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is a degree in computer IT still worth anything?

T2urtle

T2urtle

Diamond Member
I've attempted to apply for a couple of IT jobs here and there. They all seem to ask if i had a B.S in computers or any certifiable courses, well my answer was always no. I have a A.S. in automotive technology only. I would like to get a job in some type of tech support either repairing computers on-site or over the phone type of stuff.

I'm sure there are some people here who do hiring for IT positions, what would be better for a entry-level computer tech support... a A.S/B.S in computer IT or A+ certs and other computer related certs.

from what i seen and heard first hand from people, the company teaches you the way they want you to do tech-support. So in a sense schooling is just to get you a general idea/understanding. Once you get the job, you learn what they want you to learn and that is it.
 
Join the military and get contracted for an IT related field and use that time to gain experience in IT and your certifications. Then get out and get a decent job in the IT field with a built up resume and real certs.
 
For anything other than first level help desk or tape monkey jobs, you really need at least a couple years worth of computer training to be useful.

Trust me... I've tried teaching non-technical people how do things like write SQL statements or edit files in vi. It wasn't pretty, since they didn't understand any of the basics needed to do more advanced tasks.
 
ultimatebob said:
For anything other than first level help desk or tape monkey jobs, you really need at least a couple years worth of computer training to be useful.

Trust me... I've tried teaching non-technical people how do things like write SQL statements or edit files in vi. It wasn't pretty, since they didn't understand any of the basics needed to do more advanced tasks.
Click to expand...

This.
 
ultimatebob said:
For anything other than first level help desk or tape monkey jobs, you really need at least a couple years worth of computer training to be useful.

Trust me... I've tried teaching non-technical people how do things like write SQL statements or edit files in vi. It wasn't pretty, since they didn't understand any of the basics needed to do more advanced tasks.
Click to expand...

Uhg. I've no formal schooling, and god knows *how many times* I've tried to teach coworkers how to write SQL statements... or use any CLI, much less vi. (Unnecessary bias)--.
 
I'm doing a degree in networking as we speak, but I've got experience in a couple of networking jobs (one of which I still hold) and I also have another degree in something irellevant, I would say if you want to learn the basics and show that you know it, a degree is a great way, but I haven't really learnt anything new in this first year...
 
ultimatebob said:
For anything other than first level help desk or tape monkey jobs, you really need at least a couple years worth of computer training to be useful.

Trust me... I've tried teaching non-technical people how do things like write SQL statements or edit files in vi. It wasn't pretty, since they didn't understand any of the basics needed to do more advanced tasks.
Click to expand...

GeekDrew said:
Uhg. I've no formal schooling, and god knows *how many times* I've tried to teach coworkers how to write SQL statements... or use any CLI, much less vi. (Unnecessary bias)--.
Click to expand...

I teach people like you guys how to write SQL statements, CORRECTLY.

And I'm 100% in agreement with you both.
 
OP, most companies won't even consider you if you don't have a B.S. in the field or several years experience. Heck, a lot of them want a B.S. + a couple years. Go back to school, you'll be glad you did.
 
They keep running news stories about how badly companies in the bay area need engineers in the computer industry.

I'm sure there are a bunch of different types that are in high demand, but I think engineering is in much greater demand than "computer science" types of degrees. (although, if you're in an area that has lots of high-tech industry, those are probably still in high demand.)
 
BoomerD said:
They keep running news stories about how badly companies in the bay area need engineers in the computer industry.

I'm sure there are a bunch of different types that are in high demand, but I think engineering is in much greater demand than "computer science" types of degrees. (although, if you're in an area that has lots of high-tech industry, those are probably still in high demand.)
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Do they REALLY need more engineers, or are they just using it as an excuse to bring in more H1B's?

My hunch is that they would have no problem attracting people from the midwest if they offered relocation money, but nobody seems to DO that anymore.
 
GlacierFreeze said:
OP, most companies won't even consider you if you don't have a B.S. in the field or several years experience. Heck, a lot of them want a B.S. + a couple years. Go back to school, you'll be glad you did.
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some helpdesks jobs will train you to read the manual without requiring much (if anything) in the way of education or experience...but if you dont use that time to get both its not going to do much good on a resume. people who have both and need entry level work have a hard time of it around here right now, nevermind someone with no experience or education.
 
Nintendesert said:
Join the military and get contracted for an IT related field and use that time to gain experience in IT and your certifications. Then get out and get a decent job in the IT field with a built up resume and real certs.
Click to expand...

I'd add a stipulation to that: I'd hope you would have a desire to serve your country....most of the people I come across that join the military just for money/experience are absolutely worthless dirtbags that everyone else in the unit loves to hate since they bitch and moan all the time.
 
ultimatebob said:
Do they REALLY need more engineers, or are they just using it as an excuse to bring in more H1B's?

My hunch is that they would have no problem attracting people from the midwest if they offered relocation money, but nobody seems to DO that anymore.
Click to expand...

Apparently, according to the story the other day, H1B's have been severely curtailed because of the high unemployment rate here.

I certainly hope so...bringing in foreign workers when there are so many Americans out of work should be illegal as hell.

They interviewed a couple of CEO's and owners of companies who said that all the best talent was already taken (locally) so all they could do was to steal it from other companies.
 
Andrew111 said:
I'd add a stipulation to that: I'd hope you would have a desire to serve your country....most of the people I come across that join the military just for money/experience are absolutely worthless dirtbags that everyone else in the unit loves to hate since they bitch and moan all the time.
Click to expand...

"What was that?"
"A rocket hit the FOB."
"Is everyone ok?"
"Yeah, I think everyone's fine."
"... even Johnson?"
"...yeah."
"Fuck."
 
T2urtle said:
I've attempted to apply for a couple of IT jobs here and there. They all seem to ask if i had a B.S in computers or any certifiable courses, well my answer was always no. I have a A.S. in automotive technology only. I would like to get a job in some type of tech support either repairing computers on-site or over the phone type of stuff.

I'm sure there are some people here who do hiring for IT positions, what would be better for a entry-level computer tech support... a A.S/B.S in computer IT or A+ certs and other computer related certs.

from what i seen and heard first hand from people, the company teaches you the way they want you to do tech-support. So in a sense schooling is just to get you a general idea/understanding. Once you get the job, you learn what they want you to learn and that is it.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the current job market companies can demand a BS degree, certifications and experience. When I got into the business in 1999 their really wasn't BS degree for IT Infrastructure side. There was Computer Science degree's but that was all about programming which isn't what I do. Know their is specific IT related degree's for network, servers etc. I know that when we hire for Desktop Analyst we look favorably on someone who has a Bachelors no matter what field they have it in. Good luck, I know that things are brutal out there right now.
 
things are extremely brutal right now. i'm one without a degree. I have a job which is better then most but its not going to be my career. It really doesn't matter to me what job i get in the future, i do want it to be in the IT field. I went to a couple of interviews and they didn't mind that i didn't have experience because they said they can teach me the "right way" the way they want things done, gave me an assessment test which i passed but not with flying colors. Didn't get the job because they hired someone with a B.S. in art or flim, something silly but fact of the matter is he got it and i didn't.

So now i want to better myself... Any entry level stuff to get my foot in the door will be prefect so i can still go to school at night and move on up in terms of certs and degrees.
 
T2urtle said:
I'm sure there are some people here who do hiring for IT positions, what would be better for a entry-level computer tech support... a A.S/B.S in computer IT or A+ certs and other computer related certs.
Click to expand...

I do hiring for an IT outsourcing firm, and to answer your specific question, certs are more valuable to me. They signal that you have some degree of job-specific knowledge, and many vendor partnerships (e.g. Microsoft, HP, Dell, Cisco, VMware, etc.) require maintaining a certain minimum number of certified technicians on staff. In contrast, I've found no correlation between holding a degree and achieving success in a technical position; indeed, some of my best guys have only a high school or community college education.

However, to truly answer your question, I doubt either certs or a degree will get you far. In this economy, my staffing budget is as tight as can be. I've had to make do with the staff I have, and the only time I've been able to bring on somebody new is when we've become so completely overwhelmed that we risk losing clients due to delayed response times. Since I need the new hire to be productive immediately, I've had to limit my candidate search to people that have relevant experience and credentials, and I don't see that changing for quite some time :'(

If you want to break into the IT industry, your best bet would be to learn the latest technology so you can get your foot in the door as the people that haven't kept their skills up to date fall by the wayside. Since you interest seems to be deskside maintenance/repair, I'd suggest studying up on Windows 7. Microsoft offers two MCITP certifications for Windows 7 that cover Windows 7 in quite a bit of detail, and they'll probably also have a reasonably-priced self-study guide that you can use to train yourself. You'll also want to take a look at some of the break/fix certifications that Dell and HP offer, as on top of training you on their equipment, both Dell and HP allow their certified techs to bypass support drones and order replacement parts directly. Lastly, a CompTIA Network+ will show basic competency in computer networking, and a CompTIA A+ will also pad your resume a bit.

With that said, I'll be brutally honest: getting an IT position with no experience is going to be very difficult. If you already have a decent-paying job, I'd strongly recommend holding on to it for the next few years, even if you're looking to change industries. You can always take night classes or do self-study on your own time.
 
The question is if a degree is worth anything to you. If it will help you to get a better job. The answer is always yes, IMO anyway.

You mention a career without a degree and without certifiable skills. IMO, a person does not have a career without a degree or certifiable skills. In such a situation, all a person has is a temporary job for as long as the employer is being nice to you.

Unless you earn a strong college degree, you will still need to obtain certifications. IMO, you might as well work for the certifications. If you wanted the college degree, you would not be asking about the difference between a degree or certifications. You would just do it.

Go visit a community college career counselor at a place that also provides the tech schooling for certifications and ask them for help. That will get you off your butt and into school. Once you see the girls walking down the halls, you will be ready to sign up for your classes.

The military is also a strong option, if it suits your interests. I did it and so have many others. Military benefits often pay for school. Check with your community college's financial aid office to ask about state benefits for returning veterans.
 
T2urtle said:
from what i seen and heard first hand from people, the company teaches you the way they want you to do tech-support.
Click to expand...

Most companies will teach you their policies and limitations.

They may say.. "for connectivity issues, ping the default gateway and check for incorrect entries in the host file"

They're not going to teach you how to ping... or how to find the default gateway or where the host file is, or what should and should not be there. They expect you to know this.
 
BoomerD said:
They keep running news stories about how badly companies in the bay area need engineers in the computer industry.

I'm sure there are a bunch of different types that are in high demand, but I think engineering is in much greater demand than "computer science" types of degrees. (although, if you're in an area that has lots of high-tech industry, those are probably still in high demand.)
Click to expand...

The demand isn't as high as some people make it seem. I graduated in '08 as an engineer and I landed a job. I have friends who graduated in '09 who are still jobless. I have friends who graduated and could only secure contract jobs. Sure they contracted for great companies like Apple, and I can bet they're great engineers too, but it's not that easy to secure a position.

A BS degree means NOTHING in Silicon Valley anymore. Hell, I knew that the minute I got my job. I knew I had to go back to school. I was lucky it was a startup that I wasn't only doing what my job description was. I ended up doing a lot of stuff with the scientists and gaining invaluable knowledge. But in the end I knew that a PhD was necessary to continue in my field. And this is why half my good friends are in graduate school after working a year or two.

But sure you could say that this is because we're inexperienced fresh-out-of-college grads, but I also know a handful of people not having the greatest kind of luck with an MS and what not.
 
What the hell is a degree in "computer IT"?
Is that kind of like a degree in "broad generalities"?
 
Having recently gone though hiring a new programmer I thought I'd give my take on it.

1) I work in education.
2) I do not have a degree.
3) I have no certs.
4) I teach IT classes for extra cash.
5) (I want to stress this) I'm the exception to the rule.

During our hiring process, we discovered that far to many cert mills were pumping out 'graduates' in our area who had 100% no clue what they were doing. These guys may have had certs from microsoft saying they were computer programmers or solaris 10 certified, or linux+/a+/whatever but they had no practical experience and no idea what they were doing. They failed simple tests and couldn't answer questions about development practices, SCM, or logic/programming puzzles.

Then we had the college graduates. These tended to be a little better. They could answer our questions but were very green. Much greener then we were looking for. Things like "What is the point of SCM?" was common as well as a seeming hatred of unit testing and coding standards. They would have been much better candidates had their internships actually had them programming or managing servers. It seemed like their internships were all tech support related.

In the end, we hired a friend of mine. He has no college experience and no certs, but like me has been doing this thing for over 15 years. Experience trumps all if you can get past the HR department. Like myself he would never had been considered for the job if he didn't know someone on the inside to get him that first interview. Our HR department would (IMHO very stupidly) just toss out resumes that don't have a BS degree on them.
 
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