Irate AnandTech readers turn on reviewer

Macro2

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May 20, 2000
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Irate AnandTech readers turn on reviewer

Absurd
Here

By Mario Rodrigues: Monday 09 August 2004, 22:46

AN ANANDTECH review titled: "Linux and EM64T; Intel's 64-bit Suggestion" hasn?t been very well received by AnandTech readers who have commented on the article. To say that they are unhappy would be an understatement. Here are some of their curt observations:
"What the hell made you run a 3.6 ghz Nocona vs the 3500+?!? Try running it against an Opteron 150! For crying out loud . ."

"this was probably the worst comparison ever. At least give us some game benchmarks like UT2004 64bit and let us see some real numbers"

"Sorry Kristopher, but this was a BAD article. There's not nearly enough information to draw any useful conclusions."

"Is it just me or is a Server/Workstation CPU v. Desktop CPU comparision anything but apples to apples? Perhapse apples to pears at best? Could please re-run every test with the correct hardware?"

"Even a intel fanyboy has to laugh at how off sided this failure of a "review" was."

"Come on anandtech, if we wanted to read stuff like this we go to tom's"

"ANANDTECH in our next review, we'd like to show your how an AthlonFX53 compares to a 2.8Ghz Celeron"

........."as you can see, the Celeron just cannot keep up with the AMD monster, looks like intel is really going to have to pick up the pace or AMD could rule the frickin' world with this new behemoth"

That was just a sample of the 70 plus and growing comments that have been registered. The author did try to defend his position by saying:

"The only reason we even put the 3500+ in there is cause we already had benchmarks for it."

"Relax, its just a primer for future articles. A 3.6F is supposed to compare with a "3600+" rated Athlon 64 isnt it? Since we dont have a 3600+ the 3500+ should perform slightly lower? Isnt this what we expected? And for those of you who dont believe me, a 3.6GHz 1MB EM64T Nocona is *exactly* like a 3.6F."

"I thought the AMD chip did pretty damn good for costing $500 less!"

Just a primer? Look at the concluding section?s second paragraph:

"Without a doubt, the 3.6GHz Xeon trounces over the Athlon 64 in math-intensive benchmarks. Intel came ahead in every severe benchmark that we could throw at it, particularly during John the Ripper. Even though John uses several different optimizations to generate hashes, in every case, the Athlon chip found itself at least 40% behind. Much of this is likely attributed to the additional math tweaking in the Prescott family core."

If the author had said that the "fastest 3.6GHz Xeon trounced the slowest socket 939 Athlon 64 in math-intensive benchmarks at $500 more in cost", that would have put the paragraph in context. But as it currently stands, someone at Intel Corp. will no doubt use the AnandTech quote for the chip giant?s next round of Xeon promotional material. Intel will be happy, if it understands "happy". µ

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17754
 

txxxx

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Feb 13, 2003
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Its not the platform that pisses me off most, its the lack of setup accuracy. I've already posted about this in off-topics. Anandtech has been going downhill for a while in terms of article quality.
 

daveshel

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Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: txxxx
Its not the platform that pisses me off most, its the lack of setup accuracy. I've already posted about this in off-topics. Anandtech has been going downhill for a while in terms of article quality.

Bingo. The employees just never lived up to the standard set by Anand. Not that I blame him - he managed to turn an adolescent hobby into a real business. But the best articles were about the time he graduated from high school.
 

txxxx

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Originally posted by: daveshel
Originally posted by: txxxx
Its not the platform that pisses me off most, its the lack of setup accuracy. I've already posted about this in off-topics. Anandtech has been going downhill for a while in terms of article quality.

Bingo. The employees just never lived up to the standard set by Anand. Not that I blame him - he managed to turn an adolescent hobby into a real business. But the best articles were about the time he graduated from high school.

Edit: Take the absolutely misleading article down before it damages Anandtech's reputation for good !
 

Macro2

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Edit: Take the absolutely misleading article down before it damages Anandtech's reputation for good !
-------------------------------------
 

Dman877

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Jan 15, 2004
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A 3.6 GHZ $800+ cpu is supposed to compete with a 3600/3500+ $350 - 450(?) cpu? Would this be in a fantasy land where money grows on trees? Even if the 3.6F is priced lower, it will be a long time before it costs anywhere near a 3500+...

EDIT: Please don't fall for PR/model number BS. Price is the only real comparison metric left in the cpu world.
 

Macro2

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---------------------------------------
Our Nocona server was setup in a remote location with little access, so we had limited time to run as many real world benchmarks as we are typically accustomed to.
----------------------------------------

Just where was that server located? Santa Clara?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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IMO the worst part was not so much the difference in Processors, though I'd agree that it's nearly impossible to trust the results as an indicator, to me it was the use of a completely new set of Synthetic Benchmarks that I have never heard of before. That's not to say that the used Benchmarks are bogus, as they may actually be well respected and proven to be very indicative of actual performance, but they have no meaning or context for me(and I assume others). As such I dunno what kind of things affect their Score or even if the Score is indicative of any kind of Real World use.

I dunno what they were thinking though. They should have known that by not making a direct comparison with the actual processo meant to compete(Opteron 150) with this Xeon Processor in question was going to leave people scratching their heads. The review is useless as is.
 

Macro2

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May 20, 2000
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RE:"to me it was the use of a completely new set of Synthetic Benchmarks that I have never heard of before"

It's like the bible.."beware of those who come bearing new benchmarks"...

Especially when you look who's behind them...
 

coldpower27

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Jul 18, 2004
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Actually after August 22nd or so, the Intel Pentium 4 F 3.6GHZ will be priced in 417US for 1000's unit quantities, becuase of Intels price drop and pricing policy on EMT64... so it won't be that far off. This won't be too far from AMD's 350US or so for the Athlon 64 3500+....
 

OMGoddess

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Jun 25, 2004
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Originally posted by: coldpower27
Actually after August 22nd or so, the Intel Pentium 4 F 3.6GHZ will be priced in 417US for 1000's unit quantities, becuase of Intels price drop and pricing policy on EMT64... so it won't be that far off. This won't be too far from AMD's 350US or so for the Athlon 64 3500+....

Umm...that's for resellers, not cosumer price, You'll still be paying $700-$800. Unless you have ties with Intel as a reseller, and can afford to buy 1000 of them at a time.
 

Macro2

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Gleened from another BB...

"Anand Nocona review has been partially corrected.
Athlon 3500+ has a substantial lead in TSCP now."


"The only remaining benchmark where Athlon loses out is now the "John the Ripper" test, which Anand uses to conclude the Intel chip is much faster on arithmetic. I took a quick look at the source code, and the key code paths are hand-crafted in assembler, selected based on compiler flags and CPU detection. The CPU detection code is as follows.
.globl CPU_detect
CPU_detect:
pushfl
pushfl
xorl EF_ID,(%esp)
popfl
pushfl
popl %eax
xorl (%esp),%eax
popfl
andl EF_ID,%eax
jz CPU_detect_ret
movl $1,%eax
pushl %ebx
#if DES_X2
cpuid
popl %ebx
xchgl %edx,%eax
andl CF_MMX,%eax
#else
.byte 0x0F
.byte 0xA2
popl %ebx
andb $0x0F,%ah
cmpb $5,%ah
jne CPU_detect_ret
xorl %eax,%eax
pushl %ebx
.byte 0x0F
.byte 0xA2
popl %ebx
cmpl CV_INTEL,%ecx

jne CPU_detect_ret
movl $DES_std_crypt_P5,%eax
movl %eax,DES_std_crypt
#endif
CPU_detect_ret:
ret

The CV_INTEL constant is defined as
#define CV_INTEL $0x6C65746E
which is "ntel".

Looks to me like this is yet another example of people using benchmarks with dud Intel detection. Pathetic.


from the article:Update: We have addressed the issue with the -02 compile options in TSCP, the miscopy from previous benchmarks of the MySQL benchmark, and various other issues here and there in the testing of this processor. Expect a follow up article as soon as possible with an Opteron.
 

jose

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Oct 11, 1999
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" bench an FX-53 against a 2Ghz celeron"

I second that !

Regards,
Jose
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
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I just read the review...and what are they thinking? Now I'm going to think twice before I accept any Anandtech article as truth: whether it be favoring AMD or Intel.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
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Aug 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: magomago
I just read the review...and what are they thinking? Now I'm going to think twice before I accept any Anandtech article as truth: whether it be favoring AMD or Intel.
Anand is da man, if he writes it up I won't even blink :) If KK does it, I'll want to know if he had adult supervision and passed a drug screening :p J/K
 

Macro2

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May 20, 2000
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Someone said Anand is getting married? He simply put it in the hands of KK.

There is an outraged thread on aces exposing the whole thing. Particularly "Jack the ripper".

here
 

coldpower27

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Jul 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: OMGoddess
Originally posted by: coldpower27
Actually after August 22nd or so, the Intel Pentium 4 F 3.6GHZ will be priced in 417US for 1000's unit quantities, becuase of Intels price drop and pricing policy on EMT64... so it won't be that far off. This won't be too far from AMD's 350US or so for the Athlon 64 3500+....

Umm...that's for resellers, not cosumer price, You'll still be paying $700-$800. Unless you have ties with Intel as a reseller, and can afford to buy 1000 of them at a time.

There is no way in hell your gonna get a 300-400 dollar disreprency like that.

Current pricing for Intel processor are as follows:

Pentium 4 3.6GHZ 637US Northwood S478/Prescott S478/Prescott LGA775
Pentium 4 3.4GHZ 417US Northwood S478/Prescott S478/Prescott LGA775
Pentium 4 3.2GHZ 278US Northwood S478/Prescott S478/Prescott LGA775
Pentium 4 3.0GHZ 218US Northwood S478/Prescott S478/Prescott LGA775

And the new EMT64 Desktop versions, will be release with price parity, with the current desktop processor meaning they won't be any more expensive/chepaer then current ones of the same GHZ level. Just like how Prescott is around the same price as comprable Northwood's are. Also given the fact there isn't any difference worth mentioning, for performance related issues, that I can see when comparing the Nocona 3.6GHZ w/1MB Cache FSB800 and the Pentium 4 3.6F w/1MB Cache and FSB800. it actually should be faster then Nocona, because it has accesss to low latency unregistered DDR400.

Also I did factor in the August 22nd Price drop one 1 tier for each processor making the Pentium 4 3.6GHZ F 417US in 1000 Unit Quantities very soon.

Now here is a list of Newegg prices.

Pentium 4 3.6GHZ Newegg doesn't list these.
Pentium 4 3.4GHZ 416/???/422 compared to Intel reference 417US for 1000 Unit Quantities
Pentium 4 3.2GHZ ???/275/288 compared to Intel reference 278US for 1000 Unit Quantities
Pentium 4 3.0GHZ 223/215/228 compared to Intel reference 218US for 1000 unit Quantities

SO I don't know where you can get your gonna be paying 700-800US for a soon to be 417US processor :S
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
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I voiced my opinion in the comments as well. It was just a bad comparison all around. I understand though that he had benchmarks for the 3500 but if thats all he had he should have waited to bench something more in line with the Intel chip. But I don't think this changes the credibility of the site though. And as for quality, I think Anandtech's reviews have for more the most part always been top notched. No site is perfect and no matter what the outcome of the review some folks are not going to happy. I think next time though they should be a little more careful on choosing the right combatants. :)