How high would I have to oc to get "decent" performance? Would upping the bus to 133 from 100(cpu now at 2400) be enough? What matx mobo has locked pci/agp, or do all current ones have this?
RussianSensation
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P4 2.4ghz and 6600GT should be a decent match. After this upgrade, you should do a full system rehaul with PCIe.
I ran a 1.5ghz p4 with a 9800np at 480/365. GPU should be equvalent to your 6600nu. I could only do 1024x768 in UT2k4, instead of 1600x1200 with an A64. CS:S stress bench was 39 fps no matter what quality settings at 10x7.
RussianSensation
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Should probably hit 2.6 easy. Depending on how old it is 3.0-3.4 is pretty common. If it's a real gem it could even hit 3.8 or more.
yeah, I've seen this before, and I've got the good ram too, the samsung 2.8ns. I've got BGA ramsinks on there too, so there's no reason why I shouldn't but...I've never really gotten around to it. IDK why.
Umm, the thread isn't that long, I already said
So I don't need a full system upgrade, I already have it, I just want to upgrade my old computer to something a little better now. Maybe so I have a friend over we can play each other on my computers over lan? As is the old computer can't run much any game, it has intel integrated graphics, no agp slot, and no, absolutely no oc options.
The board it is in now set the FSB from 100 (where it is now) to 133
If that works then just about any board will work as changing the FSB from 100 to 133 will turn your 1.8Ghz chip into a 2.4Ghz chip.
If you want really cheap then look at the PM800 boards. if you want dual Ch memory then try this out...
Dual Ch memory
Cost more but adds a little bit to the system if you have 2 sticks of memory.
If that works then just about any board will work as changing the FSB from 100 to 133 will turn your 1.8Ghz chip into a 2.4Ghz chip.
If you want really cheap then look at the PM800 boards. if you want dual Ch memory then try this out...
Dual Ch memory
Cost more but adds a little bit to the system if you have 2 sticks of memory.
My board doesn't have the option to switch fsb to 133, it only supports fsb 400 (100mhz), so I can't try it, wish I could though.
Is that board you list(Ecs) overclockable? Also, are ecs any good, I was under the impression that it stood for "elite crap systems", like some say.
Is that board you list(Ecs) overclockable? Also, are ecs any good, I was under the impression that it stood for "elite crap systems", like some say.
Well most mATX will have very little to no overclocking settings. BUT like I was saying before if the board has a 133Mhz FSB setting your chip SHOULD be able to make that leap on default voltage. If not you can do a wire mod to up the voltage, like I had to do with my Xeons. The board I listed does support 100, 133, and 200Mhz FSB, and I have used a pile of ECS, PCchips. etc... boards and no real problems.
Zap
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Your CPU is a 1.8A Northwood, as already mentioned previously. It definately WILL overclock. How much depends on how good that particular chip is, how good your cooling is and how good an overclocker motherboard you get. Let me get something off my chest regarding those well-meaning folks saying "Should probably hit 2.6 easy. Depending on how old it is 3.0-3.4 is pretty common. If it's a real gem it could even hit 3.8 or more." Don't mean to pick on Lithan in particular, but I find that type of comment to be irresponsible. For everybody that has a 1.8A that would run at 3GHz or higher, I'm sure you can find hundreds that cannot even get above 2.5GHz stable. I'm not saying that 3.4GHz is not attainable on a 1.8A, but to call it "pretty common" is just not right.
You mentioned that it HAS to be mATX. Let me emphasize something... AFAIK there are currently no mATX socket 478 motherboard on the market that has full overclockability with BIOS settings. I hope/pray that someone will prove me wrong, but I've gone down this path before. Trust me. Those three motherboards listed most likely don't have any OC settings beyond some minor FSB adjustments. The VIA chipset does not have an AGP/PCI lock. The Intel 865G chipset does have that capability, but is dependent on the mobo manufacturer to set it.
What is needed for good P4 overclocking? FSB adjustments, voltage adjustments and a working AGP/PCI lock (not just chipset-capable, but fully operational on the shipping board). There is one board I know of off-hand that has two of the above in a mATX form factor. The Asus P4S800-MX. It uses the SiS 661FX chipset supporting 400/533/800MHz, AGP 8X, integrated video, sound, network... pretty basic. The AGP is just 2X PCI, and when you overclock in BIOS you are told what the PCI speed will be. It is "semi" locked in that mostly it stays at 33MHz but sometimes it will go to 34 or 35MHz. FSB goes from 100-260, covering most needs. Only lacks vcore, but that can be done with the wire trick. Board can be had new for $60. This board is a proven overclocker with mobile Celerons running at all kinds of FSB settings.
You mentioned that it HAS to be mATX. Let me emphasize something... AFAIK there are currently no mATX socket 478 motherboard on the market that has full overclockability with BIOS settings. I hope/pray that someone will prove me wrong, but I've gone down this path before. Trust me. Those three motherboards listed most likely don't have any OC settings beyond some minor FSB adjustments. The VIA chipset does not have an AGP/PCI lock. The Intel 865G chipset does have that capability, but is dependent on the mobo manufacturer to set it.
What is needed for good P4 overclocking? FSB adjustments, voltage adjustments and a working AGP/PCI lock (not just chipset-capable, but fully operational on the shipping board). There is one board I know of off-hand that has two of the above in a mATX form factor. The Asus P4S800-MX. It uses the SiS 661FX chipset supporting 400/533/800MHz, AGP 8X, integrated video, sound, network... pretty basic. The AGP is just 2X PCI, and when you overclock in BIOS you are told what the PCI speed will be. It is "semi" locked in that mostly it stays at 33MHz but sometimes it will go to 34 or 35MHz. FSB goes from 100-260, covering most needs. Only lacks vcore, but that can be done with the wire trick. Board can be had new for $60. This board is a proven overclocker with mobile Celerons running at all kinds of FSB settings.
What do you think about the gigabyte board I listed? I'm leaning towards it now.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-128-222&depa=0
I dl'ed the manual, and looked at the bios section. It has good oc options, fsb adjustment, agp/pci lock(if that's what agp/pci fixed is), but no voltage options are listed, but someone said that some gigabytes have "hidden" voltage options(press f1 or something in bios to show options). So does the wire trick work if the board doesn't have adjustable voltages? What would the vcore go to with the wire trick? Could I get to 2.4ghz (133fsb) without it?
I kind of doubt that my cpu will be a great overclocker, since it's oem, (someone said oems are the cpus that are binned as slow, retail are better?), don't really know if that's true though.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-128-222&depa=0
I dl'ed the manual, and looked at the bios section. It has good oc options, fsb adjustment, agp/pci lock(if that's what agp/pci fixed is), but no voltage options are listed, but someone said that some gigabytes have "hidden" voltage options(press f1 or something in bios to show options). So does the wire trick work if the board doesn't have adjustable voltages? What would the vcore go to with the wire trick? Could I get to 2.4ghz (133fsb) without it?
I kind of doubt that my cpu will be a great overclocker, since it's oem, (someone said oems are the cpus that are binned as slow, retail are better?), don't really know if that's true though.
Zap
Elite Member
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Sounds like similar settings as the Asus P4S800-MX. Don't want to put a damper on things, but I had thought that the MSI 865GM2-LS was overclockable also. Here's a quote from a user review: "One MAJOR problem with my board though - changes to vcore don't "stick". The latest BIOS has eliminated the vcore option from the BIOS" I had ordered one of these for my fiancees computer and the shipping BIOS at the time no longer had the faulty vcore settings. Indeed a subsequent BIOS update removed pretty much all the remaining overclocking settings.
Gigabyte has also been known to change product specs. This thread about mATX boards has information saying that the Gigabyte board had vcore and such posted on the Gigabyte web site. Later on, the site was changed so it now no longer says the board has such settings.
I don't want to put a huge damper on you getting the Gigabyte board, really just a warning to not be too disappointed. I tried searching for reviews on this board but seems like nobody tried overclocking using one of these. If it indeed has FSB adjustments and AGP/PCI lock/fixed, then voltage can be done with the wire trick.
I looked at the msi board, but saw the same thing you did. Multiple users reported that the vcore doesn't work, and now the option is gone.
According to the manual, it has fsb adjustment, and I think it has lockable pci/agp. It's called asynchronous pci/agp clock IIRC. Asynchronous means not synchronized, so that means it isn't synchronized with the fsb, which would be "locking" it?
I don't know if this board has the hidden voltage options (I kind of doubt it). I read that some do, if you press ctrl+f1 at the main bios screen it shows more options.
Is the wire trick risky? Like is it possible that it'll fry the cpu?
Man, a company could make a fortune if they made a good matx board. It'd need to be silent(htpc), oc/voltage options, 4 dimms, agp/pcie, etc.
I too couldn't really find any reviews where they oc'ed this board.
According to the manual, it has fsb adjustment, and I think it has lockable pci/agp. It's called asynchronous pci/agp clock IIRC. Asynchronous means not synchronized, so that means it isn't synchronized with the fsb, which would be "locking" it?
I don't know if this board has the hidden voltage options (I kind of doubt it). I read that some do, if you press ctrl+f1 at the main bios screen it shows more options.
Is the wire trick risky? Like is it possible that it'll fry the cpu?
Man, a company could make a fortune if they made a good matx board. It'd need to be silent(htpc), oc/voltage options, 4 dimms, agp/pcie, etc.
I too couldn't really find any reviews where they oc'ed this board.
Wouldnt it be better to just get a Celeron-D 2.8ghz-3.0ghz if he is going through the trouble of buying the new board? Its a really cheap solution at $85. I think they are much faster compared to a same speed northwood@400fsb.
right?
right?
Well, if I'm replacing the cpu too, might as well get an amd 64 and a nforce mobo right? I don't really want to spend that much though. I just want a cheap upgrade.
Edit: If I could get a full atx board(get a new case), then are there any good socket 478 mobos that have adjustable fsb, pci lock, and adjustable voltages that is known to be a good oc'ing mobo. Preferably under $100. Maybe this?
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127164
Edit: If I could get a full atx board(get a new case), then are there any good socket 478 mobos that have adjustable fsb, pci lock, and adjustable voltages that is known to be a good oc'ing mobo. Preferably under $100. Maybe this?
http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127164
You can weigh the cost of case + new full ATX mobo vs. the cost of Sempron 754 and mATX board with options. It's gonna be same ballpark assuming that you can find a suitable 754 mATX board-I'm not sure.
If that scenario works, I'd bet your games would love you for picking an OC'd Sempron over the OC'd 1.8. Even if you can't get a full-featured 754 board, you might prefer the Sempron stock for gaming-depends on the potential of your cpu to OC.
Review Here
It really depends on how much of a "backup" pc you want. Is it gonna be for somebody else to play games on, or for you mom to check her email? If it's for games, I'd definitely drop my $ on the Sempron combo.
If that scenario works, I'd bet your games would love you for picking an OC'd Sempron over the OC'd 1.8. Even if you can't get a full-featured 754 board, you might prefer the Sempron stock for gaming-depends on the potential of your cpu to OC.
Review Here
It really depends on how much of a "backup" pc you want. Is it gonna be for somebody else to play games on, or for you mom to check her email? If it's for games, I'd definitely drop my $ on the Sempron combo.
I am not sure what kinda of power supply those old northwoods needed to overclock, but you may need to invest in a new one of those also...these hopeful cheap upgrades start looking like crap when ya start all this stuff. I may be wrong, I have overclocked many AXP 2500+ on generic or low end power supplies and been perfectly fine, but again I am unsure of how sensitive the northwood is.... someone else with experience of one let him know what he needs for a power supply!!
good luck!!
good luck!!
I have a antec 350w. It's good enough. 21a on 12v, don't have to worry about the psu, at least I hope not.
I don't really want to build a whole system, just upgrade. If I get a new motherboard, cpu, case, and a copy of xp, all I'm doing is building a new pc and reusing my monitor, hd, and cd drive. Plus it'll cost too much. Max upgrade for me is a new mobo for my cpu that can oc it really good + a really cheap case (don't need psu already have). I have 512mb of pc3200, so I don't need ram.
My real goal, now that I know that a 1.8 is too slow, is to get a micro atx mobo(reuse case) that I can oc my 1.8 to at least 2.4ghz. I found a gigabyte board that's oc'able, but it doesn't have voltage options, can I just do the "wire trick" to up the voltage and get my desired oc?
"My real goal, now that I know that a 1.8 is too slow, is to get a micro atx mobo(reuse case) that I can oc my 1.8 to at least 2.4ghz. I found a gigabyte board that's oc'able, but it doesn't have voltage options, can I just do the "wire trick" to up the voltage and get my desired oc? "
Has anyone done the wire trick? Does work on mobo's without voltage options?
Has anyone done the wire trick? Does work on mobo's without voltage options?
Ok, just to update this, I know it's a little old, but I finally upgraded it. I got the gigabyte 8IG1000MK board and a leadtek 6200 agp card. I unlocked the 6200 to a 6600 and oc'ed it a little, I also got my cpu oc'ed from 1.8 to 2.55 so far. It gets about 35000-38000 in aquamark3, so not too bad for a measly 1.8a and a 6200. Good for a backup rig anyway. I also modded my dell case. If you're interested check out my worklog of it here. Oh, yeah, I got the oem dell xp cd to install on a non-dell mobo, amazing. Everyone says it can't be done. Saved $90, good deal!
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=902472&page=1&pp=40
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=902472&page=1&pp=40
I had a very similar system, though I started with a GeForce 4 MX 420 and went straight to the 9700Pro, which I'm still using.
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