Is a zero tolerance law unconstitutional?
- Thread starter Quasmo
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Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
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K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
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I think he means the concept in general where latitude for discretion is removed from law enforcement and the justice system.
Edit: And to the op no I don't think they are unconstitutional (though typically a bad idea). Any number of cases could bring such laws before the SC and they would become subject to judicial review.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
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My point is that there really are no "zero tolerance" laws that I'm aware of, in the sense that they would mandate prosecution or a particular sentence. In the Air Force, for example, we had a zero-tolerance drug policy - AF members who test positive for drugs are ALWAYS kicked out, and, if the drug is anything but pot, are court-martialed. This is constitutional in that, even to the extent they are court-martialed, there is no guarantee that they'll be convicted, much less receive any particular sentence. Similarly, if a community has a zero-tolerance policy regarding DUI, that alone doesn't mean people will necessarily be convicted and jailed.
Dunno but I was watching Cops the other day and they picked up a guy for having a dime bag of pot, and the cop was explaining to the guy that any amount of weed, no matter how small, is considered a felony in Nevada, they have a zero-tolerance for drugs of any kind.
I thought this was pretty severe for the seediest state in the union.
I thought this was pretty severe for the seediest state in the union.
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
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Zero-intelligence policies are always a bad idea. Oops, I mean, zero-tolerance policies. There has never been a case without exceptions. If you disallow the exceptions, you are doing yourself and others a big disfavor.
But, I know of zero-tolerance schools and their stupid policies, but what are some zero-tolerance laws?
But, I know of zero-tolerance schools and their stupid policies, but what are some zero-tolerance laws?
- Jul 7, 2004
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Recently the court case against a 17yr old who had consentual sex with a 15 year old was sentanced to 5 years in prison, it was a mandatory sentance, the judge and the girl didn't even want him to go to jail, but because he was convicted guilty of the crime it was mandatory that he go to jail.
Zero tolerance could mean a lot of things, but in general if you mean a mandated sentence for a crime then yes, zero tolerance is unconstitutional.
The Supreme Court recently gave a pair of opinions in 2005 overturning federal sentencing guidelines/mandatory minimums, and made them merely advisory instead of binding.
The Supreme Court recently gave a pair of opinions in 2005 overturning federal sentencing guidelines/mandatory minimums, and made them merely advisory instead of binding.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
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Certainly mandatory sentencing guidelines can create constitutional issues. Actually I have a particular interest in this arena in that my mother was a trial-court judge for 23 years, and is now the Executive Director of our state Criminal Sentencing Guidelines Commission (and hence involved on the legislative side of creating sentencing guidelines). She also testified before Congress a few times when they were reformulating the federal sentencing guidelines in 2005.
The Supreme Court actually has addressed this issue relatively recently, in Blakely v. Washington, which had the effect of invalidating many existing sentencing guidelines as unconstitutional, but that related more to the use of criminal history in sentencing than to the issue of the constitutionality of mandatory minimums.
Essentially, the legislature has the right to implement laws that affect court administration - this alone isn't unconstitutional - and can also create mandatory minimum sentences. This proposition has been extensively addressed by appellate courts and found to be constitutional.
Zero tolerance policies are a product of the constant litigation that happens in this country when authority figures attempt to handle specific situations based on their unique set of circumstances. They enact these policies in order to cover their ass when the vultures, ie lawyers, are cosntantly hovering overhead. This is one of the reasons why our public schools suck.
A zero tolerance law does not mean you don't still get a fair trial and have to be proven guilty. It just means if convicted of the crime you are accused of committing in a court of law, your sentence will pretty much be guaranteed to be whatever the penalty associated with said "zero tolerance" law may be. It does NOT bypass the judicial process because you still have to have a trial and be found guilty. Typically the penalties for breaking zero tolerance laws are pretty stiff for what should be obvious reasons. They don't want people thinking of doing it again.
BoomerD
No Lifer
- Feb 26, 2006
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I have no tolerance for "special circumstances"...
Seriously, if a state decides to establish a "zero-tolerance" law, it basically only means that anyone caught breaking that law will be charged with the crime. I see nothing wrong with that. So you want the cops to have the option of not charging murderers or rapists? Personally, I think those are crimes that zero-tolerance laws should be covering...same with hard-drugs like cocaine/crack, meth/ice, and heroin. There is NO reason for tolerating those kinds of drugs nor the crimes that accompany them in society. (murder, robbery, burglary, assaults, etc.)
Here in Kahleeforneeya, the CHP will often establish a "no tolerance" policy over holiday weekends...ANYONE caught violating traffic laws will be cited, and anyone violating DUI laws gets charged. No leeway, no "Special Circumstances, no exceptions, and no warnings.
Seriously, if a state decides to establish a "zero-tolerance" law, it basically only means that anyone caught breaking that law will be charged with the crime. I see nothing wrong with that. So you want the cops to have the option of not charging murderers or rapists? Personally, I think those are crimes that zero-tolerance laws should be covering...same with hard-drugs like cocaine/crack, meth/ice, and heroin. There is NO reason for tolerating those kinds of drugs nor the crimes that accompany them in society. (murder, robbery, burglary, assaults, etc.)
Here in Kahleeforneeya, the CHP will often establish a "no tolerance" policy over holiday weekends...ANYONE caught violating traffic laws will be cited, and anyone violating DUI laws gets charged. No leeway, no "Special Circumstances, no exceptions, and no warnings.
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
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The legislature changed the law to get him out of jail. It is the judicial system which has denied justice in this case by saying the legislature's new law cannot be applied to him.
It is the duty of the people of that state to tell that judge to go **** himself and to restore justice by force.
*edit
It was 10 years in jail for his girl giving him oral. He has already been in jail for two years.
It's not the judiciary's fault at all. For laws to apply retroactively they have to have a provision in the law that states that... the law in this case did not. In fact, when they tried to put a law through the legislature that WOULD have freed this kid, it was defeated.
Luckily, the judiciary HAS come to the rescue in this case as shown here., but the DA is furiously fighting to keep him in jail for another 3 years. I have a feeling like he will be freed sooner rather then later however considering the public outcry over this.
The legislature changed the law to get him out of jail.
It is the judicial system which has denied justice in this case by saying the legislature's new law cannot be applied to him.
It is the duty of the people of that state to tell that judge to go **** himself and to restore justice by force.
*edit
It was 10 years in jail for his girl giving him oral. He has already been in jail for two years.[/quote]
I can speak personally about that case as it is a battle against the state itself not just specifically the judicial system or legislature.
The Attorney General is under the control of the Governor but this guy has been a Rogue since he got in Office. He would take orders from the either a Democrat or Republican Governor and both of those Governors seem to have no recourse against the AG for going against them. So it seems while the legislature tried to correct the wrong issue, it is the AG's office that needed a re-write of it's specific power.
The AG would never admit he is wrong. The most he will do is a easy way out for his office at the expense of the people he has wronged so he doesn't have to admit he was wrong. He came up with the "First Offender" get out of the doghouse card. But he makes you stand up in front of the Judge and say you are guilty to get that card even if you are not guilty.
That is why that 17 yr old is sitting in jail.
He is a hero.
He decided that he can afford those years in prison rather than ever admit guilt to something he was not guilty of.
He is the most prolific example of how wrong the United States has gone wrong.
I hope I get a chance to meet him someday.
MadRat
Lifer
- Oct 14, 1999
- 11,999
- 307
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The Supreme Court has ruled that the judicial branch cannot be given mandatory guidelines for sentencing if such guidelines ignore either minimums or maximums or both. But they have also ruled that the sentencing guidelines issued can be used as a water standard of fairness when in comes to sentencing, thereby allowing appeals based on sentencing fairness grounds to be rejected if the sentence was within the guidelines.
- Oct 30, 2000
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FallenHero
Diamond Member
- Jan 2, 2006
- 5,659
- 0
- 0
Zero tolerance as it related to DUI measures and summary suspensions of licenses is civil law/administrative in nature. Driving is not a right, its a privilege.
As for other crimes such as drugs and crap... you still have to be convicted.
As for other crimes such as drugs and crap... you still have to be convicted.
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