is an ivy league school/top 20 school worth it?

[Semidevil]

This is not me, but this is just something that came to my mind. I know all are different based on current circumstances, but I just want your general opinion.

So lets say you have the opportunity to go to one of the best schools in the country(harvard, stanford, yale, whatever). If it means you quitting your current job, and going to school full time and also taking on student loans, is the networking, education quality worth it?

So suppose you go to one of these top schools, most likely, your school loans will be in $100,000+. Assuming you graduate from these schools. Most likely, you will land a fairly good job. Now it wont be $500,000 jobs, but it will be decent. I read online that an MBA from harvard averages around $100,000/year.

So suppose you have student loans for $100,000, and find a job making $100,000(or a bit more).

Is it worth it?

Would you rather go to a mediocre university, land a decent job, or is the brand of an ivy league school really worth every penny?

I'm just curious on your thoughts on this

 

[jagec]

Depends. If you know your stuff and work hard you can do well at pretty much any school. (For the sake of networking, small, unknown private schools are probably a bad idea, though).

If you plan on half-assing it, you might need the Ivy League name and connections to get a decent job.

If you are dumb but your family has a big name you should go to an Ivy League school just because if you don't, they'll probably kidnap you and give you a degree anyway.

 

[sjwaste]

Keep in mind that the outgoing salaries are high, but most of the people going in also have high salaries beforehand. Really depends on your career level going in. If you're mid to upper mgmt now, you're probably looking to graduate with an exec job. If you're 3 years out of undergrad, a middle rung at a consulting firm is likely your spot.

Look at the total opportunity cost -- foregone salary, tuition, living expenses, and expected income upon graduation.

If you can graduate at the top of your class, yes, its still probably worth it. The network will be valuable, and you'll probably have offers from top firms, paying top salaries. Many of those careers will be consulting, though, so make sure you're ready for those kinds of hours coming out.

This is all based on MBA. For law school, the same applies. A school like Yale basically opens up a federal clerkship for any student that wants one, possibly even the bottom third of the graduating class.

Undergrad? Not sure. Really depends on the program and what you want to do coming out. Just look at what firms recruit which schools, and go to a school that has a record of getting hired at the firm you want to work for.

Full disclosure: I'm the product of a state undergrad business program, graduating from a 2nd tier law school this year, and working in management consulting now with a pretty solid firm. I'd say I've been able to broadly observe who goes where and with what degrees, but don't have a pedigree school on my own resume. It hasn't held me back, but I've had to start lower and prove myself. From an Ivy, you might start higher, but you still have to prove yourself. At my firm, the difference in salary for someone at my level vs an ivy grad who would probably come into the firm at the same level, is not worth the opportunity cost. There are, however, firms that pay more than mine and I'm not sure what the salary spread is there.

If I could do it all again, I'd probably only make one change, and that being to go to a respected in-state public law school to reduce the cost.

 

[Mo0o]

The answre depends on where the poster went.

I think it's worth it. Top banking jobs hire almost only from the top schools. Graduate schools favor prestige schools and programs over no name schools. It all matters. I've had an admissions guy at my current med school tell me my GPA at Duke was worth a lot more than comparatively higher GPAs at lesser schools. Ive also heard that in residency applications, med school prestige also matter since the level of competition among the student bodies varies greatly depending on the quality of the school.

 

[LS21]

i dont like law, politics, finance, or mingling with connected WASP yuppies who are interested in those fields.

so no, ill take my public education and be a science/engineer grunt

 

[Strk]

It depends entirely on what you're going for. Ivy League schools are kind of a waste for an engineer, except Cornell, but even then, the cost is pretty high.

Law, MBA or med school would be a bit different though.

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: LS21
i dont like law, politics, finance, or mingling with connected WASP yuppies who are interested in those fields.

so no, ill take my public education and be a science/engineer grunt

Hey now, don't group us all together.

Ah hell, it's a good generalization. I probably don't fit in with most of my classmates, actually. Not a ton of lawyer types who also happen to be geeks. But some geeks make great lawyers. I have a classmate who has a PhD in Chemistry and spent a lot of time in the industry inventing some pretty cool stuff. Some patent firm will eventually pay him a ton, if they don't already.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: Strk
It depends entirely on what you're going for. Ivy League schools are kind of a waste for an engineer, except Cornell, but even then, the cost is pretty high.

Law, MBA or med school would be a bit different though.

Dont know much about engineering but how about Cal Tech, MIT or Carnegie Mellon? WOuld you say they're worth it or are strong state engineering programs good enough?

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
The answre depends on where the poster went.

I think it's worth it. Top banking jobs hire almost only from the top schools. Graduate schools favor prestige schools and programs over no name schools. It all matters. I've had an admissions guy at my current med school tell me my GPA at Duke was worth a lot more than comparatively higher GPAs at lesser schools. Ive also heard that in residency applications, med school prestige also matter since the level of competition among the student bodies varies greatly depending on the quality of the school.

I've always wondered, would I ever have a shot at getting into med school coming out of my work field, an undergrad GPA right around a 3, but a better law GPA? Wonder what kind of MCAT score it would take.

 

[Imdmn04]

Yes, the connections you will make alone is worth it.

Think of all of George Bush's frat brothers, they are all set.

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: Mo0o
The answre depends on where the poster went.

I think it's worth it. Top banking jobs hire almost only from the top schools. Graduate schools favor prestige schools and programs over no name schools. It all matters. I've had an admissions guy at my current med school tell me my GPA at Duke was worth a lot more than comparatively higher GPAs at lesser schools. Ive also heard that in residency applications, med school prestige also matter since the level of competition among the student bodies varies greatly depending on the quality of the school.

I've always wondered, would I ever have a shot at getting into med school coming out of my work field, an undergrad GPA right around a 3, but a better law GPA? Wonder what kind of MCAT score it would take.

Unless you already have all the prereqs, you would have to go back and take the requirements anyways. So that GPA is worth a lot more and gives you a chance to prove you're more than the 3.0 during undergrad. Your law background makes you a very itneresting applicant, which really helps. I would say a 34 (maybe 85-90%-tile) makes you a lock for at least a middle tier school assuming your postbacc courses go well (3.7+ GPA)

It's never too late to start med school if that's your passion, there a ton of people in my class who are in their late 20s to 30s

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Unless you already have all the prereqs, you would have to go back and take the requirements anyways. So that GPA is worth a lot more. Your law background makes you a very itneresting applicant, which really helps. I would say a 34 (maybe 85-90%-tile) makes you a lock for at least a middle tier school assuming your postbacc courses go well (3.7+ GPA)

It's never too late to start med school if that's your passion, there a ton of people in my class who are in their late 20s to 30s

How long is an MCAT score good for? I'm thinking about studying up and taking it, and then finishing my prereqs later if I do well.

I took 8 hrs of intro bio (zoo and botany plus labs), 8 hrs of gen chem with labs, 13 hrs of math (if you count about 6 hrs of advanced econometrics) in undergrad. Would need two semesters of physics plus o-chem and labs to finish up.

Definitely my passion, really always has been, but it's only now that I've developed enough of a work ethic that I think I could do well in med school and be a good physician. It cheats the system entirely if a lazy person goes in, so I decided to wait until I was motivated. The thing that kicked me in the ass was working 50 hrs a week in consulting plus going to law school for 11 credits a semester. Too bad it took me until 27 to get there, but I'm finally to the point where I don't slack off and rely on ability to skate through things.

However, the astronomical cost is a factor. I have law school debt. If I went to med school, I'd seriously have to consider staying a part time student until the day I die, thereby discharging my student loans 🙂

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Unless you already have all the prereqs, you would have to go back and take the requirements anyways. So that GPA is worth a lot more. Your law background makes you a very itneresting applicant, which really helps. I would say a 34 (maybe 85-90%-tile) makes you a lock for at least a middle tier school assuming your postbacc courses go well (3.7+ GPA)

It's never too late to start med school if that's your passion, there a ton of people in my class who are in their late 20s to 30s

How long is an MCAT score good for? I'm thinking about studying up and taking it, and then finishing my prereqs later if I do well.

I took 8 hrs of intro bio (zoo and botany plus labs), 8 hrs of gen chem with labs, 13 hrs of math (if you count about 6 hrs of advanced econometrics) in undergrad. Would need two semesters of physics plus o-chem and labs to finish up.

Definitely my passion, really always has been, but it's only now that I've developed enough of a work ethic that I think I could do well in med school and be a good physician. It cheats the system entirely if a lazy person goes in, so I decided to wait until I was motivated. The thing that kicked me in the ass was working 50 hrs a week in consulting plus going to law school for 11 credits a semester. Too bad it took me until 27 to get there, but I'm finally to the point where I don't slack off and rely on ability to skate through things.

However, the astronomical cost is a factor. I have law school debt. If I went to med school, I'd seriously have to consider staying a part time student until the day I die, thereby discharging my student loans 🙂

Hmm yeah physician pay is going down so that's everyone's concern. Seems like you'd be a really strong candidate for med school given your past experience.

As far as MCAT scores, they last from 3-5 years depending on the school.

 

[Zebo]

Yes monetary gains have been covered so i won't even start. But you have endowments and facilities that make other universities look like trailered votecs. Then you have the best minds in the world teaching you combined with smaller class size. Personally I would would have loved to be able to go there instead of 150+ general chemistry classes I went to with non-English speaking post docs teaching me.

 

[Zolty]

I am going to what amounts to the best school in my field and thus far I believe the connections I have made in only one semester justify the cost (about 200k after 4 years).

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: Strk
It depends entirely on what you're going for. Ivy League schools are kind of a waste for an engineer, except Cornell, but even then, the cost is pretty high.

Law, MBA or med school would be a bit different though.

Dont know much about engineering but how about Cal Tech, MIT or Carnegie Mellon? WOuld you say they're worth it or are strong state engineering programs good enough?

What do you mean by "good enough"?

I have a friend who went to MIT, and she certainly has gotten a lot of opportunities that she otherwise would not have had just by playing the MIT card, and leaning on her contacts. However, if you just want to get a BS and work in industry, doing well at a state school is more than good enough.

 

[kranky]

I saw a magazine article last month that ranked a number of schools based on "payback" - how long it took after graduation to earn back the cost of a 4-year degree. The first 18 schools on the list were public schools. Of course, it's based on averages and YMMV.

Personally, with the economy the way it is, I would be very hesitant to go into massive debt for a degree. Going to a top school for "connections" is iffy. They may or may not be useful and I sure wouldn't spend an extra $50K hoping that connections will help me out. But it depends on the field - there are too many lawyers and too many MBAs out there now, and if there are no jobs then connections aren't going to do you any good. On the other hand, if I wanted to go into filmmaking, then I would get into UCLA or NYU if it killed me, since that business is more about connections than it is about skill.

Be a top student and you don't need connections. Frankly, there are so few people out there who really apply themselves, you'll stand out.

 

[TridenT]

I would go, ASAP. Definitely would give me an incentive to work my ass off... Payin' 50K a year for school 😛

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Depends on a few factors.

First is your degree field. For lawyers, doctors, and theoretical math/science I would say it has a much higher chance of being "worth it". For engineers, scientists (not-theoretical), teachers, and more of the application type jobs then the chance it is "worth it" will be lower. Business degrees will vary between the two. On the one hand you gain more influencial connections in an Ivy League school, but do you really learn much more practical knowledge that will gain income from one of those schools? My guess would be not really.

Second, is future earning potential difference between a public school, and an Ivy League school. For example earning $100k in NYC at a law firm is much different than earning $70k in a smaller town suburbs. You need to look at where you want to work (big city, suburban, etc), and figure out CoL expenses for big city, suburban, etc. Obviously you want to earn more money, but look at your expenses as well. Rent for an apartment in a big city can easily run $2k/mo, but a mortgage on a modest house (1700-2000 sq ft) will be lower then *generally* in a suburban neighborhood.

There are lots of factors to look at, but I think the biggie is your degree path.

 

[kranky]

Some of the statistics from the article I mentioned above (it's in Smart Money magazine, Jan 09 issue). Everyone thinks they are going to be making six figures if they go to an elite school, right?

Median salaries of graduates at 3 years after graduation:
Yale - $59,100
Harvard - $63,400
Cornell - $60,300
Brown - $56,200
Vassar - $46,000
UC Davis - $52,300
Dartmouth - $58,000

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: kranky
Some of the statistics from the article I mentioned above (it's in Smart Money magazine, Jan 09 issue). Everyone thinks they are going to be making six figures if they go to an elite school, right?

Median salaries of graduates at 3 years after graduation:
Yale - $59,100
Harvard - $63,400
Cornell - $60,300
Brown - $56,200
Vassar - $46,000
UC Davis - $52,300
Dartmouth - $58,000

they are referring to MBAs/Law

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: kranky
Some of the statistics from the article I mentioned above (it's in Smart Money magazine, Jan 09 issue). Everyone thinks they are going to be making six figures if they go to an elite school, right?

Median salaries of graduates at 3 years after graduation:
Yale - $59,100
Harvard - $63,400
Cornell - $60,300
Brown - $56,200
Vassar - $46,000
UC Davis - $52,300
Dartmouth - $58,000

they are referring to MBAs/Law

Cornell!

 

[sao123]

prestige means nothing anymore... go to a good university with a good football program, graduate and get your standard 5 digit salary.

dont join the embarrassment of being the eighth person to graduate harvard but your main source of income is "would you like fries with that?".
save money... you could go to triangle tech to learn how to say, "regular or synthetic?", or "regular premium or super?"

 

[sniperruff]

For MBA? Definitely yes. I'd say finding a decent job depends on:

30% School Name
30% Personal Qualities (Grades, Social Skills)
40% Connections

Of course, they kind of intertwine with each other: Going to a good school lets you meet the right people and gives you a better education, having good social skills lets you know even more people.

Baruch College full-time MBA here. We take mostly the same classes and our class is GREAT... diverse, hard-working, intelligent, and we all get along with each other. BUT, a few of the major companies (except for the Big 4 Accounting firms) never recruit here, while they actively recruit at the bigger schools (Stern, CBS). It really takes you that much more effort to meet the right people.

It especially shows when you're applying to summer internships... I've been looking but I'm skeptical I'll get one with the major financial firms.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

there's a huge difference, atleast in the life sciences dept., b/w a public school like temple, where i went, and an ivy league like penn, where my sister went.