Is AMD a sinking ship? Far from it.

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: StopSign

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: StopSign
Desktop share is up because 99% of the people in the world are average computer users (a.k.a. noobs) who have never heard of Conroe and are still on the Athlon X2 bandwagon.

And here's a perfect example of a computer forum elitist.

If someone buying a computer for home/office use can get an X2 rig for hundreds less than a C2D rig, the cost savings is worth the extra second or two it will take to load up Excel or Acrobat.

Sometime there is a basis for elitism.

You are not going to get an X2 rig for "hundreds less" less than a Conroe rig.. this ancient AMD-fanboy argument that AMD is somehow cheaper is and has always been nonsense.

3GHz is fairly easy to get from any Conroe based chip and I've seen them go for as little as $149.99 for an E4300 with a free motherboard. Subtract "hundreds" from $149.99 and show me where I can purchase this chip, seriously.

Then, for fun, show me how to make this super cheap X2 run as fast as a 3GHz C2D.

Your blind devotion to AMD has been duly noted. Keep following bandwagons... down with America, up with Sheehan and Chavez!!! :laugh:

Again, more elitism. Apparently you think the 2% of computer enthusiasts who custom-build or overclock control the marketplace.
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I think the problem we're encountering in this thread is that I'm discussing the business aspects of AMD vs. Intel, while fanboys like you keep chanting about your overclocked CPUs and benchmarks.

No I think you need to calm down and reread what we're writing. What you said perfectly supports my so-called "elitist" argument. Don't get your panties in a knot because I used the term "noobs." I'm sorry. I apologize for using that word and take it back as it has blinded you with rage.

Here is a rephrased version of my original post: AMD desktop share is up because 99% of the people in the world don't overclock, and therefore go with the cheaper OEM systems.

You agree or disagree? If you agree, does that make you a "forum elitist"?

My comment was directed at BeachBoy. And yes, I do agree with you.

 

[BadThad]

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: StopSign
Desktop share is up because 99% of the people in the world are average computer users (a.k.a. noobs) who have never heard of Conroe and are still on the Athlon X2 bandwagon.

And here's a perfect example of a computer forum elitist.

If someone buying a computer for home/office use can get an X2 rig for hundreds less than a C2D rig, the cost savings is worth the extra second or two it will take to load up Excel or Acrobat.

Sometime there is a basis for elitism.

You are not going to get an X2 rig for "hundreds less" less than a Conroe rig.. this ancient AMD-fanboy argument that AMD is somehow cheaper is and has always been nonsense.

3GHz is fairly easy to get from any Conroe based chip and I've seen them go for as little as $149.99 for an E4300 with a free motherboard. Subtract "hundreds" from $149.99 and show me where I can purchase this chip, seriously.

Then, for fun, show me how to make this super cheap X2 run as fast as a 3GHz C2D.

Your blind devotion to AMD has been duly noted. Keep following bandwagons... down with America, up with Sheehan and Chavez!!! :laugh:

Right on! PWNT! LOL

 

[Regs]

First and foremost the enthusiasts market segment has always been segregated from the more conservative market segments who are just looking for a cheap and reliable machine that can get the job done.

With the conservative markets the buyer is looking more at the place. Like Dell for instance. This is when brand name recognition and brand loyalty come more into play. If the buyer is more familiar with Intel then he depends on Intel to deliver what it had in the past. However if the buyer had less of a success with Intel in the past he may think on switching to AMD

Enthusiasts have a habit of locking themselves into one narrow view and that is performance. Price comes secondary. Though we have one powerful purpose in the market and that is to spread the word of mouth. We are in fact one of the most powerful marketing tools Intel or AMD has to offer and it's free.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: BadThad

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: StopSign
Desktop share is up because 99% of the people in the world are average computer users (a.k.a. noobs) who have never heard of Conroe and are still on the Athlon X2 bandwagon.

And here's a perfect example of a computer forum elitist.

If someone buying a computer for home/office use can get an X2 rig for hundreds less than a C2D rig, the cost savings is worth the extra second or two it will take to load up Excel or Acrobat.

Sometime there is a basis for elitism.

You are not going to get an X2 rig for "hundreds less" less than a Conroe rig.. this ancient AMD-fanboy argument that AMD is somehow cheaper is and has always been nonsense.

3GHz is fairly easy to get from any Conroe based chip and I've seen them go for as little as $149.99 for an E4300 with a free motherboard. Subtract "hundreds" from $149.99 and show me where I can purchase this chip, seriously.

Then, for fun, show me how to make this super cheap X2 run as fast as a 3GHz C2D.

Your blind devotion to AMD has been duly noted. Keep following bandwagons... down with America, up with Sheehan and Chavez!!! :laugh:

Right on! PWNT! LOL

LOLLER! ROFLMAO! ASL BRB KTHXBYE!

Actually I did have a question. How are the new safety and security features of AOL 9.0?

 

[Rottie]

Originally posted by: Kreon
AMD will make a comeback

AMD and Intel are like any other 2 companies competeing for profits.

One makes a sttride, the other matches/surpasses it
and the cycle continues, on and on

Will Cyrix ever make a comeback?

 

[Antikristuseke]

AMD is hardly compareable to Cyrix since Cyrix didnt really become a serious competitor for more than a very short period. AMD had the performance lead for a long while over intel, where were the doomcallers then?
The fact that Intel has the performance crown is temporary, just like amds performance crown holding period that will surely come will b teporary.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: Beachboy
Heck, all I know is I was about to get an X2-3800 that was on sale at Fry's last July for $189.99 and I am so glad I didn't.

That was a huge price cut on an s939 part (which is presumably what Fry's was offering). For someone looking at a cheap CPU upgrade to a s939 rig with a single-core processor, it was a great deal. Given the current prices on s939 X2s, it looks even better.

AMD didn't lower the price on their chips until they were literally forced to. If that's not unfriendly I don't know what is...

Look, based on the rest of your post we both know why AMD was forced to lower prices (and why they were able to keep them "high" for so long leading up to Conroe's launch), but I'll ask again, how is this unfriendly? It's not like AMD can always afford to do what they did with the 1.4 ghz T-birds and sell the fastest desktop CPU on the market (which is what T-birds were for a long time, and what X2s were until Conroe launched) at bargain-basement prices. Viewed in any historical context versus single-core K8 prices and prices on Pentium IIs, Pentium IIIs, and Pentium IVs, X2 prices weren't unfriendly in the least. $300 for an x2-3800+ was a pretty good deal, especially considering how cheap it was to get a decent board for one and OC it to around 2.4 ghz with stock cooling. Intel is practically dumping excellent processors at low prices to take back market share, which is essentially what AMD was trying to do back in the T-bird days. Unlike AMD, however, Intel is making their money back by selling motherboard chipsets at astronomical prices.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: Rottie

Will Cyrix ever make a comeback?

Seeing as how VIA owns them now . . . no, on many different levels.

 

[TekDemon]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I think the problem we're encountering in this thread is that I'm discussing the business aspects of AMD vs. Intel, while fanboys like you keep chanting about your overclocked CPUs and benchmarks.

I seriously hope you're not really using your logic from the first post to make financial decisions...this is horrible news for AMD.

AMD doesn't make money on budget chips, which happen to be what they're able to sell now. There's a reason why they didn't gain anything in the high end, intel owns the entire high end right now. Worse yet, they're losing server share too.

The only real reason a company like AMD keeps selling chips they're "losing" money on is just to try to offset their fixed costs as best they can-those plants aren't cheap to maintain and staff, so they can't even lower supply too much or they're just bleeding money for nothing. Of course this just means that AMD has to keep pumping out what they can, and since nobody's willing to buy at a profitable price they're dumping them all over the low end.

And if the difference between the same HP is $30 between the Intel and AMD platforms...that's HUGE on a budget system for just a CPU! That could actually be the entire profit margin and then some for a budget CPU.

Yes, AMD's stuff might scale better to multiple cores than Intel's. Problem is that when your chip is that much slower to begin with, it doesn't matter how well you scale because even with inferior scaling efficiencies Core 2 will walk all over anything AMD has. AMD doesn't scale so much better that they can compensate for the fact that their CPU architecture is slower, or the fact that an 8 core server will use significantly more electricity than an Intel based server (companies that run server farms actually do care about how much their electricity bills are, since that eats up plenty of money).

So if you're really serious about how this is supposed to be a financial discussion and not a fanboy thread...well your OP basically reads like an obsessed fanboy post from a financial perspective, you're seeing good news when everyone else is seeing red ink.

And seriously, besides some insanely vague and very much far off hope of some kinda crazy awesome AMD/ATI combined platform (seriously...nothing actually impressive could possibly be made in the next 2-3 years, these things take forever to design) everything that's on AMD's horizon right now doesn't really look like it's going to compete with Intel at all. And it's not like Intel is just sitting around twiddling their thumbs, they're moving to 45nm while AMD will be where? Nobody else is even close to launching 45nm, and Intel is doing it THIS YEAR.

And 45nm doesn't just bring higher speeds, it brings higher profit margins. More chips per wafer=even better profitability while AMD struggles to play catchup on both the CPU design front and the process front. And maybe getting some decent high speed memory support going too.

 

[gOJDO]

@TekDemon
I agree with you. Both Intel and AMD care ONLY about profit. AMD is in the red now and from their point of view at their situation, exactly they are a sinking ship. From customers point of view, Intel & AMD price war is the best that could happen to CPU industry. Faster CPUs for less money. We can only wish this to happen between graphics chips and RAM manifacturers.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Intel sells 3GHz C2D's now? News to me.

Welcome to 2006.

Really? What is the SKU or part number? Everything I can find all top out at 2.93GHZ != 3GHz. Please help bring me up to speed on 2006.

 

[gOJDO]

Intel Xeon 5160 is a 3GHz Core2 Duo CPU (Woodcrest) with a 4MB of L2.
It is listed on Intel site: http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/chart/xeon.htm
It is available everywhere since C2D was released, for example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819117092

 

[Arcada]

Originally posted by: Hulk

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Intel ups server share, but AMD wins in PCs

AMD made 4-5% gains in laptop and desktop market share in Q4 2006. They have the largest segment of the market (budget laptops/desktops) locked up.

Their lack of quad-core offerings is certainly hurting them in the server market. The bleeding will only slow down when they launch the K8L, but they'll have to win back some customers that converted to Intel. In the 8-way server market, they shouldn't have a problem, since it has already been shown that AMD scales better than Intel in that environment.

AMDs share of the notebook market should increase when the fruits of their merger with ATI come to market. AMD/ATI will offer better performance per watt than Intel/Intel in the huge integrated graphics market for notebook computers, probably at a better price too.

I hope this quiets down some of the newbies who pop into every thread and cry of AMDs swift demise. I personally own X2 and C2D systems, so I'm only a fanboy of competition bringing about innovation.

You almost convinced me except for one bit of reality. The fact that C2D crushes all AMD chips. But I do hope AMD hangs in there. But then again if your signature is any indication you are not interested in any reality but the one you conjure up.

LOL Agreed! I cant stand his sig.
Like hes celebrating his country failing.. GLAD theres no WMDs? Wow.
Yes, lots of people have died. Thats... "priceless".

Some people have just horrid character.

Originally posted by: Beachboy
Your blind devotion to AMD has been duly noted. Keep following bandwagons... down with America, up with Sheehan and Chavez!!! :laugh:

LOL
I also tire of this sort with no moral compass just a penchant for falling for political party lines. Its a serious situation, not something to be used for political gain as his signature suggests.
Great, mistakes were made and people died... thats um.."priceless". :disgust:

Its great this anti-American got pwned on both AMD and his abhorent views. :beer:

 

[TekDemon]

Now now, let's not bring politics into an AMD vs Intel flame war lol

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: TekDemon
Now now, let's not bring politics into an AMD vs Intel flame war lol

Agreed, Arcada and BeachBoy have already suffered enough after the November elections.

Originally posted by: Arcada
Like hes celebrating his country failing.. GLAD theres no WMDs? Wow.
Yes, lots of people have died. Thats... "priceless".

Yes, I am glad our enemies didn't possess WMDs. I'm guessing you wanted Saddam to have warehouses full of the stuff?

The "priceless" part is that 3,000+ soldiers are pushing up daisies and all we have to show for it is a sandbox full of black gold. Again, let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you ate every juicy turd GWB laid out in 2003 about Iraqi WMDs.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: gOJDO
Intel Xeon 5160 is a 3GHz Core2 Duo CPU (Woodcrest) with a 4MB of L2.
It is listed on Intel site: http://www.intel.com/products/processor_number/chart/xeon.htm
It is available everywhere since C2D was released, for example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819117092

It's also Socket 771 and requires a dual-socket server/workstation board with FB-DIMM memory.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: TekDemon

Text

The first way AMD is going to pull ahead, sometimes, is the chip architecture. AMD will have a quad core part, Intel will not. This is not really a big deal. On one core, AMD will lose most benchmarks, on two cores, it will pull a little closer in, and at four cores, will probably win many more benchmarks. This is for 1S systems.

On 2S, the same holds true, but AMD starts out in a better position. 2S 2C will be an Intel win, 2S 4C will probably be very close, and 2S 4C will be a win for AMD in most cases. The platform and the bus come into play here, and Intel has made admirable gains to take the creaky old P4 bus and twist it into something that can hold it's own.

On 4S systems, well, it is still an AMD clean kill, be it now or after Barcelona. Four way systems are AMD's playground, and until Tigerton/Clarksboro come on line in Q3, it will stay that way. This all assumes one big "if" in the year, if Barcelona comes out on time, on target, and in volume. We can't understate how important this is. If AMD fails here, it is time to pack up and go home.

Looks like a battle in the server market for 2007, not an all-out win for Intel as you would like to imagine.

And share of the server market is AMD's to lose. It's a lot harder to gain customers than to lose them.

 

[Arcada]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The "priceless" part is that 3,000+ soldiers are pushing up daisies and all we have to show for it is a sandbox full of black gold. Again, let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you ate every juicy turd GWB laid out in 2003 about Iraqi WMDs.

Hear hear! Your hindsight is 20/20. Good show nostadomus!!
Most "priceless" indeed!!!! I'm overjoyed you get off on that thought to push your petty political motives!


Your ability to reason is a disgrace to an apes intelligence. Your hatred for your nation is apparant.





And you are scum.

 

[StopSign]

What's wrong with hating your country? Just because you're a citizen doesn't mean you must support the politics. In the end who's paying the government salaries?

 

[simsalabim24]

I miss Cyrix, they made AMD honest lol!

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: simsalabim24
I miss Cyrix, they made AMD honest lol!

How so? They certainly didn't teach them how to make an FPU!

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

How so? They certainly didn't teach them how to make an FPU!

Thankfully.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Arcada

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The "priceless" part is that 3,000+ soldiers are pushing up daisies and all we have to show for it is a sandbox full of black gold. Again, let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you ate every juicy turd GWB laid out in 2003 about Iraqi WMDs.

Hear hear! Your hindsight is 20/20. Good show nostadomus!!
Most "priceless" indeed!!!! I'm overjoyed you get off on that thought to push your petty political motives!


Your ability to reason is a disgrace to an apes intelligence. Your hatred for your nation is apparant.





And you are scum.

Awwww

 

[TekDemon]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: TekDemon

Text

The first way AMD is going to pull ahead, sometimes, is the chip architecture. AMD will have a quad core part, Intel will not. This is not really a big deal. On one core, AMD will lose most benchmarks, on two cores, it will pull a little closer in, and at four cores, will probably win many more benchmarks. This is for 1S systems.

On 2S, the same holds true, but AMD starts out in a better position. 2S 2C will be an Intel win, 2S 4C will probably be very close, and 2S 4C will be a win for AMD in most cases. The platform and the bus come into play here, and Intel has made admirable gains to take the creaky old P4 bus and twist it into something that can hold it's own.

On 4S systems, well, it is still an AMD clean kill, be it now or after Barcelona. Four way systems are AMD's playground, and until Tigerton/Clarksboro come on line in Q3, it will stay that way. This all assumes one big "if" in the year, if Barcelona comes out on time, on target, and in volume. We can't understate how important this is. If AMD fails here, it is time to pack up and go home.

Looks like a battle in the server market for 2007, not an all-out win for Intel as you would like to imagine.

And share of the server market is AMD's to lose. It's a lot harder to gain customers than to lose them.

I'm not sure why that article states intel has no quad core server part...do they just mean that the intel architecture isn't really great for quad cores?

It might be a battle...but I'd rather be the company who's gunning for share with new tech than the one trying to defend turf without any real new tech

And even the article points out that later in the year the newer intel parts will make it really painful for AMD.

Maybe it's not a super rosy picture for intel but it's a horrible picture for AMD lol.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: TekDemon
Maybe it's not a super rosy picture for intel but it's a horrible picture for AMD lol.

LOL! :roll: