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Is 1 = 0.9999......

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i can apply the same logic the .99999r people are using to any number and round it to whatever i want.

.9r does not = 1

no book can prove or disprove that, its the holy grail of math 😛
 
Originally posted by: Acanthus
i can apply the same logic the .99999r people are using to any number and round it to whatever i want.

.9r does not = 1

no book can prove or disprove that, its the holy grail of math 😛
Click to expand...

No you can't. 3 != 5 because 4 is > 3 and < 5. Therefore 3 < 5.

You can't find any such number in between 0.9... and 1.
 
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: Acanthus
i can apply the same logic the .99999r people are using to any number and round it to whatever i want.

.9r does not = 1

no book can prove or disprove that, its the holy grail of math 😛
Click to expand...

No you can't. 3 != 5 because 4 is > 3 and < 5. Therefore 3 < 5.

You can't find any such number in between 0.9... and 1.
Click to expand...

(0.9999... + 1) / 2 = number between 0.9999... and 1.
 
Nice try, but that doesn't work.

(a+b)/2 >= a and <=b

If a = b then (a+b)/2 = a

If you do the math with 0.9... and 1, you'll see that this is true.
 
Oh God, not again! Make it STOP!!

Your math is flawed.
10x - x = 9.9999... - 0.9999... <---- NOT a true statement!

Look at it the other way around. Let's say we start with the value "1" and then I subtract the smallest number in existence, "0.00000000000 (a zillion more zeroes go here) 0000001". Now, is that number still 1.0? If you say yes, then you are claiming that subtraction does not exist.

Dave
 
Yeah...I remember that proof. But if you step away and just look at the numbers, a fraction of a number will always be less than the whole number. There's just no getting around that.
 
Originally posted by: Apathetic
Oh God, not again! Make it STOP!!

Your math is flawed.
10x - x = 9.9999... - 0.9999... <---- NOT a true statement!

Look at it the other way around. Let's say we start with the value "1" and then I subtract the smallest number in existence, "0.00000000000 (a zillion more zeroes go here) 0000001". Now, is that number still 1.0? If you say yes, then you are claiming that subtraction does not exist.

Dave
Click to expand...

1-0.9r = 0.0000000.... if you put a 1 after the sequence that implies there is an end to it when there is no such end. thre is no place to put the 1

and i still would like to see somebody to debunk a proof like this: (i'm not gonna go through all these posts! 😀)

1/3 = 0.3r
1 = 1/3 * 3 = 0.3r * 3 = 0.9r
 
Originally posted by: dighn
Originally posted by: Apathetic
Oh God, not again! Make it STOP!!

Your math is flawed.
10x - x = 9.9999... - 0.9999... <---- NOT a true statement!

Look at it the other way around. Let's say we start with the value "1" and then I subtract the smallest number in existence, "0.00000000000 (a zillion more zeroes go here) 0000001". Now, is that number still 1.0? If you say yes, then you are claiming that subtraction does not exist.

Dave
Click to expand...

1-0.9r = 0.0000000.... if you put a 1 after the sequence that implies there is an end to it when there is no such end. the 1 would be located at "infinity" imo it wouldn't be part of the number because there is no end to it.

and i still would like to see somebody to debunk a proof like this:

1/3 = 0.3r
1 = 1/3 * 3 = 0.3r * 3 = 0.9r
Click to expand...

FYI - that is no proof
 
but it shows that 0.9r = 1 doesn't it? what's wrong with it? just wondering

edit n/m i found the part of the argument about this reading it now
 
Clearly 1<>.999... and if you skim the last twenty pages then you'll see that no argument holds water contrary to this fact.
 
Originally posted by: MadRat
Clearly 1<>.999... and if you skim the last twenty pages then you'll see that no argument holds water contrary to this fact.
Click to expand...

what are you talking about? the mathematical proof was given within the first 100 posts. there seem to be two common misconseptions in this thread:

1) the difference between .9r and 1 is 1/infinity
2) the difference is 0.000...1 (maybe some people think 1/infinity = 0.000...1???)

anyways both arguments are fictitous because 1/infinity EQUALS zero. Thats right folks 1/infinity = 0. A lot of people simply cant grasp this concept, they think 1/infinity is some very very small amount - well thats wrong. again 1/infinity == 0.

for the people that think the difference is 0.000...1 (or think that 1/inf = 0.000...1) this is obviously false because you can not have an infinite string of numbers and then a number after that. infinity, by definition, has no end. by putting a 1 after an infinite string of 0's you violate the very principle of infinity.

the proof was stated about post #70 and im not going to repost it. it will only take about 2 seconds for you to go back and find it or use google. but to understand the proof you really need a background in calculus II, which probably only 1 out of every 100 AT'ers have. and thats the problem in this thread - 99 out of every 100 peolpe reading this thread lack the very foundation for which the proof is based on, and 1 person out of every 100 trying to enlighten a hoard of ignorance.
 
Originally posted by: josphII
Originally posted by: MadRat
Clearly 1<>.999... and if you skim the last twenty pages then you'll see that no argument holds water contrary to this fact.
Click to expand...

what are you talking about? the mathematical proof was given within the first 100 posts. there seem to be two common misconseptions in this thread:

1) the difference between .9r and 1 is 1/infinity
2) the difference is 0.000...1 (maybe some people think 1/infinity = 0.000...1???)

anyways both arguments are fictitous because 1/infinity EQUALS zero. Thats right folks 1/infinity = 0. A lot of people simply cant grasp this concept, they think 1/infinity is some very very small amount - well thats wrong. again 1/infinity == 0.

for the people that think the difference is 0.000...1 (or think that 1/inf = 0.000...1) this is obviously false because you can not have an infinite string of numbers and then a number after that. infinity, by definition, has no end. by putting a 1 after an infinite string of 0's you violate the very principle of infinity.

the proof was stated about post #70 and im not going to repost it. it will only take about 2 seconds for you to go back and find it or use google. but to understand the proof you really need a background in calculus II, which probably only 1 out of every 100 AT'ers have. and thats the problem in this thread - 99 out of every 100 peolpe reading this thread lack the very foundation for which the proof is based on, and 1 person out of every 100 trying to enlighten a hoard of ignorance.
Click to expand...

Even though I believe that 1=0.9999.... I'm going to have to say that you are wrong here. You claim that 1/infinity == 0. If this is true than by simple algebra we get that 1/0 == infinity. While it is nice to assume this for use in simplifying certain equations, it is simply untrue. In spite of what your high school math teacher told you, division by 0 is undefined.

Ugh, the first link in google. I would heve preferred a different source, but....

Hmm. Better link. Also check out the "Does infinity exist? "link on that page.
 
Originally posted by: Kyteland
Originally posted by: josphII
Originally posted by: MadRat
Clearly 1<>.999... and if you skim the last twenty pages then you'll see that no argument holds water contrary to this fact.
Click to expand...

what are you talking about? the mathematical proof was given within the first 100 posts. there seem to be two common misconseptions in this thread:

1) the difference between .9r and 1 is 1/infinity
2) the difference is 0.000...1 (maybe some people think 1/infinity = 0.000...1???)

anyways both arguments are fictitous because 1/infinity EQUALS zero. Thats right folks 1/infinity = 0. A lot of people simply cant grasp this concept, they think 1/infinity is some very very small amount - well thats wrong. again 1/infinity == 0.

for the people that think the difference is 0.000...1 (or think that 1/inf = 0.000...1) this is obviously false because you can not have an infinite string of numbers and then a number after that. infinity, by definition, has no end. by putting a 1 after an infinite string of 0's you violate the very principle of infinity.

the proof was stated about post #70 and im not going to repost it. it will only take about 2 seconds for you to go back and find it or use google. but to understand the proof you really need a background in calculus II, which probably only 1 out of every 100 AT'ers have. and thats the problem in this thread - 99 out of every 100 peolpe reading this thread lack the very foundation for which the proof is based on, and 1 person out of every 100 trying to enlighten a hoard of ignorance.
Click to expand...

Even though I believe that 1=0.9999.... I'm going to have to say that you are wrong here. You claim that 1/infinity == 0. If this is true than by simple algebra we get that 1/0 == infinity. While it is nice to assume this for use in simplifying certain equations, it is simply untrue. In spite of what your high school math teacher told you, division by 0 is undefined.

Ugh, the first link in google. I would heve preferred a different source, but....

Hmm. Better link. Also check out the "Does infinity exist? "link on that page.
Click to expand...

firstly your insult is totally out of left field there - and as a matter of fact, although i dont have a degree in mathmatics, I do hold a b.s. degree in nuclear engineering from the university of ca. at berkeley. and you?

firstly your logic is flawed because saying 1/infinity==0 does NOT imply that 1/0 = infinity. in order to state that you must first multiply both sides by infinity, then you get infinity/infinity = 0 * infinity, which you can see has no answer because what is infinity/infinity??

But anyhow ill play along. in your first link dr math argues that any number divided by zero is undefined, not infinity. he argues this by firstly theorizing that:

infinity - infinity = 0
1 + infinity = infinity

and then introducing a parodox

1 + (infinity - infinity) = 1 + 0 = 1
but
(1 + infinity) - infinity = infinity - infinity = 0

his logic is obviously flawed because infinity - infinity doesnt equal 0, as he even states so here

he also starts by stating that definition of division is a function of multiplication, such as 'you divide 6 by 3 the answer is 2 because 2 times 3 IS 6.' The problem is you can also define division as a function of subtraction, such as you divide 6 by 3 the anser is 2 because you can take 3 away from 6 two times (6 - 3 - 3 = 0). By this latter definition any number divided by zero equals infinity because you can take 0 away from any number an infinite amount of times, ie 9 - 0 - 0 - 0 ... = 9. I could also say that if you took the limit as x approaches 0 of the function (a/x), where a is any real number, the answer is infinity which you can clearly see by graphing. Does this prove that any number divided by 0 is infinity? The problem is that you can use either definition and all basic mathematical principles hold true. So does any number divided by zero equal infinity or is the answer undefined? There isn't an anser to this question, it depends on your definition of division.
 
firstly your insult is totally out of left field there
Click to expand...
Sorry, that wasn't meant as an insult (probably why it was out of left field) 😱 Most people learn the 1/infinity = 0 thing in high school. I know I did. I was shown a proof in college as to why it was not, but I don't remember it anymore. A quick google search gave the above links, but they weren't really what I was looking for. I may try to find the proof I was thinking of later when I am not at work.
and as a matter of fact, although i dont have a degree in mathmatics, I do hold a b.s. degree in nuclear engineering from the university of ca. at berkeley. and you?
Click to expand...
My degree is in Computer Science from the University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign with a minor in Mathematics. I am currently working as a Mathematician in the gaming industry making slot machines.

Edit: And as for the Dr Math link up there I never really like the way they explain things there, but they always come up as the first hit on Google every time I search for something math related. I'll try to find something more substantial when I have time.
 
Originally posted by: spanky
Originally posted by: Kyteland
I am currently working as a Mathematician in the gaming industry making slot machines.
Click to expand...

so... what is the secret to hitting the big one? do i have to kick the side of the machine somewhere?
Click to expand...

Don't tell anyone, but how it works is there is a little man in a room somewhere watching everyone play. Occasionally he'll say "That guy looks like he needs a win." The trick is to somehow be that guy. 😛

You'd be surprised how many beliefs there are concerning gambling. People know how it works, yet they refuse to believe that there isn't some trick to it. My favorite is how people think that when a maching hits big it is now "cold", that somehow it has to make up for the fact that it just payed someone a lot of money. In reality every spin is completely independant.

As for cheating, The games we have in the labs at work are demo machines. There is a little button we press which causes the next spin to be the top award or to trigger the bonus or otherwise do something really really good. Casinos don't use the demo machines 🙁 Now if only I could find someone to fill the machines at work with $$$ :Q

Edit: fixed quote tags
 
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