IRS - Tool To Manage Public Sentiment??

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Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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This should be good....


With Regards To the below Opinion piece in this morning's Wall Street Journal, I have a couple questions:

- - Should the IRS use their power to determine what things Organisations may and may not be permitted to put in print?
- - Should (Any) Administration be allowed to use the IRS as a means to back door rules they can't get through (both) houses?

Link to ful article (may need Subscription to view)
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304747004579223933628024344?mod=hp_opinion


Full text:
The Latest IRS Political Crackdown

An ambiguous new rule to stop Americans from influencing elections
Nov. 28, 2013 5:02 p.m. ET

The Obama Administration doesn't lack for nerve or, more to the point, disdain for the law. Even as investigations continue into the IRS targeting of conservative nonprofit groups, Treasury and the IRS are introducing a new regulation to further restrict the ability of nonprofit groups to participate in elections.
Treasury's draft of the proposed rule would redefine as political activity a wide range of actions currently undertaken by hundreds of 501(c)(4)s, which are allowed to engage in politics as long as it is not their "primary purpose." The rule amounts to a crackdown on the Administration's opponents, limiting their ability to talk about their core issues during an election cycle.
Under the new rule, the IRS would change the standard on issue advertising so that any broadcast ad that mentions a candidate within 30 days of a primary or 60 days of a general election would count as "political activity." That's the standard currently used by the Federal Election Commission to define an "electioneering communication," but using it as a standard for tax-exempt status imposes artificial limits on groups' ability to work on their core missions during election cycles.
The rule would also expand the definition of political activity to include any communication that mentions the name of a candidate and reaches more than 500 people in the run-up to an election. That definition would include newsletters, candidate appearances at a group function, common materials like voter guides, and articles or blog posts on a group's website.
The latter would even include material that remains on the website during the 30- and 60-day election periods. To avoid getting tagged for engaging in too much politics, a group would have to scrub its website of anything written about a candidate, presumably even if the article was written before the candidate had announced.
Imagine if the Sierra Club criticized a manufacturing CEO for supposed sins against the Club's core mission of protecting the environment. If the CEO later ran for Congress, would the Sierra Club have to delete those posts or have that material counted against its allotted share of political activity? Outside the IRS, that's called censorship.
The rule would also use state and local definitions of what counts as a contribution to a candidate, a policy that would reach into other aspects of 501(c)(4) operations, such as counting pro-bono legal work for a candidate as an "in-kind" contribution. A "candidate" is defined to include executive and judicial nominees, whose confirmation battles happen outside of traditional election cycles. The American Bar Association rates judicial candidates when they are nominated, so would this put the ABA's tax status in jeopardy?

The Administration claims the rule's purpose is to clarify tax-exempt standards to prevent future mistakes like the one that sidelined the applications of hundreds of conservative and tea party groups in 2011-2012. Yet the new rule offers zero clarity on what percentage of a 501(c)(4)'s activities may be political without falling afoul of the nebulous "primary purpose" test. Enforcement could be as arbitrary as it is now.
The new proposal is designed to cover only 501(c)(4)s, the social welfare groups that liberals despise, while leaving the door open to cover other tax-exempt groups in the future. 501(c)(4)s are the immediate target because the real goal here is donor disclosure, which has become a liberal hobbyhorse. If 501(c)(4)s can't run issue ads in the weeks before an election, that activity would likely shift to 527 groups that are required to report donors under IRS rules.
All of which continues this Administration's unprecedented campaign to rewrite the law on its own if Congress won't do its bidding. Democrats failed to pass the Disclose Act, so the Administration is pressuring the Securities and Exchange Commission and is now using the IRS to compel donor disclosure. President Obama seems to think Congress can simply be ignored if it doesn't do what he wants.
The IRS is soliciting comments on its draft, so here's ours: The same agency that showed it is willing to use the tax code to punish critics of the President can't be trusted to limit anyone's political speech.
 
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SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
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I dont have a problem as long as it is done for ALL groups. Its when they start selectively targeting ones that I have issue with. If you want to do political advocacy then don't become a c3 or 4, simple. I wish they would crack down on all 501s.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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Yes, we know that right wing billionaires abhor the idea that the funding of their puppet groups should suffer public scrutiny. They have a good thing going when they can obscure political spending as charitable giving. It also gives better bang for the buck.

The proposed rule changes don't prevent giving, political spending or free speech. They just prevent donors from pretending that they're the same thing, and political groups from dodging tax obligations in the process. Whatever political group has best exploited the obfuscation will scream the loudest, obviously.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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If you are a non-profit and attempt to generate any type of political influence; the non-profit status should be revoked.


Example:
Churches get up on the pulpit and rant against abortion is OK
Churches that take it a step further and support political stances/advocate political stances, advice on ballot item or encourage support of a given politician - They lose their status for a period of 5-10 years and then have to re-apply.

Attack a politician - No go
Advocate support of a political march - No go.
Let people now of a political march without an endorsement - can not be done; to grey of an area and doing so reaks of support. Let the people know via their own word of mouth or the local media.
 
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monovillage

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Jul 3, 2008
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House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp, R-Mich., says he&#8217;s skeptical about the administration's move.

"There continues to be an ongoing investigation, with many documents yet to be uncovered, into how the IRS systematically targeted and abused conservative-leaning groups," he said in a written statement. "This smacks of the administration trying to shut down potential critics."

The American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ), which is representing 41 organizations in a federal lawsuit challenging the IRS, says the proposed regulation change puts free speech rights of Americans at risk.

&#8220;This is a feeble attempt by the Obama Administration to justify its own wrong-doing with the IRS targeting of conservative and Tea Party groups,&#8221; attorney Jay Sekulow said in a written statement. &#8220;Instead of holding those responsible for the unlawful targeting scheme accountable for their actions, the Obama Administration is determined to further limit the free speech of Americans by attempting to change constitutional practices that are decades old.&#8221;


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/27/irs-pushes-to-rein-in-tax-exempt-political-groups/

Why would conservatives, religious groups and Republicans have any belief in an administration that lies to the American public so often or in the IRS that has already targeted and screwed them over?
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
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If you are a non-profit and attempt to generate any type of political influence; the non-profit status should be revoked.


Example:
Churches get up on the pulpit and rant against abortion is OK
Churches that take it a step further and support political stances/advocate political stances, advice on ballot item or encourage support of a given politician - They lose their status for a period of 5-10 years and then have to re-apply.

Attack a politician - No go
Advocate support of a political march - No go.
Let people now of a political march without an endorsement - can not be done; to grey of an area and doing so reaks of support. Let the people know via their own word of mouth or the local media.

Sure, but here's the problem with this new IRS regulation and why liberals like Jhhnn have no issues with it: It's specific to 501c(4)'s, which are "social welfare" and "civic groups". Many of 501c(4)'s are conservative in their politics and take advantage of a 50% activity rule. Now the IRS wants to limit that further. However, there is one HUGE group that won't be affected by this - Labor Unions. Guess what, they are 501c(5)'s, so they don't fall into this issue.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Sure, but here's the problem with this new IRS regulation and why liberals like Jhhnn have no issues with it: It's specific to 501c(4)'s, which are "social welfare" and "civic groups". Many of 501c(4)'s are conservative in their politics and take advantage of a 50% activity rule. Now the IRS wants to limit that further. However, there is one HUGE group that won't be affected by this - Labor Unions. Guess what, they are 501c(5)'s, so they don't fall into this issue.

Utterly obfuscational. Labor Unions' funding comes almost entirely from members' dues & business income. It's already transparent.

If 501c(4) groups were required to reveal their funding in a similar fashion, that would be another way to resolve the issues. I'd also be entirely comfortable doing away with the 50% rule so that charities really are charities rather than megaphones for anonymous uber conservative funders.
 
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