Is America playing with fire?

[StageLeft]

First I'd like to say I'm Canadian so maybe I get more of a skewed view living outside the US.

You do, bigtime. I know that you can visit cnn.com and foxnews.com as much as anybody, but Canadians have a seriously fvcking liberal view of things and hate anything US that's even mildly republican. It's almost like a shroud of right-hatingness filters all information that gets to the ears of Canadians. Of course, some see through it, but many don't. Canada, taken as a whole, detests the US's republican party.

 

[faiznne]

Al-Jazeera in, Fox News Channel out of Canada.

As some Canadians already know, Fox News channel's application has been deined by Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC). However, Al-Jazeera has recently won approval from CRTC to broadcast in Canada. The thought of considering Al-Jazeera boiled conservatives and right-wingers in Canada. Conservatives and right-wingers have complained that the liberal dominated CRTC does not want the Canadian public to see conservative and right wing point of views. Thus, denial of Fox News Channel according to conservatives. Conservatives and right-wingers persist that the liberal dominated CRTC allowed CNN because it fit their ideology. Others have shouted this is censorship gone to far by the Canadian Government.

This is Canada. If Al-Jazeera is allowed, we have to allow Fox News Channel in. With so many news sources with so many different spins, we must have more news sources to allow the public to reach informed opinions and be allowed to see all the sides. I agree with Bill O'reilly with this comment about the Canadian public, "They're not getting a full picture. And neither is most of the world."

Source: http://www.newsmax.com/archive...2004/7/19/140321.shtml
Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,125165,00.html
Source: http://www.globeandmail.com/se...y/LAC/20040421/DOYLE21
Source: http://www.proudtobecanadian.c...hp?Cat=&Number=285

 

[arsbanned]

We are definitely headed down a bad path. But we're not all taking it lying down:
http://www.latimes.com/news/po...coll=la-home-headlines
Ohio Court Limits 'Challengers' at Polling Stations

A state court judge issued a sweeping order Saturday limiting the number of party representatives that could be deployed to challenge voters at Ohio polling places on election day.

The Republicans will have to severely cut back their plan to station intimidation goons at polling places. It's disgraceful a judge has to even rule on such a thing. Unbelievable. I know how some of the Germans must have felt in the 30s. Talk about terror!

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
We are definitely headed down a bad path. But we're not all taking it lying down:
http://www.latimes.com/news/po...coll=la-home-headlines
Ohio Court Limits 'Challengers' at Polling Stations

A state court judge issued a sweeping order Saturday limiting the number of party representatives that could be deployed to challenge voters at Ohio polling places on election day.

The Republicans will have to severely cut back their plan to station intimidation goons at polling places. It's disgraceful a judge has to even rule on such a thing. Unbelievable. I know how some of the Germans must have felt in the 30s. Talk about terror!

What do these people do at the polling places exactly?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: arsbanned
We are definitely headed down a bad path. But we're not all taking it lying down:
http://www.latimes.com/news/po...coll=la-home-headlines
Ohio Court Limits 'Challengers' at Polling Stations

A state court judge issued a sweeping order Saturday limiting the number of party representatives that could be deployed to challenge voters at Ohio polling places on election day.

The Republicans will have to severely cut back their plan to station intimidation goons at polling places. It's disgraceful a judge has to even rule on such a thing. Unbelievable. I know how some of the Germans must have felt in the 30s. Talk about terror!

What do these people do at the polling places exactly?

Hold a gun to your head and shoot you if you don't vote for Bush, of course

 

[Locut0s]

faiznne: I'm not sure how to take your post. I agree with some of your points but a lot of what you say does indeed sound rather anti-semitic. Like your obsession with Jewish controlled media.

Skoorb: That's because Canada as a whole falls farther to the left on the political spectrum. You'll find the same feeling if you go farther afield to Europe. Though you don't even need to go outside the US, there are plenty of center, center left and left wing people who equally despise the republican party who live inside the US.

 

[faiznne]

Originally posted by: Locut0s
faiznne: I'm not sure how to take your post. I agree with some of your points but a lot of what you say does indeed sound rather anti-semitic. Like your obsession with Jewish controlled media.

I'm not obssessed about the Jewish-controlled media. I just think these facts are interesting. Just like these facts below:

In the 2000 elections, according to the Mother Jones web site, eight of the top donors to both political parties were Jewish, as were 13 of the top 20 and approximately 120 of the top 250. While the majority of the contributions went to the Democrats, a significant amount went to Republicans heading key Senate and House committees, such as Appropriations, Armed Services, and the Middle East. How committed each and every one of the Jewish donors is to Israel is irrelevant, since members of Congress make no distinctions, viewing all of their contributions as supporting whatever Israeli party is in power.

The White House is also Israeli Occupied Territory. The situation has become so obvious at this point in time that even such a pro-Israel advocate as nationally syndicated New York Times columnist Tom Friedman is bothered by its implications. In his Feb. 5 column, he wrote:

?(Ariel) Sharon has the Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat under house arrest in his office in Ramallah, and he?s had George Bush under house arrest in the Oval Office. Mr. Sharon has Mr. Arafat surrounded by tanks, and Mr. Bush surrounded by Jewish and Christian pro-Israel lobbyists, by a vice president, Dick Cheney, who?s ready to do whatever Mr. Sharon dictates ??

To be sure, former New York Mayor Ed Koch has already denounced Friedman?s comment as being anti-Semitic in a Feb. 12 article in the Jewish World Review. Writes Koch, ?Tom Friedman, who is full of himself, believes he can resort to the anti-Semitic slur of secret Jewish control, and avoid criticism because he is a Jew.?

Source: http://www.sfbayview.com/02180...rsattacked021804.shtml

 

[faiznne]

oops, double post, by accident

 

[Tom]

faiznne-

I believe most Americans don't see supporting Israel as being anti Arab-Muslim.

 

[kylebisme]

I don't think any discussion of fascism would be complete without a quote commonly accredited to Benito Mussolini, the man who first instated a government expressedly founded on the principles of fascism:

Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.

While looking it up though Google to make sure I had the wording right, I found that the quote is originally from Giovanni Gentile. However, regardless of were it came from, it is the content that is important to this discussion. With our politicians subservient to the whims of the special interest groups that fund them, our media (owned in no small part by the military industrial complex) gaining power to control public perception though FCC deregulation, and public education system designed to make our children complacent to the injustices perpetuated upon us; I can't see how anyone can intelligently argue that we are anything but a fascist nation.

On a side note, the Charles Wesley who Bush refers to in his letter is the brother of the founder of Methodism. Despite the fact that they are my Uncles (obviously many greats removed), I have no trouble saying that they were nutcases. Granted, I will argue that point in regards to whoever claims to possess the divine knowledge of God's will; that goes for Bush, Bin Laden, my Uncles, and anyone else as well.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Reading threads like this drives this strange desire to invest in tin.

 

[cwjerome]

Message to the OP: I find your first post silly and the type of scare-mongering that you claim fascists love to use. All I can say is if you think the major networks use of "self-censoring" is dangerous, real censorship, and indicates skirting with fascism, then your the one with a problem, not America. Likewise, if you think Zel Miller's speech is skirting with fascism, your perspective is amazingly perverted... first thing you should do is read some speeches by FDR and Abe Lincoln and using your logic, you will brand them fascistic also. Quit trying to scare people with nonsense.

-exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual.

America is perhaps the most individualistic country on earth, and one of the most diverse. We are also maybe the most free... and don't see how this corrolates with point #1

-uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition.

What political violence? Propaganda comes from various sides using normal channels. There is no censorship on political opponents.

-engages in severe economic and social regimentation.

America has the highest rates of economic and social mobility in the world. Free, diverse, individualistic people abound.

-espouses nationalism and sometimes racism (ethnic nationalism).

Just a regular "rally around the flag" we see in times of danger. Our nationalism is rooted in our ideas, ideas we consider moral and true. This is skirting with fascism? LOL, tell that to France, Canada, and most other nations.

I post my thoughts on the whole Bush vs Hitler thing here: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

This topic is pretty much the same old garbage.

 

[gUEv]

all we need now is a catchy arm salute.

 

[cwjerome]

I'm sure you're one step away from creating your own there guev. Pretty soon you'll want to round up all those rednecks and neocons and put them in ovens where they belong, right?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Reading threads like this drives this strange desire to invest in tin.

Considering your implication, aluminum investments are what you would be after; but such mistakes are easy to make when you take things at face value instead of understanding their true nature.

 

[Locut0s]

cwjerome: I've said this several times but I'll say it again. I am NOT saying that America is fascist. What I am saying is that there are elements that I have seen over the past few years that have fascist tones to them, at least to me. I see little difference between television networks being scared into "self-censoring" their content and true censorship. Sure this is not state sponsored and networks are free not to do so, but the effect is still very similar. I of course don't mean that they are preventing people from seeing John Kerry's speeches or anything, that would indeed be a ridiculous statement. This is not meant to be scare mongering but meant to be a serious discussion. To me scare mongering is insinuating "if you vote for that guy we'll get another September 11th" and this:

http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/watch-video.asp

 

[stratman]

Originally posted by: faiznne

Originally posted by: Locut0s
Tom: True but that also depends on your definition of censorship. Since all of the major TV networks are run by corporations with profit as their bottom line it doesn't take much to scare them into self-censorship. I don't think there's a major network left that doesn't have a "7 second" delay on all live events airing during prime time.

You guys want to know why we continue to support fascist Israel?
1. The Jewish-dominated U.S. media
2. AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee)
3. Neoconservatives and Evangelical Christians
[/L]

Alright. You blame Jews and Christians for a foreign policy you don't agree with.

Uhhhh faiznne, I'm considered left by American standards, but this is rediculous. I'm Canadian, and I know two Jews. One doesn't like Israel, he says they're all rude there (HIS WORDS NOT MINE) and the other doesn't pay attention to politics. You believe that someone's race determines what they deem important? The world is going through this again?

 

[Tom]

Locut0s-

I agree with some of what you say, I just don't associate it with fascism. There is too much power concentrated in large multi-national corporations, but they are not particularly nationalistic.

And I think there is a danger when the President uses fear as a political tactic. See, to me Bush isn't just a candidate, he's also the President right now. When he implies or even directly says that only he and the Republicans can protect us from terrorists, I consider that a perversion of the truth of who is really responsible for protecting us, military, FBI, police and first responders. These people have been busting their as$ since 9/11, I don't like it when Bush takes all the credit for that.

 

[imported_Condor]

I think we were pretty close to fascism during the Clinton administration. We were doing stupid things like the jack booted thugs that took Elian Gonzales from his home and the Federal agents that used 42 days of psychological warfare on the Waco compound and then attacked it. During that period, we for the first time, outlawed the recieving of a radio frequency. Recieving of the 800 mhz band was outlawed to protect cell phone users who don't even use that band today. It is still against federal law to produce or sell a radio that can use that frequency unless it is for a government customer. Clinton also had the most telephone bugs installed of any sitting prresident in the first two years of his administration. I have read all three volumes of "Gulag" and the Clinton administration sounded awfully like the first volume.

 

[cwjerome]

Locut0s: You see little difference between the censorships, but there's all the difference in the world between them. If your so upset about networks not wanting to offend their audiences, you should look at the REAL government censorship in places like Germany and Britain. Or try taking a look at the "cultural" laws in France... how paranoid-nationalistic can a country get? Face it, you've got an agenda here.

Don't try and get sly, and act like you're innocently wondering about something you see and it concerns you. Please. You're saying the same dumbass lines that many political extremists are spouting, and it's insincere and gross. "Hint, hint... hey, I think the US is geting more fascist-like.. hint, hint."

It's plainly obvious that what your real problem is" you just don't like religion and you don't like Bush's religiousness. Wow, join the club, but the fascist horseshit needs to be left in the intellectual dungheap of exagerrated stupidity. People like you shooting their mouth off about fascism are a lot closer to the hateful lying and political propaganda of the fascists of the past we know so well of.

 

[gUEv]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I'm sure you're one step away from creating your own there guev. Pretty soon you'll want to round up all those rednecks and neocons and put them in ovens where they belong, right?

...yyyyyeeeahh......you must have been sleeping in sarcasm school.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
If Canada lost ~3K people you'd be having the same issues...

So you're admitting we're on a slippery slope to fascism...

Right again Infohawk.

We're actually already there. Your name is on the list of people to be drug out of their dorm/apt in the middle of the night & be imprisioned for daring to speak out about our beloved GWB.

I believe the plan is to start in Feb or so.

Dang. You get all the good ones. And actually its December - "Operation: Santa Claus".

"...making a list...and checkin it twice...."