IRS confesses to inappropriately targeting conservative groups.

[nageov3t]

I can't imagine that Obama (or anyone important in the White House) has the time to care about what low-level IRS agents are doing.

but I'd still like to see the agents involved get fired (along with any supervisors who were involved with sweeping it under the rug)

 

[BoberFett]

I can't imagine that Obama (or anyone important in the White House) has the time to care about what low-level IRS agents are doing.

but I'd still like to see the agents involved get fired (along with any supervisors who were involved with sweeping it under the rug)

When some low level grunts in Iraq were abusing prisoners, it was Bush's fault. Obama and his ardent supporters are exactly like Bush and his supporters.

 

[nageov3t]

When some low level grunts in Iraq were abusing prisoners, it was Bush's fault. Obama and his ardent supporters are exactly like Bush and his supporters.

was it? I don't recall ever thinking so (outside of it being Bush's fault that we were even involved in the Iraqi clusterfuck)

 

[woolfe9998]

When some low level grunts in Iraq were abusing prisoners, it was Bush's fault. Obama and his ardent supporters are exactly like Bush and his supporters.

Bush didn't have anything directly to do with the prisoner abuses. He was indirectly responsible because he made a bad decision to go to war there, and also backed the grand strategy of under-resourcing the occupation.

Your analogy here fails. Even if Bush was wrongly blamed, blaming Obama for something he had nothing to do with wouldn't be justified.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Last I heard (late last week) was that the IRS had no plans to discipline the 'low level' workers. Have senior officials at the IRS changed their minds?

 

[FerrelGeek]

Ding ding ding. You win the door prize!

It is my dearest hope that some day, you get royally screwed over by a .gov policy that you cheered for.

 

[palehorse]

I can't imagine that Obama (or anyone important in the White House) has the time to care about what low-level IRS agents are doing.

but I'd still like to see the agents involved get fired (along with any supervisors who were involved with sweeping it under the rug)

I think some people are hoping for a link between those low level IRS personnel and Obama's campaign staff. If that were to surface, this story would take on a whole new meaning.

I doubt they'll find one, but that's my guess...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Bush didn't have anything directly to do with the prisoner abuses. He was indirectly responsible because he made a bad decision to go to war there, and also backed the grand strategy of under-resourcing the occupation.

Your analogy here fails. Even if Bush was wrongly blamed, blaming Obama for something he had nothing to do with wouldn't be justified.

There is a point however. Those who hold one to a certain level of accountability ought to hold others to the same. In the case of Bush, much blame was laid at his feet whether right or wrongly based. Some of those who did so hold Obama to a different standard. That's neither about Bush nor Obama, but it is about supporters of both.

 

[fskimospy]

There is a point however. Those who hold one to a certain level of accountability ought to hold others to the same. In the case of Bush, much blame was laid at his feet whether right or wrongly based. Some of those who did so hold Obama to a different standard. That's neither about Bush nor Obama, but it is about supporters of both.

I just don't see how these two relate well. I think a good corollary would be the health care bill. If someone dies due to some mismanagement, whatever due to policy changes Obama enacted in the health care bill I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold Obama responsible in a sense for that.

Some low level jackass in the IRS doing something dumb? That's an awfully big stretch.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I just don't see how these two relate well. I think a good corollary would be the health care bill. If someone dies due to some mismanagement, whatever due to policy changes Obama enacted in the health care bill I think it's perfectly reasonable to hold Obama responsible in a sense for that.

Some low level jackass in the IRS doing something dumb? That's an awfully big stretch.

It relates because the assumption in the case of Bush and Obama is that both knew all the wrongs that were being done. We're talking purposeful wrongdoings by others under a sitting President. With health care the injury would be incidental, unless someone intentionally harms another. That's the key, "intentional".

 

[monovillage]

Will noted that one of the items in the 1973 impeachment articles of then-President Richard Nixon, which ultimately led to his resignation, described the Nixon administration’s use of the power of income tax audits in a “discriminatory matter.”

“This is the 40th anniversary of the Watergate summer here in Washington,” Will said. “’He has, through his subordinated and agents, endeavored…to cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, income tax audits or other income tax investigation to be initiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner,’ — Section 1, Article 2, the impeachment articles of Richard Nixon

Since 2010 now.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/12/g...arty-attacks-how-stupid-do-they-think-we-are/

 

[Matt1970]

^^^ Apparently there is no statute of limitations on diversions.

 

[soundforbjt]

Yes, he is scum, but that is beyond a stretch.

IMO that is utterly unsubstantiated speculation from a partisan trying to distract.

Is it anymore of a strecth then those implying Obama did it?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Since 2010 now.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/12/g...arty-attacks-how-stupid-do-they-think-we-are/

Nixon was caught, but Obama was not.

The real lesson learned from Nixon was by his successors. It doesn't matter what Obama did or did not do as there would be no difference in appearance. Levels of "plausible deniability" are built in. Take Ron Regan. Who took the hit? Ollie North. Why? Because he was about as high as it could go so it was his head on the chopping block. There is a distinct difference between what you know and what you think you know.

 

[fskimospy]

Since 2010 now.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/12/g...arty-attacks-how-stupid-do-they-think-we-are/

Wow are you guys stretching now. Also, LOL @ George Will. How that guy is still employed....

 

[boomerang]

Look at the groups that were targeted (the list is growing) where they are located and where they needed to file IRS documents. This purportedly came out of the Cincinnati office. Were these groups all centered in the midwest? This was much more than a couple of prog IRS agents that decided to go rogue. The WH will try to pin it on the lowest level individuals they can, but unfortunately for the WH, the press is running with this story. It's almost like we have a fifth estate again. Time will tell.

 

[Matt1970]

Look at the groups that were targeted (the list is growing) where they are located and where they needed to file IRS documents. This purportedly came out of the Cincinnati office. Were these groups all centered in the midwest? This was much more than a couple of prog IRS agents that decided to go rogue. The WH will try to pin it on the lowest level individuals they can, but unfortunately for the WH, the press is running with this story. It's almost like we have a fifth estate again. Time will tell.

Always have a fall guy. They are learning.

 

[fskimospy]

Always have a fall guy. They are learning.

Who is learning? Can you tell us what you think happened in this case?

 

[glenn1]

This is something totally inexcusable, and certainly everyone responsible for that decision as well as that bureau should be canned immediately.

That being said, it is highly, highly unlikely that Obama had anything to do with it. Why even bring him up?

I don't blame Obama or think he was involved (even indirectly), but this is an instance where he should take the lead. The IRS needs to be seen as impartial and apolitical, so he can't simply duck and cover since the people involve ultimately report up to him (albeit a few dozen layers further down the org chart). Appointing an independent special investigator would be good start to show he's taking it seriously and seeking to put measures in place to prevent a recurrence in his or any future administrations.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I don't blame Obama or think he was involved (even indirectly), but this is an instance where he should take the lead. The IRS needs to be seen as impartial and apolitical, so he can't simply duck and cover since the people involve ultimately report up to him (albeit a few dozen layers further down the org chart). Appointing an independent special investigator would be good start to show he's taking it seriously and seeking to put measures in place to prevent a recurrence in his or any future administrations.

Agreed in total.

Bush didn't have anything directly to do with the prisoner abuses. He was indirectly responsible because he made a bad decision to go to war there, and also backed the grand strategy of under-resourcing the occupation.

The indirectness of the White House involvement in this is debatable. There's a fair bit of evidence that some rather high-up people knew what was going on there. My guess is there was also a lot of looking the other way -- after all, these people think torture is acceptable to this day.

I don't believe anyone high up in the Bush administration has ever been held accountable for the various disasters they created during their term.

 

[fskimospy]

Agreed in total.



The indirectness of the White House involvement in this is debatable. There's a fair bit of evidence that some rather high-up people knew what was going on there. My guess is there was also a lot of looking the other way -- after all, these people think torture is acceptable to this day.

I don't believe anyone high up in the Bush administration has ever been held accountable for the various disasters they created during their term.

It actually looks like Obama's appointee was explicitly working to eliminate any bias, so kudos there. But yes, the IRS is one of the last places you want to see politicized.

 

[HomerJS]

Look at the groups that were targeted (the list is growing) where they are located and where they needed to file IRS documents. This purportedly came out of the Cincinnati office. Were these groups all centered in the midwest? This was much more than a couple of prog IRS agents that decided to go rogue. The WH will try to pin it on the lowest level individuals they can, but unfortunately for the WH, the press is running with this story. It's almost like we have a fifth estate again. Time will tell.

Because that office had the task of vetting all 503 C4 applications. Where groups were located had no bearing.

 

[BoberFett]

"The buck stops there. Or maybe over there. If possible, way, way over there. But certainly not here." - Harry S Truman

 

[PokerGuy]

The village idiot (obummer) came out with a statement calling the actions of the IRS agents "outrageous". He's trying desperately to keep this under control.

The bottom line is that I don't think you can blame obummer for this, but those involved should be punished severely, including immediate termination without pension. The public trust in certain agencies (like the IRS, FBI etc) to be apolitical is critical. Undermining that trust should carry significant punishment to dissuade others from doing similar things in the future. A simple slap on the wrist and "don't do that again <wink wink> " is not going to cut it.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

The village idiot (obummer) came out with a statement calling the actions of the IRS agents "outrageous". He's trying desperately to keep this under control.

When he doesn't say anything, you guys criticize him for avoiding the issue. Then when he comes out and strongly condemns what happened, you accuse him of "trying desperately to keep this under control".

Being only willing to criticize anything the president does, no matter what it is -- that's pure partisan asshole behavior.