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Irene was no Hurricane at landfall

Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
The story of Irene's hype is an incredible tale of mass lying.

The Nation Hurricane Center (NHC), and media, kept calling Irene a Hurricane almost a full day after landfall even though it fell apart before landfall.

I don't particularly blame the media, for they all rely on the same source - and the source got it wrong. The only way we know they were wrong is through emperical evidence. Thanks to the landfall location we have a record of weather stations at our disposal. Perhaps the NHC does not take weather stations into account when declaring the strength of storms. I can only assume they do not, for if they did, why ignore the data?

In lue of this mistake comes an interesting twist. The last Hurricane to make landfall on the United States was Ike back in 2008. It has, as of today, been 1,083 days. The longest period without a Hurricane landfall since before the Civil War.

Without Irene being a Hurricane, this record setting dry spell continues. It may end later this season, but it did not end last week. Will the NHC correct the record and admit their mistake?

Tropical Storm Irene

When is a hurricane not a hurricane? Well, when it doesn’t blow 64 knots (33 m/sec, 74 mph), because then it’s only a tropical storm. Inspired by a post over at the Cliff Mass Weather Blog, I’ve been trying to find a single report of sustained hurricane force winds anywhere along Irene’s path at or near landfall … no joy. I knew exaggeration was the order of the day for some folks in the climate debate, but I hadn’t realized that the illness had infected the Weather Service itself.
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irene-at-landfall-wind-pressure.jpg


irene-at-landfall-winds-hatteras-beaufort.jpg

irene-at-ny-winds-pressure.jpg
 
Not sure why you're so upset with this. It was a hurricane as it swept past the Carolinas, but yest by the time it got here in New England it was a tropical storm, but as you can see the devistation is just the same. It downgraded as it went over more land than originally forecasted.
 
dfuze said:
Not sure why you're so upset with this. It was a hurricane as it swept past the Carolinas, but yest by the time it got here in New England it was a tropical storm, but as you can see the devistation is just the same. It downgraded as it went over more land than originally forecasted.
Click to expand...

That bolded part is a common bit of misinformation, which should be debunked if weather stations are to be believed.
 
If it made it to 75mph, it gets classified as a Hurricane. Even if it is later downgraded; it still retains the honor of making it that far.
Just like a politician or judge; even when retired; you still retain the title.
 
They go off more than just wind speed. At the time it landed in NC it had a pressure of 952mb, which is usually the kind of pressure you would see in a decent Cat. 3. The wind might have been just below Hurricane threshold on land, but at sea, where most of the hurricane was, the winds were much faster. It is officially listed as a tropical storm when it made landfall in Jersey. (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/2011atlan.shtml) click on Irene and then you can click on any of the little hurricane markers and find all sorts of useful info.
 
TheClaw said:
They go off more than just wind speed. At the time it landed in NC it had a pressure of 952mb, which is usually the kind of pressure you would see in a decent Cat. 3. The wind might have been just below Hurricane threshold on land, but at sea, where most of the hurricane was, the winds were much faster. It is officially listed as a tropical storm when it made landfall in Jersey. (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/2011atlan.shtml) click on Irene and then you can click on any of the little hurricane markers and find all sorts of useful info.
Click to expand...

Can you explain the significance of the pressure? Is this what causes the storm surge, lifting the water higher due to low pressure?

And no matter what it's called, it was a significant storm and caused massive flooding and power outages.
 
EagleKeeper said:
If it made it to 75mph, it gets classified as a Hurricane. Even if it is later downgraded; it still retains the honor of making it that far.
Just like a politician or judge; even when retired; you still retain the title.
Click to expand...

I do not think that is how it works, or at least the mere title is not the mistake I am referring to.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2011/graphics/al09/loop_5W.shtml

They called it a Hurricane with Hurricane force winds the NEXT DAY after landfall in NC, where it did not have Hurricane force winds. By the time of the following advisory- it barely maintained tropic storm force winds.

AL092011_5W_032_A.GIF


Follow through with the next advisory and you'll clearly see they downgrade it to a tropical storm, and then later a tropical depression. It does not retain the status of Hurricane, which is related to current maximum sustained winds.

Long story short, it was no Hurricane in North Carolina yet it was reported as such and even AFTERWARDS advisories were issued as such. The official record does not match official data.
 
spidey07 said:
And no matter what it's called, it was a significant storm and caused massive flooding and power outages.
Click to expand...

I've no intention of downplaying the significant impact and harm this storm caused. This merely an attempt to inform you of the disparity in the data and what was reported and written into the official record.

It was classified stronger than what it was.
 
spidey07 said:
Can you explain the significance of the pressure? Is this what causes the storm surge, lifting the water higher due to low pressure?

And no matter what it's called, it was a significant storm and caused massive flooding and power outages.
Click to expand...

Essentially the pressure gradient is what drives the winds. The lower the pressure in the center of a hurricane, the faster the winds will spin around it. And stronger winds can push more water into land, so a worse storm surge.

I agree, it was a terrible storm, and I'm sure if you ask people who were directly affected by it they would say it was a hurricane, even if it isn't officially.
 
Jaskalas said:
I do not think that is how it works, or at least the mere title is not the mistake I am referring to.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/archive/2011/graphics/al09/loop_5W.shtml

They called it a Hurricane with Hurricane force winds the NEXT DAY after landfall in NC, where it did not have Hurricane force winds. By the time of the following advisory- it barely maintained tropic storm force winds.

AL092011_5W_032_A.GIF


Follow through with the next advisory and you'll clearly see they downgrade it to a tropical storm, and then later a tropical depression. It does not retain the status of Hurricane, which is related to current maximum sustained winds.

Long story short, it was no Hurricane in North Carolina yet it was reported as such and even AFTERWARDS advisories were issued as such. The official record does not match official data.
Click to expand...

It still had hurricane force winds over NC. So it was a hurricane when it made landfall there... Hurricanes need warm ocean water to survive. Land kills them, so it makes perfect sense for it to weaken as it goes over land.

Katrina wasn't a hurricane when it reached Tennessee, so does that mean it wasn't a hurricane when it made landfall in Gulfport MS?


Me thinks you might be trollin'.
 
Jaskalas said:
The story of Irene's hype is an incredible tale of mass lying.

The Nation Hurricane Center (NHC), and media, kept calling Irene a Hurricane almost a full day after landfall even though it fell apart before landfall.

I don't particularly blame the media, for they all rely on the same source - and the source got it wrong. The only way we know they were wrong is through emperical evidence. Thanks to the landfall location we have a record of weather stations at our disposal. Perhaps the NHC does not take weather stations into account when declaring the strength of storms. I can only assume they do not, for if they did, why ignore the data?

In lue of this mistake comes an interesting twist. The last Hurricane to make landfall on the United States was Ike back in 2008. It has, as of today, been 1,083 days. The longest period without a Hurricane landfall since before the Civil War.



Without Irene being a Hurricane, this record setting dry spell continues. It may end later this season, but it did not end last week. Will the NHC correct the record and admit their mistake?

Tropical Storm Irene



irene-at-landfall-wind-pressure.jpg


irene-at-landfall-winds-hatteras-beaufort.jpg

irene-at-ny-winds-pressure.jpg
Click to expand...

Not enough damage and loss of life for you . Or what exactly is your problem. Your a tuff guy to pull a tear out of . I will work harder at it . Just to please YOU.
 
JSt0rm said:
people died
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Most people died due to sheer stupidity...a girlfriend in New Jersey has to rush out to see her boyfriend; two retarded campers have a tree fall on them; driving in the storm/hurricane when there were all kinds of warnings to not do something this stupid...Darwinism at work.

Hell, one moron opened up a sewer lid and got sucked down...wtf did he think would happen?

And now the media is trying to get us all riled up again with Katia. They won't even have a good track on it until late Labor Day Weekend but who cares...it is sensationalism and draws the morons to the TV.
 
TheClaw said:
It still had hurricane force winds over NC. So it was a hurricane when it made landfall there... Hurricanes need warm ocean water to survive. Land kills them, so it makes perfect sense for it to weaken as it goes over land.

Katrina wasn't a hurricane when it reached Tennessee, so does that mean it wasn't a hurricane when it made landfall in Gulfport MS?


Me thinks you might be trollin'.
Click to expand...

What do you think you're defending?

In your example, it'd be if Gulfport MS did not experience hurricane force winds, as North Carolina did not. Irene was no Katrina, it wasn't even a hurricane in North Carolina and was only barely a tropical storm in New York, wind speeds provided in the OP.
 
JockoJohnson said:
Most people died due to sheer stupidity...a girlfriend in New Jersey has to rush out to see her boyfriend; two retarded campers have a tree fall on them; driving in the storm/hurricane when there were all kinds of warnings to not do something this stupid...Darwinism at work.

Hell, one moron opened up a sewer lid and got sucked down...wtf did he think would happen?

And now the media is trying to get us all riled up again with Katia. They won't even have a good track on it until late Labor Day Weekend but who cares...it is sensationalism and draws the morons to the TV.
Click to expand...

You stepped over the line . Ask and you shall recieve.
 
Jaskalas said:
The story of Irene's hype is an incredible tale of mass lying.

The Nation Hurricane Center (NHC), and media, kept calling Irene a Hurricane almost a full day after landfall even though it fell apart before landfall.
Click to expand...

Great! I'm glad to hear all the damage was 100% hype and didn't actually happen.
 
Jaskalas said:
What do you think you're defending?

In your example, it'd be if Gulfport MS did not experience hurricane force winds, as North Carolina did not. Irene was no Katrina, it wasn't even a hurricane in North Carolina and was only barely a tropical storm in New York, wind speeds provided in the OP.
Click to expand...

You provided some graphs from some dudes blog. Not official information from the NWS. I can make a graph that says it had 500 MPH winds. Official reports, and reports from some buddies of mine who were at Kill Devils Hill, are winds above hurricane strength(~80). That would make it a Cat. 1, which is what it is officially listed as. The strongest winds were on the eastern side of the storm since that was mainly small barrier islands, so not much friction to slow the winds down.
 
I still don't have power or water at home, and didn't have it at work Sunday or Monday. A couple of streets are still flooded and closed, including my usual route off the highway. The town where my wife's business is in is still 100% without power.

We were extremely lucky. If the winds were 10 mph higher or we got another inch of rain we would have had widescale destruction.

It may have only been a tropical storm when it reached here in CT, but it seems like every single tree it knocked over landed on a powerline.
 
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