IRS Scandal explodes. "no evidence that would support a criminal prosecution."

[bshole]

One very troubling thing is clear though - Obama and his Congressional Democrats and many if not most of their supporters believe that the IRS's actions are how government should work.

And it doesn't bother you that a few billionaires can create dozens of front organizations to gain absolute control of the entire poltical system of a country..... creating an oligarchy whose sole purpose is to protect and enrich a very small cadre of wealthy vermin?

If anyone has the brazen balls to impede this gross desecration of human rights, one has only to look at the witch hunt of the IRS HEROES to see what happens. Each of those employees deserves a Medal of Honor for their actions. They risked everything to protect America. Unfortunately some will now have to pay a horrible price for their bravery and patriotism. The jack-booted freedom-hating jackals of the right-wing have found themselves a bone and are looking to gnaw.

 

[TerryMathews]

And it doesn't bother you that a few billionaires can create dozens of front organizations to gain absolute control of the entire poltical system of a country..... creating an oligarchy whose sole purpose is to protect and enrich a very small cadre of wealthy vermin?

If anyone has the brazen balls to impede this gross desecration of human rights, one has only to look at the witch hunt of the IRS HEROES to see what happens. Each of those employees deserves a Medal of Honor for their actions. They risked everything to protect America. Unfortunately some will now have to pay a horrible price for their bravery and patriotism. The jack-booted freedom-hating jackals of the right-wing have found themselves a bone and are looking to gnaw.

Someone forgot to take their meds today.

 

[werepossum]

That is the biggest issue here. The biggest issue isn't really that the IRS abused conservative groups -- we all know that already. Trying to determine the motivation behind the abuse, who was responsible, how exactly it came to be etc has become the big circus. The disconcerting reality is that the left has circled the wagons and finds the behavior (the abuse of people based on political affiliation) as acceptable, and has done everything to hinder any investigation and keep the truth hidden because they view it as potentially politically damaging.

Personally, I don't see any evidence to indicate that it was obummer himself that gave the orders, but it sure looks like other loyal followers in various places in the IRS (people like Lerner, Sands etc) used their positions to help 'further the cause'. That concept should scare everyone.

Agreed.

And it doesn't bother you that a few billionaires can create dozens of front organizations to gain absolute control of the entire poltical system of a country..... creating an oligarchy whose sole purpose is to protect and enrich a very small cadre of wealthy vermin?

If anyone has the brazen balls to impede this gross desecration of human rights, one has only to look at the witch hunt of the IRS HEROES to see what happens. Each of those employees deserves a Medal of Honor for their actions. They risked everything to protect America. Unfortunately some will now have to pay a horrible price for their bravery and patriotism. The jack-booted freedom-hating jackals of the right-wing have found themselves a bone and are looking to gnaw.

The IRS mostly impeded the actions of the little guys. Billionaires (including Soros, who is as active as anyone and holds views almost completely antithetical to America) are impeded little since they don't really need tax breaks. And even with the little guys, the IRS impeded ONLY those on one political side. That should scare anyone, even if one agrees philosophically with those who benefited. When government begins to favor one side and apply the protections of law to only one side we are headed toward becoming a one-party nation, and one-party nations are uniformly corrupt and authoritarian.

And as far as "jack-booted freedom-hating jackals of the right-wing", it's not the ring wing that has massively expanded government's ability and inclination to spy on American citizens, or made astronomical increases in surveiling and intimidating journalists, or made the law of the land government's "right" to take your home and give it to some rich person if he promises more tax revenue, or decided that government had the freakin' right to decide what you may order for lunch. The left is at least as anti-freedom as the right.

 

[hal2kilo]

Agreed.


The IRS mostly impeded the actions of the little guys. Billionaires (including Soros, who is as active as anyone and holds views almost completely antithetical to America) are impeded little since they don't really need tax breaks. And even with the little guys, the IRS impeded ONLY those on one political side. That should scare anyone, even if one agrees philosophically with those who benefited. When government begins to favor one side and apply the protections of law to only one side we are headed toward becoming a one-party nation, and one-party nations are uniformly corrupt and authoritarian.

And as far as "jack-booted freedom-hating jackals of the right-wing", it's not the ring wing that has massively expanded government's ability and inclination to spy on American citizens, or made astronomical increases in surveiling and intimidating journalists, or made the law of the land government's "right" to take your home and give it to some rich person if he promises more tax revenue, or decided that government had the freakin' right to decide what you may order for lunch. The left is at least as anti-freedom as the right.

Yea, all NSA spying got ramped up after Obama got into office. I'm sure there wasn't a long term plan supported by previous administrations of all stripes to persue this technology. Oh, by the way, I think it has sucked from the begginning, but I understand your need to blame everthing that's wrong with the country on obama.

 

[fskimospy]

Yea, all NSA spying got ramped up after Obama got into office. I'm sure there wasn't a long term plan supported by previous administrations of all stripes to persue this technology. Oh, by the way, I think it has sucked from the begginning, but I understand your need to blame everthing that's wrong with the country on obama.

It's amazing how quickly conservatives forget that these programs by the NSA were ones that conservatives created and aggressively championed for years. Obama is at fault for continuing them, but let's not fool ourselves here.

 

[werepossum]

Yea, all NSA spying got ramped up after Obama got into office. I'm sure there wasn't a long term plan supported by previous administrations of all stripes to persue this technology. Oh, by the way, I think it has sucked from the begginning, but I understand your need to blame everthing that's wrong with the country on obama.

I don't blame everything that's wrong with the country on Obama, but neither do I consider him a helpless victim unable to control the Executive Branch because evil Republicans put in place their master plan.

 

[PokerGuy]

It's amazing how quickly conservatives forget that these programs by the NSA were ones that conservatives created and aggressively championed for years. Obama is at fault for continuing them, but let's not fool ourselves here.

That's one of the issues where I strongly diverge from many conservatives. I'm not in favor of the huge military industrial complex nor am I in favor of massive NSC/government spying on citizens without suspicion and appropriate checks and balances. This stuff started looooooong before obummer, but I do blame him for not taking steps to curb it (he's actually doubled down on it). It just so happens that obummer is president at a time when rapid technology change has made spying and tracking on a level unimaginable just years ago available. Future presidents will have even more power available to them, and it's important that we set the boundaries asap.

 

[Bowfinger]

The IRS mostly impeded the actions of the little guys. Billionaires (including Soros, who is as active as anyone and holds views almost completely antithetical to America) are impeded little since they don't really need tax breaks.

This controversy has zero to do with tax breaks and everything to do with anonymity, specifically funneling anonymous money into political advocay (i.e., covert campaign support). If you were making any honest attempt to understand the facts of this story, you would know this by now. It has been explained dozens of times.

And even with the little guys, the IRS impeded ONLY those on one political side. ...

No matter how many times you repeat that lie, it remains a lie. In fact, the ONLY groups whose applications were denied were left-wing groups (unless that's the "one political side" you mean). There are also left-wing groups that reported similarly intrusive questioning. Those lefties took it in stride, however, instead of playing the victim card. Not surprisingly, Issa didn't bother to call any of those lefties to his witch hunt.

But thank you for demonstrating my point yet again. The problem remains you conspiracy nuts have embraced all the innuendo, supposition, and outright lies as if they are factual. The real facts aren't nearly so scandalous and one-sided.

 

[Bowfinger]

That's one of the issues where I strongly diverge from many conservatives. I'm not in favor of the huge military industrial complex nor am I in favor of massive NSC/government spying on citizens without suspicion and appropriate checks and balances. This stuff started looooooong before obummer, but I do blame him for not taking steps to curb it (he's actually doubled down on it). It just so happens that obummer is president at a time when rapid technology change has made spying and tracking on a level unimaginable just years ago available. Future presidents will have even more power available to them, and it's important that we set the boundaries asap.

That is something I can agree with. While Obama didn't start it, he also has done virtually nothing to reign it in, let alone stop it. It's a pity such a real scandal is buried under the bogus noise of things like Benghazi and the IRS, but of course Republican leaders largely support these Big Brother abuses just as much as Obama and other Democratic leaders.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

It's amazing how quickly conservatives forget that these programs by the NSA were ones that conservatives created and aggressively championed for years. Obama is at fault for continuing them, but let's not fool ourselves here.

Yes, let's not fool ourselves here, the Clinton administration championed this as well. It's amazing how quickly liberals forget! :biggrin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software)

 

[Bowfinger]

[ ... ]It is worth pointing out though that Obama's "Justice" Department has been giving cover to the IRS ...

Yup, it's all a big conspiracy. You better drop it or they'll haul you off to the FEMA camps.

One very troubling thing is clear though - Obama and his Congressional Democrats and many if not most of their supporters believe that the IRS's actions are how government should work.

No argument is unsupportable for a man who buys straw by the trainload.

That is the biggest issue here. The biggest issue isn't really that the IRS abused conservative groups -- we all know that already. ...

What you call abuse, anti-corruption people call due diligence. You (as a group) conveniently ignore that most of these applications were for blatantly political advocacy groups that did not qualify as 501(c)(4) social welfare organizations. They were trying to scam the IRS. And once again, some liberal groups were subject to the same scrutiny. It appears lopsided because there were reportedly far more Tea Party-type applications than liberal applications following the Citizens United ruling.

I don't see any evidence to indicate that it was obummer himself that gave the orders, but it sure looks like other loyal followers in various places in the IRS (people like Lerner, Sands etc) used their positions to help 'further the cause'. That concept should scare everyone.

And yet again, Sands has nothing to do with the IRS. She worked at the FEC.

 

[werepossum]

This controversy has zero to do with tax breaks and everything to do with anonymity, specifically funneling anonymous money into political advocay (i.e., covert campaign support). If you were making any honest attempt to understand the facts of this story, you would know this by now. It has been explained dozens of times.


No matter how many times you repeat that lie, it remains a lie. In fact, the ONLY groups whose applications were denied were left-wing groups (unless that's the "one political side" you mean). There are also left-wing groups that reported similarly intrusive questioning. Those lefties took it in stride, however, instead of playing the victim card. Not surprisingly, Issa didn't bother to call any of those lefties to his witch hunt.

But thank you for demonstrating my point yet again. The problem remains you conspiracy nuts have embraced all the innuendo, supposition, and outright lies as if they are factual. The real facts aren't nearly so scandalous and one-sided.

Dude, that's just willfully and stupidly dishonest. Except for a couple, all the left wing groups were approved in a few months, whereas all the right wing groups lingered in limbo for years. In some ways that's worse than being denied since there's nothing to fight. One can file paperwork to show that grounds for denial are unjust; one can't fight an application just never coming out. In addition, zero felonies were committed leaking left wing groups' privileged information to right wing groups.

Yes, let's not fool ourselves here, the Clinton administration championed this as well. It's amazing how quickly liberals forget! :biggrin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software)

I remember when that started up. It had to be started under Bush I or even Reagan, takes too much time to build something like that. And Carnivore too was a replacement for an earlier system, which was a replacement for an earlier system, which was . . . It's just that up until Snowden we USED to believe this was directed at actual enemies.

 

[werepossum]

Yup, it's all a big conspiracy. You better drop it or they'll haul you off to the FEMA camps.

No argument is unsupportable for a man who buys straw by the trainload.

What you call abuse, anti-corruption people call due diligence. You (as a group) conveniently ignore that most of these applications were for blatantly political advocacy groups that did not qualify as 501(c)(4) social welfare organizations. They were trying to scam the IRS. And once again, some liberal groups were subject to the same scrutiny. It appears lopsided because there were reportedly far more Tea Party-type applications than liberal applications following the Citizens United ruling.


And yet again, Sands has nothing to do with the IRS. She worked at the FEC.

You (as a group) conveniently ignore that the IRS was unable to find any legitimate reason to reject most if any of these applications which we all know were for blatantly political advocacy groups that did not qualify as 501(c)(4) social welfare organizations. Even though we all know they were trying to scam the IRS. Evidently your preferred government is one that simply knows things and acts on them and to Hell with the law and due process - as long as it has the correct bias anyway.

 

[Matt1970]

That is something I can agree with. While Obama didn't start it, he also has done virtually nothing to reign it in, let alone stop it. It's a pity such a real scandal is buried under the bogus noise of things like Benghazi and the IRS, but of course Republican leaders largely support these Big Brother abuses just as much as Obama and other Democratic leaders.

Let's not forget it was Obama who campaigned on ending this but decided once in office to instead take it to a whole new level.

 

[hal2kilo]

That's one of the issues where I strongly diverge from many conservatives. I'm not in favor of the huge military industrial complex nor am I in favor of massive NSC/government spying on citizens without suspicion and appropriate checks and balances. This stuff started looooooong before obummer, but I do blame him for not taking steps to curb it (he's actually doubled down on it). It just so happens that obummer is president at a time when rapid technology change has made spying and tracking on a level unimaginable just years ago available. Future presidents will have even more power available to them, and it's important that we set the boundaries asap.

I see that every once in a while we can agree on something.

 

[Bowfinger]

Dude, that's just willfully and stupidly dishonest. Except for a couple, all the left wing groups were approved in a few months, whereas all the right wing groups lingered in limbo for years.

Yes, yes, we've all heard that propaganda point. Prove it.

In some ways that's worse than being denied since there's nothing to fight. One can file paperwork to show that grounds for denial are unjust; one can't fight an application just never coming out.

Sure you can. You can sue, which is exactly what happened. Do you know any of the facts of this story at all, or is parroting talking points the extent of it?

In addition, zero felonies were committed leaking left wing groups' privileged information to right wing groups.

And I've said from the beginning that this should be investigated and any wrongdoing prosecuted. Of course Fern said there is no confidential information for these groups, at least when the IRS told Issa it had to review and redact the files he demanded. So I'm not completely sure which complaint is true, or whether the truth is somewhere in the middle.

You (as a group) conveniently ignore that the IRS was unable to find any legitimate reason to reject most if any of these applications which we all know were for blatantly political advocacy groups that did not qualify as 501(c)(4) social welfare organizations. Even though we all know they were trying to scam the IRS. Evidently your preferred government is one that simply knows things and acts on them and to Hell with the law and due process - as long as it has the correct bias anyway.

More lies and straw men, there's a shocker. It is not true that the IRS was unable to find legitimate reasons to reject these apps. That's another whopper pulled straight from your rectum. (Just like your lie that the Obama administration claimed 60% of the targeted groups were not conservative, a lie you've never shown the integrity to acknowledge.) As far as your straw man about my "preferred government", go stuff yourself. Your incessant straw stuffing is boring and Inconsequential-level useless.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Sure you can. You can sue, which is exactly what happened. Do you know any of the facts of this story at all, or is parroting talking points the extent of it?

There are actually rules which prevent one from suing until a set amount of time has expired. It's a fairly long wait IIRC.

This started how long ago? And AFAIK, the suits haven't been heard/settled yet. It's a remedy, albeit a poor one and quite expensive at that.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

There are actually rules which prevent one from suing until a set amount of time has expired. It's a fairly long wait IIRC.

This started how long ago? And AFAIK, the suits haven't been heard/settled yet. It's a remedy, albeit a poor one and quite expensive at that.

Fern

Legal fees can be paid in complete anonymity.

 

[werepossum]

Yes, yes, we've all heard that propaganda point. Prove it.

Sure you can. You can sue, which is exactly what happened. Do you know any of the facts of this story at all, or is parroting talking points the extent of it?

And I've said from the beginning that this should be investigated and any wrongdoing prosecuted. Of course Fern said there is no confidential information for these groups, at least when the IRS told Issa it had to review and redact the files he demanded. So I'm not completely sure which complaint is true, or whether the truth is somewhere in the middle.

More lies and straw men, there's a shocker. It is not true that the IRS was unable to find legitimate reasons to reject these apps. That's another whopper pulled straight from your rectum. (Just like your lie that the Obama administration claimed 60% of the targeted groups were not conservative, a lie you've never shown the integrity to acknowledge.) As far as your straw man about my "preferred government", go stuff yourself. Your incessant straw stuffing is boring and Inconsequential-level useless.

All these things are linked in this very thread. Please don't ask me to waste my time finding things we both know you will ignore. You have made your position quite plain - the left wing gets the benefit of law and government, and the right wing gets to fight for it in court. All hail the new Jim Crow era, I suppose.

 

[Bowfinger]

All these things are linked in this very thread. Please don't ask me to waste my time finding things we both know you will ignore. You have made your position quite plain - the left wing gets the benefit of law and government, and the right wing gets to fight for it in court. All hail the new Jim Crow era, I suppose.

That's a cowardly cop-out, even for you. And what we all know is you are lying. Go play. You still have nothing to contribute to this story.

 

[BoberFett]

Hi, I'm BoberFett. Long time reader, first time poster.

This thread is still going?

I'm still amazed the title says "teap party"

 

[ivwshane]

All these things are linked in this very thread. Please don't ask me to waste my time finding things we both know you will ignore. You have made your position quite plain - the left wing gets the benefit of law and government, and the right wing gets to fight for it in court. All hail the new Jim Crow era, I suppose.

And you continue to ignore that "left wing" groups were also target.

Don't complain about people ignoring information while you do exactly the same thing!

 

[Bowfinger]

There are actually rules which prevent one from suing until a set amount of time has expired. It's a fairly long wait IIRC. ...

Nine months, if memory serves, but I couldn't find it again with a quick Google search.

 

[Bowfinger]

Hi, I'm BoberFett. Long time reader, first time poster.

This thread is still going?

I'm still amazed the title says "teap party"

Telepaths: teaps. They throw amazing parties.

 

[Matt1970]

And you continue to ignore that "left wing" groups were also target.

Don't complain about people ignoring information while you do exactly the same thing!

Let me know in here where she admits to targeting left wing groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7bejjpWH4I&feature=player_detailpage#t=137