD backend as the 4000 series, the main difference being the 4000s are just bigger and have better hdmi audio. they even 55nm. it also has 320 shaders... so does that mean the 3850 / 4600 and 4700 are all the same?

i mean the 38x0 supported gddr3 and 4. the 46x0 is 55nm with 128bit bus with gddr3/4. the 47x0 is 40nm with 128bit bus and gddr5 support which the 46x0 didnt support.

i mean is a core 2 duo the same thing as a pentium M also? I mean its just like 2 pentium Ms with a shared cache righ?!?!

Did I say it was bad? I'm just not excited about Rv740 when 4830 is already here and now for same price.

By my logic...basically nothing done to the architecture it's not really a new chip. A die shrink and different memory interface is not what you call something new. A rehash of the same.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
It might be a replacement for the 4830, but it is a brand new GPU.

I don't consider RV740 a different chip. Gddr5 with 128bit bus 16rop 32tmu. In the end same shit with a different label. It's almost as bad as Nvidia releasing 9800gtx as GTS250. But not quite.

4830 overclocks great. Probably lot more head room than RV740 because it's downclocked version of rv770.

The 4890 is a little more than just an overclock. There were also small improvements made to the GPU.

Like what?

"same shit with a different label"?

Not at all. Nothing except the 4870 had GDDR5. This is a new card. The GTS 250 is only a smaller die with minor clockspeed changes from the old 8800.

These ATI cards have smaller dies, different memory standard and different clock speeds. Not to mention GDDR5 @ 128-bit. Quite a unique combination there. This is not a rehash or sticking a new label on a chip. This is different.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
It might be a replacement for the 4830, but it is a brand new GPU.

I don't consider RV740 a different chip. Gddr5 with 128bit bus 16rop 32tmu. In the end same shit with a different label. It's almost as bad as Nvidia releasing 9800gtx as GTS250. But not quite.

4830 overclocks great. Probably lot more head room than RV740 because it's downclocked version of rv770.

Except that it is a physically different chip. The situation here is actually more analogous to the G80 -> G92 than it is to G92a 65nm -> G92b 55nm.

The RV740 is setup as 5x128=640 whereas the the the 4830 uses a cut down RV770 setup as 4x160=640 (as opposed to the full 5x160=800)

By my logic...basically nothing done to the architecture it's not really a new chip. A die shrink and different memory interface is not what you call something new. A rehash of the same.

As I have expressed before, it isn't simply a die shrink, they engineered an entirely new mid range chip (even if it is heavily based off of preexisting tech) to maximize the benefits for everyone involved. While you might know about the 4830 and have access to it, that product isn't exactly saturating the retail channels - using a high end chip to produce a mid range part will do that, as they're most likely doing it to recycle chips that didn't pass with all the shaders, and possibly even cutting down ones that could if only to fill out the line.

The reason I'm excited about the RV740 is that while the 4830 is a great bargain for the few consumers its small reach can extend to, the RV740 is just as good and is also better for AMD as they will be able to reach more consumers and make more money off of each unit sold.

 

[DaveSimmons]

No, because I own a 4870. A 512MB like mine is around $150 now, so it's cheap enough for any gaming computer. Even some 1 GB models are under $200.

To me, good low-power $50 cards are interesting for a HTPC, and midrange cards like the 4870 are interesting for gaming. $100 high-low-end cards are not.

$100 cards are for someone who wants to put a low-end gaming card into a pre-built with a bad PSU.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
No, because I own a 4870. A 512MB like mine is around $150 now, so it's cheap enough for any gaming computer. Even some 1 GB models are under $200.

To me, good low-power $50 cards are interesting for a HTPC, and midrange cards like the 4870 are interesting for gaming. $100 high-low-end cards are not.

$100 cards are for someone who wants to put a low-end gaming card into a pre-built with a bad PSU.

These statements were true a year ago. Today its a completely different story. $100 can buy you a GTS 250. A $400 GPU just a couple years ago.

There have been deals of the 4830 going as low as $63. Looking at current retail prices, The 4830 goes for $74.99. The 4870 512mb goes for $154.99. The 4870 is over twice the prics yet only offers 15-30% better performance. Talk about extremely diminishing returns. And these 4830's overclock quite nicely. Around the 20-30% range. So really, they are not much different at all. I had enough money for a 4870 1GB when i went video card shopping to replace my 3850, but i did my homework and realized that it's definitely not worth the high end price tag.

These aren't Geforce 5200's and Radeon 9550's were dealing with, they are radeon 4670's and Geforce 9600GT's. They perform as fast as their previous generation's high-end card.

 

[Cookie Monster]

With a die size of 138mm^2, power consumption figures of ~80W, and ~90% performance of a HD4850, life is going to be tough for the competition.

 

[Soulkeeper]

This is the upgrade i'm eyeing for my bday 🙂

I'm all for low power consumption and good price/performance

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: hans007

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
It might be a replacement for the 4830, but it is a brand new GPU.

I don't consider RV740 a different chip. Gddr5 with 128bit bus 16rop 32tmu. In the end same shit with a different label. It's almost as bad as Nvidia releasing 9800gtx as GTS250. But not quite.

4830 overclocks great. Probably lot more head room than RV740 because it's downclocked version of rv770.

The 4890 is a little more than just an overclock. There were also small improvements made to the GPU.

Like what?

how is this almost as bad?

by your logic.. basically every chip ATI makes is the same chip.

the radeon 38x0 uses the exact same shaders and HD backend as the 4000 series, the main difference being the 4000s are just bigger and have better hdmi audio. they even 55nm. it also has 320 shaders... so does that mean the 3850 / 4600 and 4700 are all the same?

i mean the 38x0 supported gddr3 and 4. the 46x0 is 55nm with 128bit bus with gddr3/4. the 47x0 is 40nm with 128bit bus and gddr5 support which the 46x0 didnt support.

i mean is a core 2 duo the same thing as a pentium M also? I mean its just like 2 pentium Ms with a shared cache righ?!?!

4xx0 handles AA a LOT better than 38x0, however, so they actual made some functional changes going from 3 to 4 series.

 

[cbn]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: Just learning
The main question in my mind is how much overclocking headroom will it have? Those 40nm chips might have better potential for frequency increases than the current 55nm GPUs.

Apparently TSMCs 40nm isn't that great and even power consumption is about the same as 55nm...it's just cheaper to make. That was the last I heard about 40nm...maybe things have changed.

It uses the same power even though it is 40nm?

I am hoping the OC potential is better. Based on 4850 I am thinking 128bit/DDR5 won't be a bottleneck for 640 stream processors.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx

These statements were true a year ago. Today its a completely different story. $100 can buy you a GTS 250. A $400 GPU just a couple years ago.

2 year old graphic cards should struggle with new games. The lack of anything not a console port is really what is killing the industry.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: BladeVenom
It might be a replacement for the 4830, but it is a brand new GPU.

I don't consider RV740 a different chip. Gddr5 with 128bit bus 16rop 32tmu. In the end same shit with a different label. It's almost as bad as Nvidia releasing 9800gtx as GTS250. But not quite.

4830 overclocks great. Probably lot more head room than RV740 because it's downclocked version of rv770.

Except that it is a physically different chip. The situation here is actually more analogous to the G80 -> G92 than it is to G92a 65nm -> G92b 55nm.

The RV740 is setup as 5x128=640 whereas the the the 4830 uses a cut down RV770 setup as 4x160=640 (as opposed to the full 5x160=800)

g80 and g92 isn't a different chip? g92 has tweaked architecture over g80 while rv740 doesn't do anything except to cut cost.

RV740 5x128? Your source? Doesn't make much sense when RV740 has 32TMU.

 

[cbn]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx

These statements were true a year ago. Today its a completely different story. $100 can buy you a GTS 250. A $400 GPU just a couple years ago.

2 year old graphic cards should struggle with new games. The lack of anything not a console port is really what is killing the industry.

Doesn't xbox 360 only have something like a ATI X700 GPU in it? While a X700 may be fine for running games at 720p it wouldn't be sufficient for higher PC resolutions.

But what happens if games don't advance beyond the point of "console port"? Then we would likely have future budget $50 cards able to handle "console ports" right?

 

[extra]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
No, because I own a 4870. A 512MB like mine is around $150 now, so it's cheap enough for any gaming computer. Even some 1 GB models are under $200.

To me, good low-power $50 cards are interesting for a HTPC, and midrange cards like the 4870 are interesting for gaming. $100 high-low-end cards are not.

$100 cards are for someone who wants to put a low-end gaming card into a pre-built with a bad PSU.

These statements were true a year ago. Today its a completely different story. $100 can buy you a GTS 250. A $400 GPU just a couple years ago.

There have been deals of the 4830 going as low as $63. Looking at current retail prices, The 4830 goes for $74.99. The 4870 512mb goes for $154.99. The 4870 is over twice the prics yet only offers 15-30% better performance. Talk about extremely diminishing returns. And these 4830's overclock quite nicely. Around the 20-30% range. So really, they are not much different at all. I had enough money for a 4870 1GB when i went video card shopping to replace my 3850, but i did my homework and realized that it's definitely not worth the high end price tag.

These aren't Geforce 5200's and Radeon 9550's were dealing with, they are radeon 4670's and Geforce 9600GT's. They perform as fast as their previous generation's high-end card.

<3 I love my good ol' 9600gt. $59 dollah for the win. And my wife's $59 4670. These are good times...good times... 🙂 I usually get more excited about new mid range and low end parts than high end lol.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx

These statements were true a year ago. Today its a completely different story. $100 can buy you a GTS 250. A $400 GPU just a couple years ago.

2 year old graphic cards should struggle with new games. The lack of anything not a console port is really what is killing the industry.

Six months ago it was in the higher end. The GTS 250 does NOT struggle with new games at all. 1680x and below and you'll probably be CPU limited anyway.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Azn
g80 and g92 isn't a different chip? g92 has tweaked architecture over g80 while rv740 doesn't do anything except to cut cost.

So cutting costs involves wasting transistors like with the 4830?

RV740 5x128? Your source? Doesn't make much sense when RV740 has 32TMU.

Why doesn't it make sense, do you not realize that the 4600s also have 32TMUs?

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: Just learning

Doesn't xbox 360 only have something like a ATI X700 GPU in it? While a X700 may be fine for running games at 720p it wouldn't be sufficient for higher PC resolutions.

But what happens if games don't advance beyond the point of "console port"? Then we would likely have future budget $50 cards able to handle "console ports" right?

The Xbox 360 card is like an unified X1900XT card, having 48 unified stream processors, beyond DX9 spec but behind the DX10.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: Azn
g80 and g92 isn't a different chip? g92 has tweaked architecture over g80 while rv740 doesn't do anything except to cut cost.

So cutting costs involves wasting transistors like with the 4830?

I don't know what you are trying to get at.

RV740 5x128? Your source? Doesn't make much sense when RV740 has 32TMU.

Why doesn't it make sense, do you not realize that the 4600s also have 32TMUs?

Would you mind posting source or are you just making shit up?

4670 has 32 tmu and? 5x128SP is odd number for 32tmu. No? So it would be like 6.4 TMU for every cluster. :laugh:

While 4670 makes sense. 4x 80SP with 8TMU = 32TMU :light: