IRS Scandal explodes. "no evidence that would support a criminal prosecution."

[werepossum]

Yawn. If you want to start a Gift Tax Scandal, start a thread for it. Your wall of text doesn't change the fact that Camp's letter said not a single word about the approval process, which is the foundation for the current IRS "scandal". If you remember, the current issue began when conservative groups complained their applications were being delayed, and TIGTA discovered the IRS was using partisan keywords to quickly identify political groups. It didn't begin in 2011 when Camp inquired about gift taxes, though it did involve the same of the IRS. This, of course, is why I specifically stated Camp picked this particular letter (out of so many) because it had "the right date range and general area of the IRS."

Also, your claim that Camp's letter was about "existing and application-pending conservative 501(c)(4) groups being audited ..." is a fabrication, so far as I can see. I found not a single word in Camp's letter about applicants or applications (which is what I said). If you can cite the piece I missed, please do. Without such a citation, I'm going to assume you just made it up in another failed attempt to support your conspiracy theory. Camp's letter had nothing to do with the current "scandal", demonstrating again that Lerner's drive crash came almost a year before Congress and lawyers turned their attention to the application review process.

Judicial Watch is suing the IRS, and is thus as partisan (and dishonest) as they come. While they are a handy source of original source materials, posted to their archives, their stories are trash. They are purely self-serving press releases, no more credible than OJ announcing he was going after the real killers. Fail.

Yes, clearly the IRS placing conservative applications in limbo, identifying their donors, auditing those donors, threatening those donors, and leaking the donors' identities to left wing groups where they are smeared are all completely separate "scandals". Just like the IRS requesting donor information for groups with pending applications and the IRS threatening and auditing those donors is naught but coincidence.

tl/dr: Dumbass.

I think the teap is just there to divert from Benghazi.
The missing apostrophe? You haven't heard of Fast and Furious lately, have you? I wonder why...

One big reason: Obama declared the entire government to be his counsel and therefore privileged information. Deciding to out-Nixon Nixon works as long as the press is compliant.

 

[DominionSeraph]

One big reason: Obama declared the entire government to be his counsel and therefore privileged information. Deciding to out-Nixon Nixon works as long as the press is compliant.

Oh that gurshed durned Obama! Where's a Republican-controlled House looking for any reason to impeach when you need one? Oh, I forgot, the daily clamoring by the far Right was just a Democratic fundraising plot all along.

 

[Bowfinger]

Yes, clearly the IRS placing conservative applications in limbo, identifying their donors, auditing those donors, threatening those donors, and leaking the donors' identities to left wing groups where they are smeared are all completely separate "scandals". Just like the IRS requesting donor information for groups with pending applications and the IRS threatening and auditing those donors is naught but coincidence.

tl/dr: Dumbass.

There's a dumbass alright, and I'm talking to him. I'll type slowly for you; see if you can keep up.

The premise of the lunatic conspiracy buffs is that Lerner trashed her own hard drive to conceal evidence in the IRS 501(c)(4) application targeting controversy. That theory lasted for about a day until we learned that her hard drive crashed in June, 2011, almost a year before the inquiries into that targeting began. All the rational people said, "So much for that theory." But the loons and their handlers were not to be deterred.

So, Camp checks his file full of IRS letters, finds one from about the same time involving non-profits, and announces to the world, "Oh no, this was the trigger that sent Lerner into a panic." The problem, of course, is Camp's letter had nothing to do with application targeting or the approval process. It was a routine inquiry about an unrelated issue -- gift taxes on 501(c)(4) contributions. No subpoenas, no calls to produce evidence and sworn testimony, no legal actions, nothing more than a list of questions requesting information and documentation, and nothing at all about the application process.

Although such 501(c)(4) contributions were subject to gift tax by law, the IRS had not been enforcing that law. When Republicans threw a fit that the IRS might actually enforce the law, the IRS quickly backed down. (Seems to be a theme here, about Republicans getting bent when the IRS tries to enforce laws concerning non-profits. It's almost like they know that it is predominately right-wing groups who are breaking such laws.)

Anyway, given that Camp's inquiry was routine, given that it had nothing to do with the IRS application approval process, and given that the gift tax issue died a quick death, there was absolutely no reason for Lerner to suddenly panic and destroy her hard drive. Couple this with the fact there was no evidence of external damage, yet the drive was so inoperable that IRS forensics experts couldn't access it with their specialized equipment, and any rational person will recognize that Lerner had neither the reason nor the technical means to do what the conspiracy nuts insist she did. It is, instead, a random drive crash, one of the 2.7% per year that group experienced from 2009 through 2014.

The conspiracy loons ignore all this, of course, because Lerner's hard drive is about all they have left. I feel bad for them. They have to keep the conspiracy alive so they can justify their hate. Hang in there. It sounds like the next TIGTA report is almost ready. It will surely contain new fuel for the conspiracy ... and if it doesn't, that will just "prove" the Inspector General is in on it too. It's a win-win!


Finally, I note you offer no defense for claiming Camp's letter somehow referred to "application-pending conservative 501(c)(4) groups." We'll take that as a tacit admission you lied again. You wouldn't have to make up so much fertilizer if your conspiracy actually had substance.

 

[werepossum]

There's a dumbass alright, and I'm talking to him. I'll type slowly for you; see if you can keep up.

The premise of the lunatic conspiracy buffs is that Lerner trashed her own hard drive to conceal evidence in the IRS 501(c)(4) application targeting controversy. That theory lasted for about a day until we learned that her hard drive crashed in June, 2011, almost a year before the inquiries into that targeting began. All the rational people said, "So much for that theory." But the loons and their handlers were not to be deterred.

So, Camp checks his file full of IRS letters, finds one from about the same time involving non-profits, and announces to the world, "Oh no, this was the trigger that sent Lerner into a panic." The problem, of course, is Camp's letter had nothing to do with application targeting or the approval process. It was a routine inquiry about an unrelated issue -- gift taxes on 501(c)(4) contributions. No subpoenas, no calls to produce evidence and sworn testimony, no legal actions, nothing more than a list of questions requesting information and documentation, and nothing at all about the application process.

Although such 501(c)(4) contributions were subject to gift tax by law, the IRS had not been enforcing that law. When Republicans threw a fit that the IRS might actually enforce the law, the IRS quickly backed down. (Seems to be a theme here, about Republicans getting bent when the IRS tries to enforce laws concerning non-profits. It's almost like they know that it is predominately right-wing groups who are breaking such laws.)

Anyway, given that Camp's inquiry was routine, given that it had nothing to do with the IRS application approval process, and given that the gift tax issue died a quick death, there was absolutely no reason for Lerner to suddenly panic and destroy her hard drive. Couple this with the fact there was no evidence of external damage, yet the drive was so inoperable that IRS forensics experts couldn't access it with their specialized equipment, and any rational person will recognize that Lerner had neither the reason nor the technical means to do what the conspiracy nuts insist she did. It is, instead, a random drive crash, one of the 2.7% per year that group experienced from 2009 through 2014.

The conspiracy loons ignore all this, of course, because Lerner's hard drive is about all they have left. I feel bad for them. They have to keep the conspiracy alive so they can justify their hate. Hang in there. It sounds like the next TIGTA report is almost ready. It will surely contain new fuel for the conspiracy ... and if it doesn't, that will just "prove" the Inspector General is in on it too. It's a win-win!


Finally, I note you offer no defense for claiming Camp's letter somehow referred to "application-pending conservative 501(c)(4) groups." We'll take that as a tacit admission you lied again. You wouldn't have to make up so much fertilizer if your conspiracy actually had substance.

We know for a fact that the IRS demanded donor lists from groups with pending applications. We know for a fact that the IRS contacted those individuals and threatened action for not filing gift tax returns, reversing a policy the IRS had followed for thirty-five years. If you wish to pretend those two facts are unconnected, it's a free country. Just don't expect to salvage any slight hint of credibility.

 

[ivwshane]

And the scandal is officially dead!!

What say you werepossum?

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/09...blicans-lied-irs-targeting-conservatives.html

In addition, the Subcommittee investigation found that, by focusing exclusively on how the IRS handled 501(c)(4) applications filed by conservative groups and excluding any comparative data on applications filed by liberal groups, the TIGTA audit produced distorted audit results that continue to be misinterpreted. The TIGTA audit engagement letter stated that the audit’s “overall objective” was to examine the “consistency” of IRS actions in identifying and reviewing 501(c)(4) applications, including whether “conservative groups” experienced “inconsistent treatment.” Instead, the audit focused solely on IRS treatment of conservative groups, and omitted any mention of other groups. For example, while the TIGTA report criticized the IRS for using “Tea Party,” “9/12,” and “Patriot” to identify applications filed by conservative groups, it left out that the IRS also used “Progressive,” “ACORN,” “Emerge,” and
“Occupy” to identify applications filed by liberal groups. While the TIGTA report criticized the IRS for subjecting conservative groups to delays, burdensome questions, and mismanagement, it failed to disclose that the IRS subjected liberal groups to the same treatment. The result was that when the TIGTA audit report presented data showing conservative groups were treated inappropriately, it was interpreted to mean conservative groups were handled differently and less favorably than liberal groups, when in fact, both groups experienced the same mistreatment. By excluding any analysis of how liberal groups were handled and failing to provide critical context In addition, the Subcommittee investigation found that, by focusing exclusively on how the IRS handled 501(c)(4) applications filed by conservative groups and excluding any comparative data on applications filed by liberal groups, the TIGTA audit produced distorted audit results that continue to be misinterpreted. The TIGTA audit engagement letter stated that the audit’s “overall objective” was to examine the “consistency” of IRS actions in identifying and reviewing 501(c)(4) applications, including whether “conservative groups” experienced “inconsistent treatment.” Instead, the audit focused solely on IRS treatment of conservative groups, and omitted any mention of other groups. For example, while the TIGTA report criticized the IRS for using “Tea Party,” “9/12,” and “Patriot” to identify applications filed by conservative groups, it left out that the IRS also used “Progressive,” “ACORN,” “Emerge,” and
“Occupy” to identify applications filed by liberal groups. While the TIGTA report criticized the IRS for subjecting conservative groups to delays, burdensome questions, and mismanagement, it failed to disclose that the IRS subjected liberal groups to the same treatment. The result was that when the TIGTA audit report presented data showing conservative groups were treated inappropriately, it was interpreted to mean conservative groups were handled differently and less favorably than liberal groups, when in fact, both groups experienced the same mistreatment. By excluding any analysis of how liberal groups were handled and failing to provide critical context for its findings, the TIGTA audit inaccurately and unfairly damaged public confidence in the impartiality of the IRS.

 

[DominionSeraph]

And the scandal is officially dead!!

It will NEVER be over because conservative groups were targeted! It must be because Obama is racist against white people!

 

[Matt1970]

Great. So Lerner can have her job back. No wrong doing right? That's right, even though left wing groups were targeted, it was no where near the scale of the right wing groups.

 

[Matt1970]

There's a dumbass alright, and I'm talking to him. I'll type slowly for you; see if you can keep up.

You do realize we don't see your text as you type it?

 

[Jhhnn]

Great. So Lerner can have her job back. No wrong doing right? That's right, even though left wing groups were targeted, it was no where near the scale of the right wing groups.

Maybe that's because there were enormously more 501(c)4 applications from right wing groups, dunno. Maybe somebody has the numbers. Left leaning groups don't seem to feel the need to anonymize donations nearly so much as right leaning groups, so they mostly use different structures.

Lerner? She took her retirement, got a new job, too. Maybe doing better than ever.

 

[Attic]

Amazing how much wrong with the where the country is politically is epitomized in this thread.

It's a case study in doublethink. Obviously arguing against it leads nowhere, it's not a rational debate.

I don't think for a minute anyone is stupid enough to only believe what the IRS did was ok here or that the emails disappeared by pure chance. It's very likely that the belief "it was ok" or "a non issue" was born shortly after the realization that what the IRS did was in fact not ok. Then all one has to do is hold both beliefs and apply them selectively to suit a need.

Fortunately the support and defense of the IRS "story" outside of the typical politician scumbags largely begins and dies in this thread.

 

[Matt1970]

Maybe that's because there were enormously more 501(c)4 applications from right wing groups, dunno. Maybe somebody has the numbers. Left leaning groups don't seem to feel the need to anonymize donations nearly so much as right leaning groups, so they mostly use different structures.

Do you have proof of any of that? You guys all criticize the right for making speculations on this and then you lay this pile of sticking foo.

 

[Jhhnn]

Do you have proof of any of that? You guys all criticize the right for making speculations on this and then you lay this pile of sticking foo.

I did not represent speculation as fact, and made it clear to anybody with more than half of a propaganda addled brain that I was, in fact, speculating.

Contrast this with Attic's approach where he represents his own speculation to be gospel.

 

[Matt1970]

I did not represent speculation as fact, and made it clear to anybody with more than half of a propaganda addled brain that I was, in fact, speculating.

Contrast this with Attic's approach where he represents his own speculation to be gospel.

Which is the exact thing you and Bowfinger have filled page after page of bitching at the right for doing.

 

[ivwshane]

Great. So Lerner can have her job back. No wrong doing right? That's right, even though left wing groups were targeted, it was no where near the scale of the right wing groups.

Do you have proof of any of that? You guys all criticize the right for making speculations on this and then you lay this pile of sticking foo.

Here you go again! I linked to the god damn senate report that addressed all of your false talking points and instead of acknowledging the facts and seeing what this "scandal" was, a joke and intentional misleading from the beginning, you double down on stupid!


For christ's sakes! Pull your head out of your ass! This "scandal" is over!
Not only did they find incompetence, poor management, and improper targeting, they found that there was no political intent behind it and they identified why such targeting was done in the first place, a lack of clarification on how to enforce the law.

Now if you and anyone else want to continue your republican talking points, I'll address each post by linking to the senate document and pointing out your complete stupidity

 

[Jhhnn]

Which is the exact thing you and Bowfinger have filled page after page of bitching at the right for doing.

You are exceptionally dense & obtuse this morning. Congratulations.

Speculation presented as fact is different from speculation openly presented for what it is. There are also different levels of reasonableness wrt speculation depending on underlying facts.

If, for example, 90% of applications were from right leaning groups, then one could reasonably expect that 90% of issues would arise wrt them.

I'm not saying that's the case because I don't have the numbers. I did, in truth, ask for input from anybody who might.

If that doesn't fit your agenda, I'd suggest you examine that agenda a bit more closely.

 

[Matt1970]

Here you go again! I linked to the god damn senate report that addressed all of your false talking points and instead of acknowledging the facts and seeing what this "scandal" was, a joke and intentional misleading from the beginning, you double down on stupid!


For christ's sakes! Pull your head out of your ass! This "scandal" is over!
Not only did they find incompetence, poor management, and improper targeting, they found that there was no political intent behind it and they identified why such targeting was done in the first place, a lack of clarification on how to enforce the law.

Now if you and anyone else want to continue your republican talking points, I'll address each post by linking to the senate document and pointing out your complete stupidity

There's only one person's head up their ass here. Improper targeting but it wasn't political? LOL, ok.

 

[Matt1970]

Yes, clearly the IRS placing conservative applications in limbo, identifying their donors, auditing those donors, threatening those donors, and leaking the donors' identities to left wing groups where they are smeared are all completely separate "scandals". Just like the IRS requesting donor information for groups with pending applications and the IRS threatening and auditing those donors is naught but coincidence.

tl/dr: Dumbass.

Yep, and perfectly plausible.

 

[ivwshane]

There's only one person's head up their ass here. Improper targeting but it wasn't political? LOL, ok.

And here's the double down on stupidity!

Go ahead and present your "facts" to the bi-partisan senate sub committee who did the investigation, apparently you have info that they missed!

 

[Matt1970]

And here's the double down on stupidity!

Go ahead and present your "facts" to the bi-partisan senate sub committee who did the investigation, apparently you have info that they missed!

I am sure they just flipped a coin to see who to target.

 

[trenchfoot]

Here you go again! I linked to the god damn senate report that addressed all of your false talking points and instead of acknowledging the facts and seeing what this "scandal" was, a joke and intentional misleading from the beginning, you double down on stupid!


For christ's sakes! Pull your head out of your ass! This "scandal" is over!
Not only did they find incompetence, poor management, and improper targeting, they found that there was no political intent behind it and they identified why such targeting was done in the first place, a lack of clarification on how to enforce the law.

Now if you and anyone else want to continue your republican talking points, I'll address each post by linking to the senate document and pointing out your complete stupidity

I found out very early in life that quite often stubbornness has a descending rate of return in benefits and a proportionate ascending rate of return in loss of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You'd have thought some folks would have caught on to that by now.

 

[Matt1970]

I found out very early in life that quite often stubbornness has a descending rate of return in benefits and a proportionate ascending rate of return in loss of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You'd have thought some folks would have caught on to that by now.

Not believing the word of the government leads to loss of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Ya, I wonder why that hasn't caught on to that by now

 

[trenchfoot]

Not believing the word of the government leads to loss of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Ya, I wonder why that hasn't caught on to that by now

6 out of 10.

Aww, c'mon, Matt, I've seen you do much better than that.

 

[Bowfinger]

I am sure they just flipped a coin to see who to target.

I'm not sure if you're truly that slow, or just shamelessly dishonest. We know the IRS used partisan keywords to help quickly identify political groups that might be breaking the law. The IRS acknowledged this and apologized for it. The question -- always -- has been whether there was partisan intent, or merely an ill-considered shortcut.

 

[Bowfinger]

You do realize we don't see your text as you type it?

It's called sarcasm, sonny. Why don't you go play. I will say it is touching seeing you bonding with Werepossum in a show of dumbass solidarity.

 

[Bowfinger]

And the scandal is officially dead!!

What say you werepossum?

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/09...blicans-lied-irs-targeting-conservatives.html

People have been asking where are the explosions promised in the thread title. I think that report may have triggered them, in the heads of the Fox faithful. Nice.