Is America Becoming an Empire and is this at our peril?

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hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Thanks for defending my point.
You're dreadfully confused, the Spanish American war is hardly an example of US Imperialism or aggression. The US HELPED a country WIN its independence from an Imperialist country then gave it self-rule, you dope! Is this thing on? <tap tap> HELLO!

Maybe there's a language barrier or something....
rolleye.gif

I'll let Wiliam Graham Sumner answer that:



The Conquest of the United States by Spain (1898)
by William Graham Sumner


Spain was the first, for a long time the greatest, of the modern imperialist states. The United States, by its historical origin, its traditions, and its principles, is the chief representative of the revolt and reaction against that kind of state. I intend to show that, by the line of action now proposed to us, which we call expansion and imperialism, we are throwing away some of the most important elements of the American symbol and are adopting some of the most important elements of the Spanish symbol.

We have beaten Spain in a military conflict, but we are submitting to be conquered by her on the field of ideas and policies. Expansionism and imperialism are nothing but the old philosophies of national prosperity which have brought Spain to where she now is. Those philosophies appeal to national vanity and national cupidity. They are seductive, especially upon the first view and the most superficial judgment, and therefore it cannot be denied that they are very strong for popular effect.

They are delusions, and they will lead us to ruin unless we are hard-headed enough to resist them....

Now what will hasten the day when our present advantages will wear out and when we shall come down to the conditions of the older and densely populated nations? The answer is: war, debt, taxation, diplomacy, a grand governmental system, pomp, glory, a big army and navy, lavish expenditures, political jobbery ? in a word, imperialism.

In the old days the democratic masses of this country, who knew little about our modern doctrines of social philosophy, had a sound instinct on these matters, and it is no small ground of political disquietude to see it decline. They resisted every appeal to their vanity in the way of pomp and glory which they knew must be paid for. They dreaded a public debt ... and went too far with these notions, but they were, at least, right, if they wanted to strengthen democracy....

Expansion and imperialism are at war with the best traditions, principles, and interests of the American people ... and they will plunge us into a network of difficult problems and political perils, which we might have avoided, while they offer us no corresponding advantage in return....

And yet this scheme of a republic which our fathers formed was a glorious dream which demands more than a word of respect and affection before it passes away. Indeed, it is not fair to call it a dream or even an ideal; it was a possibility which was within our reach if we had been wise enough to grasp and hold it....

There would be no armies except a militia, which would have no functions but those of police.. They would have no public debt. They repudiated with scorn the notion that a public debt is a public blessing; if debt was incurred in war it was to be paid in peace and not entailed on posterity. There was to be no grand diplomacy, because they intended to mind their own business and not be involved in any of the intrigues to which European statesmen were accustomed....

Our fathers would have an economical government, even if grand people called it a parsimonious one, and taxes should be no greater than were absolutely necessary to pay for such a government. The citizen was to keep all the rest of his earnings and use them as he thought best for the happiness of himself and his family; he was, above all, to be insured peace and quiet while he pursued his honest industry and obeyed the laws.

No adventurous policies of conquest or ambition, such as, in the belief of our fathers, kings and nobles had forced, for their own advantage, on European states, would ever be undertaken by a free democratic republic. Therefore the citizen here would never be forced to leave his family or to give his sons to shed blood for glory and to leave widows and orphans in misery for nothing.

Justice and law were to reign in the midst of simplicity, and a government which had little to do was to offer little field for ambition. In a society where industry, frugality, and prudence were honored, it was believed that the vices of wealth would never flourish....

There are people who are boasting of their patriotism, because they say that we have taken our place now amongst the nations of the earth by virtue of this war. My patriotism is of the kind which is outraged by the notion that the United States never was a great nation until in a petty three months? campaign it knocked to pieces a poor, decrepit, bankrupt old state like Spain. To hold such an opinion is to abandon all American standards, to put shame and scorn on all that our ancestors tried to build up here, and to go over to the standards of which Spain is a representative...



 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,349
259
126
I'll let Wiliam Graham Sumner answer that:
You should, since it is readily apparent you cannot credibly answer this or any other question I've posed to you. You divert, dismiss, and make quip attacks like "spoken like a true empirialist" without ever offering a substantive word of argument. I ask you a question, only to be answered with a completely unrelated and irrelevant question (more diversions). You answer my repeated request for an answer with a request of your own (more diversions).

So I answer your diversion, then expect you to reciprocate, only to be met with more dismissal and diversion. Your latest, and certainly most laughable, diversion is to provide the Spanish-American War as the 'evidence' of America's Imperialism and aggression, a war that was fought to free territories FROM one of the most notorious Imperialist Empires in the New World.

It is clear you have no intent to engage in any sort of honest discourse and you cling to your anti-American views in the face of overwhelming flaws and errors of not only fact, but logic and reason.

So be it. Until you can answer my question, without resorting to another question or diversion or any other dishonest methods to avoid having to confront or admit of the flaw or error in your view, there's no point in my entertaining any more of your nonsense.

I try not to argue with idiots, because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. You've dragged me down as far as I'm willing to go on this issue.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,349
259
126
LMAO, Europe sold weapons to the Iraqis? And the US did what? US supplied Irak with plenty of weapons, they delivered way more than ANY european country did...
Iraq uses Soviet weapons, which they received from the Soviets, to the tune of some $12 billion worth. France built Iraq's entire air-defense and communications infrastructure, as well as providing Iraq with some biologicals. Isreal was covertly selling weapons to both Iraq AND Iran, hoping they would get into protracted armed conflict that would prove damaging to both countries.

The US supplied Iraq mostly with financial and intelligence assistance, not weapons, although we did supply them with some small arms and biologicals (for medical purposes, like France and two or three other countries did).
 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: tcsenter
I'll let Wiliam Graham Sumner answer that:
You should, since it is readily apparent you cannot credibly answer this or any other question I've posed to you. You divert, dismiss, and make quip attacks like "spoken like a true empirialist" without ever offering a substantive word of argument. I ask you a question, only to be answered with a completely unrelated and irrelevant question (more diversions). You answer my repeated request for an answer with a request of your own (more diversions).

What "diversion"? This part of the discussion revolved around when I believe the US abandoned isolationism, I said the Spanish American war, someone else thought WWI.

Here is that part of the thread:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is a matter of indisputable historical record that the United States pursued a national policy of isolationism until WWI,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I said -----> Spanish American war right a bell?


You then came in and called me a moron because Spain declared war on the US. I then attempted to show that Spain was provoked, and the US brought about the war, and that this is when the US first abandoned its isolationist policy. Sumner agreed with this view, hence my reason for quoting him.

Sumner did a very good job of predicting what would result from such empiralistic actions, and his essay is as right today as it was in 1898.

So I answer your diversion, then expect you to reciprocate, only to be met with more dismissal and diversion. Your latest, and certainly most laughable, diversion is to provide the Spanish-American War as the 'evidence' of America's Imperialism and aggression, a war that was fought to free territories FROM one of the most notorious Imperialist Empires in the New World.

In the context of the original debate, its appropriate. Maybe if you stated your question, I could answer it?

It is clear you have no intent to engage in any sort of honest discourse and you cling to your anti-American views in the face of overwhelming flaws and errors of not only fact, but logic and reason.

I'm not doing anything of the sort.

So be it. Until you can answer my question, without resorting to another question or diversion or any other dishonest methods to avoid having to confront or admit of the flaw or error in your view, there's no point in my entertaining any more of your nonsense.

State your question.

I try not to argue with idiots, because they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. You've dragged me down as far as I'm willing to go on this issue.

More ad hominem.



 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: tcsenter
LMAO, Europe sold weapons to the Iraqis? And the US did what? US supplied Irak with plenty of weapons, they delivered way more than ANY european country did...
Iraq uses Soviet weapons, which they received from the Soviets, to the tune of some $12 billion worth. France built Iraq's entire air-defense and communications infrastructure, as well as providing Iraq with some biologicals. Isreal was covertly selling weapons to both Iraq AND Iran, hoping they would get into protracted armed conflict that would prove damaging to both countries.

The US supplied Iraq mostly with financial and intelligence assistance, not weapons, although we did supply them with some small arms and biologicals (for medical purposes, like France and two or three other countries did).

oh, i guess that the half of their weapons are intelligence assisted then... doh...
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...


I'm glad to hear it SnapIt, you get whatever country you are from to take over the job. Give to the poor and protect the innocent. We'll sit back and lie about what you are doing and why you are doing it. It looks like fun.

 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...


I'm glad to hear it SnapIt, you get whatever country you are from to take over the job. Give to the poor and protect the innocent. We'll sit back and lie about what you are doing and why you are doing it. It looks like fun.

You act like no other country does anything, good for you, you have obviously bought the whole package...

"the innocent" you mean the israelis bombing civilian property? oh, i bet you didn't mean that...

Do you know how many innocent afghans were killed? trust me, it was more than the 3000 of 9/11, but why would you care, you don't live there anyways...

The message is, the US cares about the US, the US pretends to care about the world, they tried to get ONE ally, this ally insisted on having the UN checking up on it first, every true patriot of the US then says that the UN only did it when the US forced them to do it, it's idiotic, and everyone who has more than a pea for a brain knows it...

Your mouth is so big atm, i was in Bosnia, it was cool until the bombers started bombing, therafter we were all appointed medical staff and had to carry stretchers all day long, women with holes in their chest, children without their legs...

EU couldn't handle it my ass, the US were just sitting on too many bombs...
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...


I'm glad to hear it SnapIt, you get whatever country you are from to take over the job. Give to the poor and protect the innocent. We'll sit back and lie about what you are doing and why you are doing it. It looks like fun.

You act like no other country does anything, good for you, you have obviously bought the whole package...

"the innocent" you mean the israelis bombing civilian property? oh, i bet you didn't mean that...

Do you know how many innocent afghans were killed? trust me, it was more than the 3000 of 9/11, but why would you care, you don't live there anyways...

The message is, the US cares about the US, the US pretends to care about the world, they tried to get ONE ally, this ally insisted on having the UN checking up on it first, every true patriot of the US then says that the UN only did it when the US forced them to do it, it's idiotic, and everyone who has more than a pea for a brain knows it...

Your mouth is so big atm, i was in Bosnia, it was cool until the bombers started bombing, therafter we were all appointed medical staff and had to carry stretchers all day long, women with holes in their chest, children without their legs...

EU couldn't handle it my ass, the US were just sitting on too many bombs...


So if it was so cool there, why were we called in to help? And why are we still there? And why does the EU not want us to pull our forces from there?
 

ScrewFace

Banned
Sep 21, 2002
3,812
0
0
The U.S. is an Empire and has been since 1945 whe they became the undisputeed Master of the Globe. Like or not (I like it) the U.S. is again the undisputed Master of the Globe even though they don't wanna be. Long live the U.S.A.!!!:)
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...


I'm glad to hear it SnapIt, you get whatever country you are from to take over the job. Give to the poor and protect the innocent. We'll sit back and lie about what you are doing and why you are doing it. It looks like fun.

You act like no other country does anything, good for you, you have obviously bought the whole package...

"the innocent" you mean the israelis bombing civilian property? oh, i bet you didn't mean that...

Do you know how many innocent afghans were killed? trust me, it was more than the 3000 of 9/11, but why would you care, you don't live there anyways...

The message is, the US cares about the US, the US pretends to care about the world, they tried to get ONE ally, this ally insisted on having the UN checking up on it first, every true patriot of the US then says that the UN only did it when the US forced them to do it, it's idiotic, and everyone who has more than a pea for a brain knows it...

Your mouth is so big atm, i was in Bosnia, it was cool until the bombers started bombing, therafter we were all appointed medical staff and had to carry stretchers all day long, women with holes in their chest, children without their legs...

EU couldn't handle it my ass, the US were just sitting on too many bombs...


So if it was so cool there, why were we called in to help? And why are we still there? And why does the EU not want us to pull our forces from there?
The EU is there, they are going to take over the peacekeeping, or have done, not sure. And btw, France, probably your favorite country has lost more peacekeeping troops in Bosnia than the US did in its war in Afghanistan.

 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...


I'm glad to hear it SnapIt, you get whatever country you are from to take over the job. Give to the poor and protect the innocent. We'll sit back and lie about what you are doing and why you are doing it. It looks like fun.

You act like no other country does anything, good for you, you have obviously bought the whole package...

"the innocent" you mean the israelis bombing civilian property? oh, i bet you didn't mean that...

Do you know how many innocent afghans were killed? trust me, it was more than the 3000 of 9/11, but why would you care, you don't live there anyways...

The message is, the US cares about the US, the US pretends to care about the world, they tried to get ONE ally, this ally insisted on having the UN checking up on it first, every true patriot of the US then says that the UN only did it when the US forced them to do it, it's idiotic, and everyone who has more than a pea for a brain knows it...

Your mouth is so big atm, i was in Bosnia, it was cool until the bombers started bombing, therafter we were all appointed medical staff and had to carry stretchers all day long, women with holes in their chest, children without their legs...

EU couldn't handle it my ass, the US were just sitting on too many bombs...


So if it was so cool there, why were we called in to help? And why are we still there? And why does the EU not want us to pull our forces from there?

I dunno, actually, i only know what i saw... i am not there anymore, thankfully... the peacekeeping forces did their job, and are still doing it, actually, yeah, at that job i cannot complain, but those bombings, i would say that about 95% was just to show firepower...

maybe it was to show them that they could not do as they please, maybe i should be thankful, but trust me, when you have to shoot a five-year old just to end his neverending pain, you are not all that thankful...

Not all of the massgraves were serbian, some of them were casualties of war, we brought them... after their bodies were burned...
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
SnapIT

Sounds like you need to get busy. Get your country to take over all of the problems in the world the US is dealing with. I would dearly love to see how much better your country can handle things.

BTW, what country did you say you were from?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...


I'm glad to hear it SnapIt, you get whatever country you are from to take over the job. Give to the poor and protect the innocent. We'll sit back and lie about what you are doing and why you are doing it. It looks like fun.

You act like no other country does anything, good for you, you have obviously bought the whole package...

"the innocent" you mean the israelis bombing civilian property? oh, i bet you didn't mean that...

Do you know how many innocent afghans were killed? trust me, it was more than the 3000 of 9/11, but why would you care, you don't live there anyways...

The message is, the US cares about the US, the US pretends to care about the world, they tried to get ONE ally, this ally insisted on having the UN checking up on it first, every true patriot of the US then says that the UN only did it when the US forced them to do it, it's idiotic, and everyone who has more than a pea for a brain knows it...

Your mouth is so big atm, i was in Bosnia, it was cool until the bombers started bombing, therafter we were all appointed medical staff and had to carry stretchers all day long, women with holes in their chest, children without their legs...

EU couldn't handle it my ass, the US were just sitting on too many bombs...


So if it was so cool there, why were we called in to help? And why are we still there? And why does the EU not want us to pull our forces from there?

I dunno, actually, i only know what i saw... i am not there anymore, thankfully... the peacekeeping forces did their job, and are still doing it, actually, yeah, at that job i cannot complain, but those bombings, i would say that about 95% was just to show firepower...

maybe it was to show them that they could not do as they please, maybe i should be thankful, but trust me, when you have to shoot a five-year old just to end his neverending pain, you are not all that thankful...

Not all of the massgraves were serbian, some of them were casualties of war, we brought them... after their bodies were burned...

No one said war was without pain and suffering. I think we can both agree that things are much better in bosnia than they were a few years ago.
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: etech
SnapIT

Sounds like you need to get busy. Get your country to take over all of the problems in the world the US is dealing with. I would dearly love to see how much better your country can handle things.

BTW, what country did you say you were from?

Actually, i doubt that Sweden would face any harm from any of these countries, do you? or are you just born a moron like i thought?


Yup, i am from Sweden, i did my duty on SWE Force, not that you would have any idea of what that is as you are all in for sending people into war as long as the pimple on your nose does not bleed...

Now, as you have been exposed as a frequent wannabee, why not just crawl under your rock and go away...
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: etech
SnapIT

Sounds like you need to get busy. Get your country to take over all of the problems in the world the US is dealing with. I would dearly love to see how much better your country can handle things.

BTW, what country did you say you were from?

Actually, i doubt that Sweden would face any harm from any of these countries, do you? or are you just born a moron like i thought?


Yup, i am from Sweden, i did my duty on SWE Force, not that you would have any idea of what that is as you are all in for sending people into war as long as the pimple on your nose does not bleed...

Now, as you have been exposed as a frequent wannabee, why not just crawl under your rock and go away...


Yep, the Swedes can handle the world's problems can't they? They did a wonderful job in WWII of helping to contain Hitler while taking all of that money into their banks.

Get real you whiner. All you do is bitch and complain about what the US does. Come up with better solutions and let your country handle the problem or just butt out.

The only thing that has been exposed is your lack of any real solution to any problem.
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...


I'm glad to hear it SnapIt, you get whatever country you are from to take over the job. Give to the poor and protect the innocent. We'll sit back and lie about what you are doing and why you are doing it. It looks like fun.

You act like no other country does anything, good for you, you have obviously bought the whole package...

"the innocent" you mean the israelis bombing civilian property? oh, i bet you didn't mean that...

Do you know how many innocent afghans were killed? trust me, it was more than the 3000 of 9/11, but why would you care, you don't live there anyways...

The message is, the US cares about the US, the US pretends to care about the world, they tried to get ONE ally, this ally insisted on having the UN checking up on it first, every true patriot of the US then says that the UN only did it when the US forced them to do it, it's idiotic, and everyone who has more than a pea for a brain knows it...

Your mouth is so big atm, i was in Bosnia, it was cool until the bombers started bombing, therafter we were all appointed medical staff and had to carry stretchers all day long, women with holes in their chest, children without their legs...

EU couldn't handle it my ass, the US were just sitting on too many bombs...


So if it was so cool there, why were we called in to help? And why are we still there? And why does the EU not want us to pull our forces from there?

I dunno, actually, i only know what i saw... i am not there anymore, thankfully... the peacekeeping forces did their job, and are still doing it, actually, yeah, at that job i cannot complain, but those bombings, i would say that about 95% was just to show firepower...

maybe it was to show them that they could not do as they please, maybe i should be thankful, but trust me, when you have to shoot a five-year old just to end his neverending pain, you are not all that thankful...

Not all of the massgraves were serbian, some of them were casualties of war, we brought them... after their bodies were burned...

No one said war was without pain and suffering. I think we can both agree that things are much better in bosnia than they were a few years ago.

Actually, do you even have any idea of what is going on in bosnia atm?

No, you do not, the killings are quite frequent, and if you paid attention to what was happening you would have known more... but i guess we all pay attention to different things, so i will not hold that against you, even though you brought the issue up...

Yes, Charrisson, i know, the war calmed down after the US bombed their own embassy and stuff...
You do know about this right, oh, it wasn't all over the news in the US, how surprising...

I was there, you were not, sure, things are calm these days, if you bomb A LOT people tend to stay calm...

Actually, i got a UN ticket to NK, do you think i should go?
 

CSFM

Senior member
Oct 16, 2001
518
0
0
Originally posted by: A5
Is America Becoming an Empire
Not by definition, since we don't have an emperor. ;)
(And if someone tried to become one, then everyone would be quite glad for the 2nd Amendment; but of course, if anyone did that, they'd probably have control of the military first, so we'd all be screwed.)

Speaking as an Australian... You're government do have control of your military... and they are out protecting you're corporate interests in the Middle East. The real news is hidden from the average 'American' so you're covert Government can secure the oil and gold from that part of the work.

Enron made an $18 BILLION investment in Afghanistan before they went belly up (which is another suspect deal that the US government had their hand in)... So is there any wonder that the US forces are deployed in that country. The Taliban didn't want the US to steal their oil and gas.

While G.W. bush talks about Iraq using chemical weapons on their own population, he forgets Vietnam where the good old US used agent orange on not only it's own people, but the innocent civilians of Vietnam and other countries troops! The same country that used Nuclear weapons in Japan to "end the war"...

No one else has used those weapons in war other than the U.S.A. And you're worried about Iraq having them.

Donald Rumsfeld said just the other week that it was a disgrace that a country like Iraq with so much hunger (caused partly by UN sanctions) is spending money on weapons programs... what a hypocrite... look at your own back yard champ! no health care program for your citizens, hardly any welfare for the poor, homeless, jobless, riddled with crime... and the USA has an open ended budget for the military! What a joke.

I say get out of other peoples countries, take your junk food restaurants and P!ss off America. Come back when you know what it means to treat people with respect and not with contempt.

Just can't stand to see people suffer.

If I have offended anyone here, maybe you're some of the culprits...

-CSFM-
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...


I'm glad to hear it SnapIt, you get whatever country you are from to take over the job. Give to the poor and protect the innocent. We'll sit back and lie about what you are doing and why you are doing it. It looks like fun.

You act like no other country does anything, good for you, you have obviously bought the whole package...

"the innocent" you mean the israelis bombing civilian property? oh, i bet you didn't mean that...

Do you know how many innocent afghans were killed? trust me, it was more than the 3000 of 9/11, but why would you care, you don't live there anyways...

The message is, the US cares about the US, the US pretends to care about the world, they tried to get ONE ally, this ally insisted on having the UN checking up on it first, every true patriot of the US then says that the UN only did it when the US forced them to do it, it's idiotic, and everyone who has more than a pea for a brain knows it...

Your mouth is so big atm, i was in Bosnia, it was cool until the bombers started bombing, therafter we were all appointed medical staff and had to carry stretchers all day long, women with holes in their chest, children without their legs...

EU couldn't handle it my ass, the US were just sitting on too many bombs...


So if it was so cool there, why were we called in to help? And why are we still there? And why does the EU not want us to pull our forces from there?

I dunno, actually, i only know what i saw... i am not there anymore, thankfully... the peacekeeping forces did their job, and are still doing it, actually, yeah, at that job i cannot complain, but those bombings, i would say that about 95% was just to show firepower...

maybe it was to show them that they could not do as they please, maybe i should be thankful, but trust me, when you have to shoot a five-year old just to end his neverending pain, you are not all that thankful...

Not all of the massgraves were serbian, some of them were casualties of war, we brought them... after their bodies were burned...

No one said war was without pain and suffering. I think we can both agree that things are much better in bosnia than they were a few years ago.

Actually, do you even have any idea of what is going on in bosnia atm?

No, you do not, the killings are quite frequent, and if you paid attention to what was happening you would have known more... but i guess we all pay attention to different things, so i will not hold that against you, even though you brought the issue up...

Yes, Charrisson, i know, the war calmed down after the US bombed their own embassy and stuff...
You do know about this right, oh, it wasn't all over the news in the US, how surprising...

I was there, you were not, sure, things are calm these days, if you bomb A LOT people tend to stay calm...

Actually, i got a UN ticket to NK, do you think i should go?

I said better, not perfect.
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: etech
SnapIT

Sounds like you need to get busy. Get your country to take over all of the problems in the world the US is dealing with. I would dearly love to see how much better your country can handle things.

BTW, what country did you say you were from?

Actually, i doubt that Sweden would face any harm from any of these countries, do you? or are you just born a moron like i thought?


Yup, i am from Sweden, i did my duty on SWE Force, not that you would have any idea of what that is as you are all in for sending people into war as long as the pimple on your nose does not bleed...

Now, as you have been exposed as a frequent wannabee, why not just crawl under your rock and go away...


Yep, the Swedes can handle the world's problems can't they? They did a wonderful job in WWII of helping to contain Hitler while taking all of that money into their banks.

Get real you whiner. All you do is bitch and complain about what the US does. Come up with better solutions and let your country handle the problem or just butt out.

The only thing that has been exposed is your lack of any real solution to any problem.

So says the man who are welcome to having americans killed in the war, as long as he is not one of them... you do not know nothing, actually, the solution to the Iran-Iraq war came from Sweden, but you didn't know that, did you you idiot...

The only thing that has been exposed is your wish to expend the soldiers that you wish to send to war, a meaningless war you say, who cares it is war, e-tech says LETS DO IT....

You want to go back fourty years, i wasn't even born then, but maybe it matters to you that ONCE you did a good thing... not because you had to, not because you wanted to but because Germany was growing too big and you had to try out your new toys on Japan, the whole world except for ignorants such as yourself agrees that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts or incredible cruelty, which led to millions of deaths... but you... what's next, do i have to go? ok, then let's do it...
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Actually, i do believe that the US are acting as the emperors of the world...

The third world war is when we will not take their BS anymore... that goes for the rest of the world, including south america and canada...

Actually, most of the world is tired of the US propaganda BS that the citizens are fed and (dumb as they are) believe every single day...

We are tired of the world police that does not act when threats are posed, but rather when profits can be gained...

We are tired of the BE, that is the British Empire, which IM (Idiot Minister) Blare is trying to set up, sucking GW's balls all day long must be a hairy job...

This is BS, most people know it, some idiots believe in the propaganda, like my grandfather said, he has seen it all before, last time it was the Germans...


I'm glad to hear it SnapIt, you get whatever country you are from to take over the job. Give to the poor and protect the innocent. We'll sit back and lie about what you are doing and why you are doing it. It looks like fun.

You act like no other country does anything, good for you, you have obviously bought the whole package...

"the innocent" you mean the israelis bombing civilian property? oh, i bet you didn't mean that...

Do you know how many innocent afghans were killed? trust me, it was more than the 3000 of 9/11, but why would you care, you don't live there anyways...

The message is, the US cares about the US, the US pretends to care about the world, they tried to get ONE ally, this ally insisted on having the UN checking up on it first, every true patriot of the US then says that the UN only did it when the US forced them to do it, it's idiotic, and everyone who has more than a pea for a brain knows it...

Your mouth is so big atm, i was in Bosnia, it was cool until the bombers started bombing, therafter we were all appointed medical staff and had to carry stretchers all day long, women with holes in their chest, children without their legs...

EU couldn't handle it my ass, the US were just sitting on too many bombs...


So if it was so cool there, why were we called in to help? And why are we still there? And why does the EU not want us to pull our forces from there?

I dunno, actually, i only know what i saw... i am not there anymore, thankfully... the peacekeeping forces did their job, and are still doing it, actually, yeah, at that job i cannot complain, but those bombings, i would say that about 95% was just to show firepower...

maybe it was to show them that they could not do as they please, maybe i should be thankful, but trust me, when you have to shoot a five-year old just to end his neverending pain, you are not all that thankful...

Not all of the massgraves were serbian, some of them were casualties of war, we brought them... after their bodies were burned...

No one said war was without pain and suffering. I think we can both agree that things are much better in bosnia than they were a few years ago.

Actually, do you even have any idea of what is going on in bosnia atm?

No, you do not, the killings are quite frequent, and if you paid attention to what was happening you would have known more... but i guess we all pay attention to different things, so i will not hold that against you, even though you brought the issue up...

Yes, Charrisson, i know, the war calmed down after the US bombed their own embassy and stuff...
You do know about this right, oh, it wasn't all over the news in the US, how surprising...

I was there, you were not, sure, things are calm these days, if you bomb A LOT people tend to stay calm...

Actually, i got a UN ticket to NK, do you think i should go?

I said better, not perfect.

True, and i admit, yes...
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Enron made an $18 BILLION investment in Afghanistan before they went belly up (which is another suspect deal that the US government had their hand in)... So is there any wonder that the US forces are deployed in that country. The Taliban didn't want the US to steal their oil and gas.

Nope, no such deal happened. I would ask for proof, but you have none.
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Enron made an $18 BILLION investment in Afghanistan before they went belly up (which is another suspect deal that the US government had their hand in)... So is there any wonder that the US forces are deployed in that country. The Taliban didn't want the US to steal their oil and gas.

Nope, no such deal happened. I would ask for proof, but you have none.

Wouldn't it be pretty hard to get proof of that if it WAS true?

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: charrison
Enron made an $18 BILLION investment in Afghanistan before they went belly up (which is another suspect deal that the US government had their hand in)... So is there any wonder that the US forces are deployed in that country. The Taliban didn't want the US to steal their oil and gas.

Nope, no such deal happened. I would ask for proof, but you have none.

Wouldn't it be pretty hard to get proof of that if it WAS true?

You dont invest 18 BIllion dollars without someone knowing something.


And if you paid attention, the afgan pipeline deal just recently went thru. Not a single US corperation involved.
The $3 billion deal should do the afgan population some good.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
SnapIT

So says the man who are welcome to having americans killed in the war, as long as he is not one of them... you do not know nothing, actually, the solution to the Iran-Iraq war came from Sweden, but you didn't know that, did you you idiot...

The only thing that has been exposed is your wish to expend the soldiers that you wish to send to war, a meaningless war you say, who cares it is war, e-tech says LETS DO IT....

You want to go back fourty years, i wasn't even born then, but maybe it matters to you that ONCE you did a good thing... not because you had to, not because you wanted to but because Germany was growing too big and you had to try out your new toys on Japan, the whole world except for ignorants such as yourself agrees that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts or incredible cruelty, which led to millions of deaths... but you... what's next, do i have to go? ok, then let's do it...
So many misconceptions, so little time.

I have spent four years in the military. I volunteered and did not have to be dragged into kicking and screaming because it was compulsory for everyone.

I still don't know what Sweden did to end the Iran/Iraq war. I thought it had something to do with - "Iran's acceptance of UN Security Council Resolution 598, which ended the Iran-Iraq conflict with a cease-fire, but no formal treaty"

It's obvious that you weren't born forty years ago. Your lack on knowledge of the history of the time proves it. You say that we entered WWII to try out our new weapons on Japan. How stupid a statement can you make?

You still have no solutions and all you do is criticize. That seems typical of the people that can't do anything but they want to whine about what is being done.