IRS Scandal explodes. "no evidence that would support a criminal prosecution."

[spidey07]

Kinda hard to provide evidence when the Obama admin and the IRS deleted and disposed of it from 7 employees of this evil administration.

That's the definition of a cover up. Destroy or cover up evidence of wrong doing. May that fucker rot in hell. FBHO.

 

[Jhhnn]

Kinda hard to provide evidence when the Obama admin and the IRS deleted and disposed of it from 7 employees of this evil administration.

That's the definition of a cover up. Destroy or cover up evidence of wrong doing. May that fucker rot in hell. FBHO.

Funny what people think about when they fondle their firearms & their crank at the same time.

 

[ivwshane]

Good lord son, my irony meter just blew up. We have a government official who pleads the fifth and refuses to answer questions during an investigation. We want accountability in our government, but if she wants to do that it's her legal right and there are always court orders to get her records. Oh ya, about that, sorry, we had a computer crash and magically the majority of the affected files were missing emails to and from people outside the IRS. That's ok, per protocol she should have printed out those emails. Oh ya, about that too, sorry, they don't seem to exist.

The fact that you buy this steaming pile of horse shit and then have the nerve to say the retarded right eat this shit up "as if Jesus himself had come down from the heavens to spread the gospel" boggles the mind. But then again, we all know deep down inside you don't believe it either.

Do you think this new info will change anything? I don't, the nutters are shielded pretty solidly behind their bubble.

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. It's a beautiful & tragic thing, watching all the nutters being led from one "conspiracy" to another. This whole email retention flap is a doozie. I figure if you went to 100 IRS employees at random & asked for the printed emails from the period of time in question that damned few if any would have them. That's because it never was IRS policy to retain them at all, despite conspiracy theorists attempt to define policy in the "shoulda" realm.

From alleged persecution to coverup & every dead end they can drag out to support the conspiracy when they refuse to force testimony from an alleged perp.

Some things never change- Atwater had 'em dialed in over 30 years ago & they're still in the same place like a nest of baby birds with their mouths open, always hungry for more of the same

 

[werepossum]

Hmm, let's check this out with a very partial timeline. At least as early as February 2010, the IRS is targeting conservative groups for "extra scrutiny", effectively stopping the processing of every conservative group's application for not-for-profit status whilst progressive groups' applications typically sail through in a couple months. This is accompanied by IRS audits of major donors and leaking of donor lists to proggie "watchdog" groups, committing at least one felony. (Of course, the IRS claims that punishing the culprit would break the same law, so no harm, no foul.) http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/JW1559-001681.pdf

On July 6 2010, IRS official Holly Paz emails Washington-based IRS lawyer Steven Grodnitzky “to let Cindy and Sharon know how we have been handling Tea Party applications in the last few months.” Grodnitzky replies "EOT is working the Tea party applications in coordination with Cincy. We are developing a few applications here in DC and providing copies of our development letters with the agent to use as examples in the development of their cases. Chip Hull [another lawyer in IRS headquarters] is working these cases in EOT and working with the agent in Cincy, so any communication should include him as well. Because the Tea party applications are the subject of an SCR [Sensitive Case Report], we cannot resolve any of the cases without coordinating with Rob." (Rob Choi is IRS director of Rulings and Agreements.) Note that already Washington is working this. http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/14/n...nator-pressured-irs-to-target-groups/?print=1

In August 2010, the IRS issues the first (known) BOLO on the matter, alerting employees to "be on the look out" for “various local organizations in the Tea Party movement” that are seeking tax-exempt status as 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) groups as well as applications by organizations that: (a) address such issues as government spending, government debt, and taxes; (b) promote the use of education, advocacy, and lobbying to “make America a better place to live”; or (c) criticize how the country is being run by the Obama administration. Note that targeting was going on previously, but now it is openly spread out throughout the IRS.
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=A2E08C05-B637-F24F-CE3DA947A497C3F9

In February 2011, Lerner tells employees by email that a Tea Party matter is "very dangerous," and is something "Counsel and [Lerner adviser] Judy Kindell need to be in on." Ms. Lerner adds, "Cincy should probably NOT have these cases." (Recall that in Lerner's testimony to Congress she described the targeting of Tea Party groups as the work of two long Cincinnati employees and said that she learned about it when she read it in the paper. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0001424127887324549004579068914192280866.html

On June 3 2011, David Camp (Republican Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee) sends a letter to Douglas Shulman (IRS Commissioner) inquiring about this practice, as he's getting complaints. http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedfiles/non_6103_ltr_final.pdf

On June 13 2011, Lois Lerner's computer "crashes". In direct contravention of federal law, every single email she sent or received between January 2009 and April 2011 is lost, in spite of the fact that the IRS cancelled its contract with Sonasoft weeks after this "crash". http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/22/i...rage-firm-weeks-after-lerners-computer-crash/

On July 1 2011, Shulman responds that "the IRS's actions in this area were in no way influenced by political considerations. The IRS is a-political and non-partisan. All decisions made and actions taken with respect to the matter were performed by career employees in the normal course of their duties. No one outside of the IRS provided input regarding the enforcement decisions on these cases." Shulman also assures the Chairman that Lerner has ordered the criteria for flagging tax-exempt applications for extra scrutiny to be changed, so as to apply more broadly to “organizations involved with political, lobbying, or advocacy for exemption under 501(c)(3) or 501(c)(4).” http://waysandmeans.house.gov/uploadedfiles/july_1_2011.pdf

On August 4 2011, the IRS meets with Obama appointee William Wilkins of the Chief Counsel office. Judith Kindell, senior advisor to IRS Exempt Organizations Division Director Lois Lerner, orders IRS lawyer Carter Hull, who oversaw the review of some of the conservative group applications, to involve Wilkins’ office in additional reviews of previously screened tax-exemption applications because of “potential political activity.” In his testimony, that was the first time in his 48 year career that he had been ordered to send not-for-profit applications to another office. http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ar...-one-step-removed-from-the-white-house/print/
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/irs-apologizes-targeting-tea-party-groups

On September 8 2011, the IRS cancels its contract with Sonasoft, its email archiving contractor. No replacement contract will be established. ibid

On October 6, 2011, Charles Boustany, Chairman of the House Ways and Means Oversight Subcommittee, sends a letter to IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman requesting information about the agency's dealings with the tax-exempt sector. Note that this is the actual subcommittee responsible for oversight. http://waysandmeans.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=263424

On November 18 2011, Shulman responds partially, making no mention that the IRS was targeting conservative groups even though they had so briefed Wilkins at least four months prior. http://bucshon.house.gov/two-year-timeline-ways-and-means-committee-investigation-irs

On December 16 2011, the Oversight Subcommittee meets with Lerner and some other IRS Exempt Organization Division staffers, again making no mention of the conservative group targeting. http://bucshon.house.gov/two-year-timeline-ways-and-means-committee-investigation-irs

In January 2012, the IRS begins sending out letters to all the conservative groups whose applications have been placed in limbo. They request a list of all donors and the amounts of their contributions, all emails sent to donors (under the assumption I suppose that only the IRS is allowed to lose emails when convenient), a list of issues important to the group, and the group's stance on those issues. ibid

On February 24, 2012, staffers of the Oversight and Government Reform subcommittees ask Lerner if the criteria for evaluating tax-exempt applications have changed at any point; Lerner replies that the criteria have not changed. ibid

On March 22 2012, the House Ways and Means Oversight Subcommittee holds its regularly scheduled 2012 hearing on the tax-return filing season and general IRS operations. Chairman Charles Boustany asks then-IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman about reports that the IRS has been targeting Tea Party groups. Shulman responds, “I can give you assurances…[t]here is absolutely no targeting.” ibid

In late April 2013, the White House first learns of the scandal. http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=A2E08C05-B637-F24F-CE3DA947A497C3F9

On May 3 2013 - more than two full years after it began - the IRS finally admits that inappropriate targeted of conservative groups occurred. ibid

On May 10 2013, Lerner apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative groups, but insists that no high level people were aware of it. (Which as has been shown is the kind of straight-up, bald-faced lie that usually convinces someone to assert her Fifth Amendment privileges.) ibid

On May 13 2013, Obama says if the IRS intentionally went after conservatives, that's "outrageous." (Hey, he only learned about it three days earlier.) ibid

On May 15, Acting Commissioner Steve Miller repeats the lie that two low level Cincinnati-based employees were responsible and they had already been disciplined. Also, in congressional testimony, Attorney General Eric Holder says the FBI's investigation could include potential civil rights violations, false statements and potential violations of the law prohibiting federal employees from engaging in some partisan political activities. ibid

Did this in multiple pieces from multiple sources as I had a minute so my ibids may actually jump back a couple steps. Nonetheless, the pattern is crystal clear, especially give that the IRS has now said that the emails of six other people under investigation are missing. (That's one very busy - and very full - homework-eating digital dog there.) http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/18/us/lawmakers-skeptical-on-emails-and-irs.html

If you are copacetic with this, there are only two possible choices. Either you are truly a moron of the first water, or you believe that this is the way government should work, a one-party system that rewards or penalizes according to one's political beliefs, without regards to laws or equal protection. There simply is no middle ground here.

 

[Zorkorist]

Heh. It's a beautiful & tragic thing, watching all the nutters being led from one "conspiracy" to another. This whole email retention flap is a doozie. I figure if you went to 100 IRS employees at random & asked for the printed emails from the period of time in question that damned few if any would have them. That's because it never was IRS policy to retain them at all, despite conspiracy theorists attempt to define policy in the "shoulda" realm.

From alleged persecution to coverup & every dead end they can drag out to support the conspiracy when they refuse to force testimony from an alleged perp.

Some things never change- Atwater had 'em dialed in over 30 years ago & they're still in the same place like a nest of baby birds with their mouths open, always hungry for more of the same

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

Here is the complete list from Alinsky.

* RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)

* RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)

* RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

* RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

* RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

* RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)

* RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)

* RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)

* RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)

* RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)

* RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)

* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

 

[spidey07]

There is no middle ground. I'm Ready for war with these fuckers. Let's go.

 

[hal2kilo]

Watching the circus (hearing in real time) . I'm glad the insanity that is the modern day Republican party is being displayed for all to see.

Unbelievably, disrespectful.

 

[Zorkorist]

I love it how liberals and the uneducated demand "respect" like somehow that is a right.

No, sorry, no respect flowing from me, loser.

-John

 

[spidey07]

Watching the circus (hearing in real time) . I'm glad the insanity that is the modern day Republican party is being displayed for all to see.

Unbelievably, disrespectful.

The enemy of this country shall have no respect. In our better days we would hang fucks like this.

Honest men have no respect for criminals nor those that support them.

 

[hal2kilo]

That's right Mr. K, take clown Issa's advice, down grade those users hard drives, that will save so much money because people's time to change them cost nothing.

Yea, Issa knows all about other peoples electronics.

What a friggin joke.

Keep up the show. Unfortunately, people will only be fed the sound bites from this hearing. Really, a train wreck of a hearing.

 

[Jhhnn]

Obfuscational wall o' text rehashing conspiracy theory with highly selective quotes from the alleged perps.

Undoubtedly a nice copy/pasta from a source he didn't reveal- a parroting of prepared talking points.

No surprise there, huh?

All leading away from Repubs' total lack of effort to use the tools at their disposal, one of which is forced testimony through a grant of immunity.

All mudslinging all the time with no effort to ascertain the truth of the original allegation at all.

 

[WackyDan]

If you are copacetic with this, there are only two possible choices. Either you are truly a moron of the first water, or you believe that this is the way government should work, a one-party system that rewards or penalizes according to one's political beliefs, without regards to laws or equal protection. There simply is no middle ground here.

That pretty much sums it up nicely. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can defend the IRS in the name of the administration or think that there wasn't something fishy happening.

Then again I'm fairly pissed off that there is no independent counsel assigned to this. WHY?

 

[Jhhnn]

There is no middle ground. I'm Ready for war with these fuckers. Let's go.

You have the heart & soul of a lynch mob. You'd have been right at home in the Night Riders of the 1870's or leading Salvadoran death squads during the Reagan era.

 

[Jhhnn]

That pretty much sums it up nicely. I can't for the life of me understand how anyone can defend the IRS in the name of the administration or think that there wasn't something fishy happening.

Then again I'm fairly pissed off that there is no independent counsel assigned to this. WHY?

HOR Repubs can force testimony any time they choose. It's all they've got other than mud to sling. It's obvious which they choose, and which gets more mileage among the Faithful.

 

[Jaskalas]

I love it how liberals and the uneducated demand "respect" like somehow that is a right.

No, sorry, no respect flowing from me, loser.

-John

Watch the Godfather. Criminal organizations demand respect.

 

[Jaskalas]

There is no middle ground. I'm Ready for war with these fuckers. Let's go.

You stand alone and you will lose. This needs to be a campaign for States to secede.

 

[compuwiz1]

Anybody who buys the bullshit excuses out of this criminal enterprise is a fool. We all know damn well what happened and why. And some of the left is turning on them because they understand that the IRS should never be used as a political tool, no matter what side you're on. It could have just as easily been the liberals who got treated the same way. Of course not in this administration, but the shoe could have been worn on the different foot at another time and the same people who are not outraged now, would be, if it were happening to their party. Any American who thinks this is ok is either a disingenuous liberal fuck head, or just an uniformed voter. Ever heard of cognitive dissonance? That is precisely what has happened to the liberals. They will not admit and will not handle the truth, even when it bites them in the ass. There was wrongdoing here folks and the reason those emails are not being produced is because what we would see would be very damning for Obama himself.

 

[CitizenKain]

There is no middle ground. I'm Ready for war with these fuckers. Let's go.

In the news today, a fat redneck was shot by police today while screaming about starting a race war after murdering a convenience store clerk.

I love it how liberals and the uneducated demand "respect" like somehow that is a right.

No, sorry, no respect flowing from me, loser.

-John

I think its funny that you think liberals think respect from the rightwing is worth anything. Oh no, a bunch of racist rednecks don't like me, how will my day go on.

 

[QuantumPion]

I have to say that every time I think I've seen the most insane post in this thread some more surface. I don't mean to single out your insane post, as spidey has provided some comedy gold, but the sheer level of paranoia on display here is impressive.

So you think what happened to the Nixon administration was extremist comedy gold? Because I am merely calling for the same treatment they got. How many of Nixon's cronies got hard jail time? Including the attorney general, there were dozens. How else do you deal with the situation of the people in charge of oversight being themselves corrupt and immune from scrutiny?

 

[QuantumPion]

Then again I'm fairly pissed off that there is no independent counsel assigned to this. WHY?

What is an independent council supposed to do? "Uh, we can't find any evidence because they destroyed it all and refuse to testify. Case closed I guess." Just look at the Monica Lewinsky scandal. All the women testifying against Clinton were just painted as "nuts and sluts" (talk about a war on women!). It wasn't until the blue dress surfaced that he had to admit.

The reason why Nixon was taken down was because he had the media against him. The media is an extremely powerful ally to have, and when they are on your side you can pretty much get away with anything. The media are supposed to be the guardians of democracy. When the media willingly becomes a tool of the state, there is no defense left to a free society.

 

[ivwshane]

This just keeps on getting better:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/irs-head-face-flogging-lost-emails-24267625

Koskinen said congressional investigators were informed months ago that Lerner had computer problems back in 2011. Koskinen said emails provided to the committee last fall showed that Lerner's computer had crashed.

The emails indicate that Lerner had lost some data, though they don't explicitly say that Lerner's emails were lost. They were provided to congressional investigators as part of the tea party investigation.

"So it should be clear that no one has been keeping this information from Congress," Koskinen said.

I liked this snarky comment;

"It is not unusual for computers anywhere to fail, especially at the IRS in light of the aged equipment IRS employees often have to use in light of the continual cuts in its budget these past four years," Koskinen said. "Since Jan. 1 of this year, for example, over 2,000 employees have suffered hard drive crashes."

 

[michal1980]

This just keeps on getting better:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/irs-head-face-flogging-lost-emails-24267625




I liked this snarky comment;

I'm sure the IRS takes the 'crashed harddrive' as a legit excuse for audits

 

[fskimospy]

Wow, Werepossum has really lost it.

According to him we have an individual who knows that all the emails she has been writing on her work email account are part of a conspiracy with the White House to attack their political enemies but was so stupid as to do that on government computers anyway, but so savvy as to be able to engineer an irrecoverable hard drive crash to eliminate the evidence that appeared normal to the techs, only days after a letter was sent to someone else that primarily dealt with other issues, in anticipation of congressional subpoenas years later. Then, the rest of the IRS got in on the game and cancelled contracts, etc, all to hide these evil,conspiratorial emails.

Considering apparently she had the foresight to destroy things years in advance, why didn't she just use a private account or other means of communication that aren't so easily tracked or archived? By werepossum's conspiracy theory she has to be simultaneously a criminal mastermind and a moron.

It's funny that when confronted with contrary information he posts a huge list of links from right wing sites, not a single one of which has any actual evidence of any wrongdoing whatsoever, and then declares that anyone who disagrees with his conclusion to be stupid or in on the conspiracy. Classic werepossum. He can't be wrong, everyone else is just evil.

 

[boomerang]

I loves me some Trey Gowdy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avfm2urqdHM