is a single 140mm rad enough to cool...

[schwett]

a 3930k and a gtx770 with a full block, both at stock speeds?

i'm looking to do my first custom loop, but need to keep it very compact to suit the case. the setup i am thinking about is the following:

ek combo pump/reservoir in a 5.25" bay
a single 140mm rad:
...black ice gtx gen two extreme 140mm
...ek coolstream xtc 140mm
...xspc ex140
cpu waterblock for lga2011:
...xspc raystorm
...ek supremacy clean csq
full waterblock for gtx770:
...xspc razor
...ek ek-fc770

there would be a single 140mm fan on the rad probably working as an intake in push configuration (grill on case -> fan -> rad -> inside of case), a pair of 120s for exhaust from the interior of the case, and a pair of 80s (yes 80s heh) to bring additional cool air into the case for the non liquid cooled components like the vrm, storage, ram, etc.

the only part i'm really worried about is the rad. is a single 140 enough? i could add another single 120mm at a different part of the loop if that would help, but at the cost of reducing airflow for the rest of the case.

 

[Tweakin]

a 3930k and a gtx770 with a full block, both at stock speeds?

i'm looking to do my first custom loop, but need to keep it very compact to suit the case. the setup i am thinking about is the following:

ek combo pump/reservoir in a 5.25" bay
a single 140mm rad:
...black ice gtx gen two extreme 140mm
...ek coolstream xtc 140mm
...xspc ex140
cpu waterblock for lga2011:
...xspc raystorm
...ek supremacy clean csq
full waterblock for gtx770:
...xspc razor
...ek ek-fc770

there would be a single 140mm fan on the rad probably working as an intake in push configuration (grill on case -> fan -> rad -> inside of case), a pair of 120s for exhaust from the interior of the case, and a pair of 80s (yes 80s heh) to bring additional cool air into the case for the non liquid cooled components like the vrm, storage, ram, etc.

the only part i'm really worried about is the rad. is a single 140 enough? i could add another single 120mm at a different part of the loop if that would help, but at the cost of reducing airflow for the rest of the case.

Nope. If your not pushing your system, you might be able to get by with a single 360mm rad, but anything short of that and your temps will be on the high side, and recovery will be long. I run a 420 and a 240 on my test bench, which is currently thrashing my new i5-4670k and dual 760's, just so you have an idea.

One thing to remember, as rad space goes down fan rpm must go up to keep the rad cooled, and with that comes more noise...not as bad as a screeming 770 reference fan, but add the pump and some 2krpm fans and it's going to be noisy.

Finally, you will need a res and make sure to place it before the pump inlet...never let your pump run dry! You might be able to find some good deals in the FS forum for the parts you need to save some money...just a thought.

 

[schwett]

hmmmmm. I was afraid of that.

The single 140mm rad+fan on my corsair h90 cools the cup well enough - I've never seen it throttle and it stays below 70 or so even with the gpu also loaded. I was hoping a better rad - albeit the same frontal area - would be able to cool the CPU and gpu. is there any way to calculate this based on flow rates or heat exchange rates?

why would I need another reservoir in addition to the EK combo unit?

 

[Z15CAM]

Suggest you look into Coolgate Radiators at PerformancePC site - What I really like about them is that they have a bottom Drain PLUG in which you can drain and fill loops without having to purge air simply by drilling a hole in your case to access the Plug.

I use a Turkey Baster.

is a single 140mm rad enough to cool

Yes for One Item.

 

[schwett]

so, if I have to use a 140.1 and a 120.1, would I be better off running
them in series (more pressure drop?) or in parallel (more piping and connections.) one would be at the top of the case and one would
be at the bottom....

 

[Tweakin]

so, if I have to use a 140.1 and a 120.1, would I be better off running
them in series (more pressure drop?) or in parallel (more piping and connections.) one would be at the top of the case and one would
be at the bottom....

If they are slim rads, i.e. 30mm or so then two of them will cause some additional restriction. However, this is not enough to worry about as long as you don't add 14 90 degree fittings in your system. A 35x would be fine for pushing the fluids through the system.

I will also say that between the two, I would go with a 120.1 as the fan selection is much better when it comes to static pressure. IMHO

edit: And go in series to keep the flow rate up above 1.5gph.

 

[schwett]

here's a diagram of what I'm thinking about. not sure it's going to work. would mostly be for fun, but ideally it would be quieter than the current setup under GPU load.

the one on the right is the two rads in series. the top mount will really only work for a 140, and although there are two 120mm fans at the bottom there's no way a 120.2 rad will fit. there are obstructions at both ends - i think the only way to do it will be with the end tank in the middle, which will block a little bit of the leftmost 120mm fan.

obviously this case was not designed for water cooling.

 

[dma0991]

obviously this case was not designed for water cooling.

From the first post till now, I have no clue as to what case that you'll be using. The information seems trivial, but it can make a difference in knowing the best solution for this matter. Your build ain't what I consider to be compact.

If you're going with the left setup, you're either running a fan fast enough for takeoff or have problems keeping the temps at a comfortable level. You need sufficient radiator space to allow many slower fans to get the temps and noise level you'd expect from watercooling.

Its better to not do it if you have to with a single 140mm. Its not beneficial in any way to temps or noise, and costs too much when air cooling does the same for no extra charge.

Now this is what compact should be. That build is using a very thick Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 120mm radiator and it barely keeps up with its hardware, which is less than what you're putting in. To accomplish what you're doing is not feasible without compromises (loud Delta fans).

 

[schwett]

sorry about that! it's a rosewill mx-2.

I'm definitely willing to make compromises - I don't plan to OC, don't mind higher temps than what most seem to target, and don't mind spending more $)$ if it helps.

but I do really like the case - so switching that isn't an option - and I'd like it to be quieter under load than it is currently. unrealistic?

 

[guskline]

sorry about that! it's a rosewill mx-2.

I'm definitely willing to make compromises - I don't plan to OC, don't mind higher temps than what most seem to target, and don't mind spending more $)$ if it helps.

but I do really like the case - so switching that isn't an option - and I'd like it to be quieter under load than it is currently. unrealistic?

Yes unrealistic. Please go to MartinLiquidlab.org for the answers

 

[Tweakin]

here's a diagram of what I'm thinking about. not sure it's going to work. would mostly be for fun, but ideally it would be quieter than the current setup under GPU load.

the one on the right is the two rads in series. the top mount will really only work for a 140, and although there are two 120mm fans at the bottom there's no way a 120.2 rad will fit. there are obstructions at both ends - i think the only way to do it will be with the end tank in the middle, which will block a little bit of the leftmost 120mm fan.

obviously this case was not designed for water cooling.

You can't add a 240 rad to the bottom of the case?

 

[dma0991]

but I do really like the case - so switching that isn't an option - and I'd like it to be quieter under load than it is currently. unrealistic?

That's a really nice case, I understand why you really like this case but unfortunately it is not watercooling friendly. The Silverstone TJ07 has a similar design to the Rosewill MX2, albeit bulkier and larger, but it is a very popular watercooling case.

Your choices are :
1. Stick with air cooling, but with beefier and quieter heatsink for CPU and GPU.
2. Chop up the case slightly to mount a thick 120/240mm at the bottom.
3. Switch to a larger case, Silverstone TJ07 as suggested.
4.

Spoiler

Be damned what others say! Its my money, I'll do whatever I want!

 

[schwett]

You can't add a 240 rad to the bottom of the case?

not without some serious surgery. there's a steel frame which has the PSU in it and also supports the drive bays that is mounted about 1/4" from the edge of the front 120mm fan, and sits about 1/8" lower than the top of the fan. so the end tank of the radiator would intersect with both the sides of the frame and the bottom.

there's also a standard power extension connector that runs from the socket on the outside to the internally mounted PSU that's totally in the way. that could probably be dealt with.

all in all, i don't really want to cut the case up that much.

That's a really nice case, I understand why you really like this case but unfortunately it is not watercooling friendly. The Silverstone TJ07 has a similar design to the Rosewill MX2, albeit bulkier and larger, but it is a very popular watercooling case.

Your choices are :
1. Stick with air cooling, but with beefier and quieter heatsink for CPU and GPU.
2. Chop up the case slightly to mount a thick 120/240mm at the bottom.
3. Switch to a larger case, Silverstone TJ07 as suggested.
4.

Spoiler

Be damned what others say! Its my money, I'll do whatever I want!

i'll probably go with #4. lol.

#1 is interesting, but i actually don't think the standard 150mm high tower style CPU coolers fit. i haven't seen any better GPU cooling setups. any suggestions there?

the TJ07 is ok, but it just doesn't have that super clean look. too many panels and ridges and so on.



Please Avoid double posting... Just edit your original thread and add onto it.
I have fixed your double post.
Double posting makes the thread much longer then it should be.

Cases and Cooling Aigo.

 

[dma0991]

#1 is interesting, but i actually don't think the standard 150mm high tower style CPU coolers fit. i haven't seen any better GPU cooling setups. any suggestions there?

Then do a mixture of CPU watercooling with an AIO and get a better air cooler from Arctic Cooling. YMMV on the Arctic Cooling as it does offer an improvement from using a stock blower heatsink but not substantial if coming from heatsinks such as the MSI TwinFrozr II/III/IV, Asus DirectCU II or similar.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Then do a mixture of CPU watercooling with an AIO and get a better air cooler from Arctic Cooling. YMMV on the Arctic Cooling as it does offer an improvement from using a stock blower heatsink but not substantial if coming from heatsinks such as the MSI TwinFrozr II/III/IV, Asus DirectCU II or similar.

I'd go the opposite direction and water-cool the GPU. Air cooled GPU's are more noisy under load. I use a cooler master seidon closed loop to keep an OC'd 7950 under 60C. A single 120mm fan set to 800rpm on the radiator keeps it cool.

At stock speeds a 3930k should be easy to cool with air. I'm cooling a 3570k OC'd to 4.4 with a dinky Xigmatek Loki. The two 92mm fans are set to stay under 1200rpm.

The whole system can barely be heard and never even comes close to overheating even when I do benchmarking.

 

[schwett]

I'd go the opposite direction and water-cool the GPU. Air cooled GPU's are more noisy under load. I use a cooler master seidon closed loop to keep an OC'd 7950 under 60C. A single 120mm fan set to 800rpm on the radiator keeps it cool.

At stock speeds a 3930k should be easy to cool with air. I'm cooling a 3570k OC'd to 4.4 with a dinky Xigmatek Loki. The two 92mm fans are set to stay under 1200rpm.

The whole system can barely be heard and never even comes close to overheating even when I do benchmarking.

very interesting! I wonder if I should try the nzxt bracket to adapt the CPU AIO to GPU use.

thanks for the idea/input. i'll check it out.

 

[Z15CAM]

should try the nzxt bracket to adapt the CPU AIO to GPU use.

No way - You can't cool the VRM's properly and can't OC the RAM.

 

[lehtv]

No way - You can't cool the VRM's properly and can't OC the RAM.

Do you even read, bro? He's said several times he intends to run at stock speeds.

 

[Z15CAM]

BS - There is no way a converted AIO CPU Cooler will effectively cool the VRM's and vRAM on a VGA card. Granted you effectively cool the GPU better then an the OEM Air Cooler but the OEM Cooler cools the VRM's better.

If have to pump a +0.162mV Off-Set VDDC through Elpida "JUNK" to reach 1500Mhz.

Forget it. You go NoWhere OC'g.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

BS - There is no way a converted AIO CPU Cooler will effectively cool the VRM's and vRAM on a VGA card. Granted you effectively cool the GPU better then an the OEM Air Cooler but the OEM Cooler cools the VRM's better.

If have to pump a +0.162mV Off-Set VDDC through Elpida "JUNK" to reach 1500Mhz.

Forget it. You go NoWhere OC'g.

Yeah right. That's why I can run my 7950 at nearly 1200 on the GPU clock and STILL have cooler vram than the stock fan cooler. You don't know what your talking about.

 

[Z15CAM]

A 7950 is not Hawaii that will run easily at 1250-1500 with a proper WB like an EK or XSPC focusing on cooling the VRM's considering the majority of 290/X's come with Crappy Elpida Ram.

Compared to either Samsung or Hynix vRam, Elpida requires a lot of voltage which over heats the VRM's to reach 1500Mhz's and considered a fair OC for Hawaii. The GPU can do near 1300 Mhz's but it doesn't get near as Hot as the VRM's. Cooling the Hawaii GPU is secondary compared to focusing on cooling the VRM's.

That is if you intend to OC Hawaii.

About the Maximum a Ref or AIB Hawaii can do is 1150 x 1300 and no doubt will throttle. Yes the AIB solutions are quieter but do not offer better OC'g then what the Reference Card can do.

A Samsung or Hynix Hawaii card can do 1280x1600 under water. Elpida limits about 50Mhz on the GPU and at least 100mhz on the vRam all because the VRM's can't handle the higher voltage required to run Crappy Elpida modules at a descent speed.

Running a 1000x1250 card at either 1230x1500 or 1280x1600 with better Ram is by no means a failure in OC'g Hawaii but you have to focus on cooling the VRM's.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

That is if you intend to OC Hawaii.

.

The OP's card is a gtx 770. It has better passive VRM cooling than my 7950. My point being the OP would be fine using nzxt/Dwood bracket and closed loop cooling even if he wanted to overclock his 770.

 

[schwett]

thanks to everyone for the input. i think the scheme i have in mind will provide reasonable cooling to the other components of the card - there will be a fan pointed right at it, and the pair of small exhaust fans on the other side.

however, my preference is still for a full waterblock on the card and the cpu. i may just go ahead and try it and see what happens. if the temps are too high or the fan on the rad too noisy/fast, i'll either add another radiator at the bottom, take the CPU out of the loop, or do that and switch to only partial cooling of the GPU per the last few comments.

has anyone used one of the EK or Koolance or XS single bay pump/reservoir combos? it seems like there's a pretty wide variation in price based on pump configuration.