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Iraqis Brave Bombs to Vote in Their Millions
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CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Asking questions and posting truth is "interesting" to you? Maybe next time I should ASSUME people's intent like conjur did and let their dis-info propagate... :roll:
CsG
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Why John, whatever are you talking about?
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
No, you made assertions. Here, let me quote it for you:
We won't see any dramatic change for years? decades? Can you tell me the powerball numbers for Wednesday please? :roll: No one said there was a guarantee - there is never a guarantee when the people actually get to vote.
Now back to these "interesting" parallels you and bob claim are so obvious. Please do post them - heck I might even agree if you would find one that doesn't need a person to blindly accept the premise that Iraq = Vietnam.
CsG
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I was talking to bob when you claimed my reply was an "interesting tactic". Which question was the "interesting tactic"? Or was it my link to what Annan said that was an "interesting tactic"?
CsG
If history is any lesson the best solution to terror and insugerncy are free elections.
Perhaps the best comparison would be Algeria during their time of tumult. There was a very Iraq like insugency, a colonial power trying to maintain the peace, and a push for freedom. It has been said in more advanced military journals that from the looks of it, the Iraqi insugents are modelling their attacks on the Algerian uprising. If not purposefully, accidentally - the situations are almost identical.
Whatever the case. What solved the prolblems in Algeria. A free election. Within months, attacks were near zero. The point that prior to the elections the insurgents actually believed that they had a lot of popular support spurred them on. After the election, and the realization that they had little (or no) real support many of the fringe elements simply disbanded. The whole cause was a loss.
The same message was sent in Iraq this weekend. The insugents who thought that the message was working, or thought that the people hated America, or freedom, were wrong. Their base of support will quickly errode. Not to mention Zarquawi's hold onto his men. The people of Iraq may also be more motivated to report criminal activity with less fear.
Perhaps the best comparison would be Algeria during their time of tumult. There was a very Iraq like insugency, a colonial power trying to maintain the peace, and a push for freedom. It has been said in more advanced military journals that from the looks of it, the Iraqi insugents are modelling their attacks on the Algerian uprising. If not purposefully, accidentally - the situations are almost identical.
Whatever the case. What solved the prolblems in Algeria. A free election. Within months, attacks were near zero. The point that prior to the elections the insurgents actually believed that they had a lot of popular support spurred them on. After the election, and the realization that they had little (or no) real support many of the fringe elements simply disbanded. The whole cause was a loss.
The same message was sent in Iraq this weekend. The insugents who thought that the message was working, or thought that the people hated America, or freedom, were wrong. Their base of support will quickly errode. Not to mention Zarquawi's hold onto his men. The people of Iraq may also be more motivated to report criminal activity with less fear.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Nevermind Barbara.
You're missing the big picture, as usual. It's an interventionist, imperialistic foreign policy that has parallels to prior interventions (Vietnam, Central America, etc.) There are MANY parallels between now and the late 60s/early 70s in terms of gov't policy and public opinion.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I'm not missing anything(you are ASSuming again😉 ) - except your examples of the parallels. You can continue to say they are there but until you state them, I'm not going to blindly accept them because you claim they are there. So why don't you re-read your "interesting" article and then post the "why" I originally asked for. If the parallels are the "interesting" part - then please state them.
OK, now - begin...
CsG
Jesus Christ, CAD, your sorry ass is so dense. Still waiting on that apology, too.
1) United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting.
2) A successful election has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam.
3) The purpose of the voting was to give legitimacy to the Saigon Government, which has been founded only on coups and power plays since November, 1963, when President Ngo Dinh Deim was overthrown by a military junta.
4) The hope here is that the new government will be able to maneuver with a confidence and legitimacy long lacking in South Vietnamese politics.
1) United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting.
2) A successful election has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam.
3) The purpose of the voting was to give legitimacy to the Saigon Government, which has been founded only on coups and power plays since November, 1963, when President Ngo Dinh Deim was overthrown by a military junta.
4) The hope here is that the new government will be able to maneuver with a confidence and legitimacy long lacking in South Vietnamese politics.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
:roll: - Just because I asked for YOUR parrallels doesn't mean I'm making the claim there are NONE. Heck if you'd take off your blinders for a second you'd see I am willing to accept some parrallels - just not those that are already based on the premise that Iraq=vietnam like you and bob were trying to use and project.
1) great! We can be surprised and heartened by a better than expected turn-out, correct? I mean one doesn't have to be an optomist to be happy at unexpected good news - do they?
2) And? Is that not a logical step? Letting the people decide? Is there a problem with this policy?
3) And? Does letting the people decide somehow not make it legitimate? How else would it become "legitimate"?
4) Yes, true - having an elected gov't that can stand on it's own is paramount to us leaving Iraq. This hope is not a parrallel with Vietnam.
Now assuming these 3 parrallels are well founded - what is the interpretation one might take from them?
CsG
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
You have still not answered the questions. Be a man and answer - not a d*ck.
CsG
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Good. Let's go home.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I think you mis-understand. You didn't answer the questions from over a week ago😉 There is no need to apologize for you getting your panties in a bunch and not answering the questions or clarifying the issue.
Now back to the topic instead of your "duhversions".
CsG
Hmm...has it?
Jazeera Tape Appears to Show UK Plane Hit in Iraq
http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne...31/ts_nm/iraq_plane_dc
So much for Allawi's credibility.
So? there will be more terrorist attacks, but terrorists in Iraq have been dealt a major blow. We can't prevent every single terrorist threat. Allawi is a brave man who is risking his life for his beloved country and we should respect that. Zarqawi and other al-qaeda thugs in Iraq, along with other terrorist groups have decided to declare war on democracy. Well the Iraqi's certainly showed them that terrorism has not worked and will never work in preventing people to express their freedom.
<ahem>
Main Entry: 1de·feat
Pronunciation: di-'fEt, dE-
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English deffeten, from Middle French deffait, past participle of deffaire to destroy, from Old French desfaire, from Medieval Latin disfacere, from Latin dis- + facere to do -- more at DO
1 obsolete : DESTROY
2 a : NULLIFY <defeat an estate> b : FRUSTRATE 2a(1) <defeat a hope>
3 : to win victory over : BEAT <defeat the opposing team>
Now, are you going to keep apologizing or admit Allawi is a puppet?
BTW, to your advantage, this wasn't terrorism.
Darkhawk28
Diamond Member
Allawi is Saddam-lite and was a stooge for Hussein in the 70's and probably even before. He murdered indiscriminately for Saddam and to some degree, he's doing it again.
Iraqi's won, terrorists lost. Thats it. Allawai said terrorism was defeated in the sense that the Iraqis turned out in strong numbers even as the terrorists were threatening to murder them. That shows how much these Iraqis want freedom after living for generations under supression. Use some logic please.
Of course he does not mean terrorism has been totally defeated, but the message of terrorists these days is to stop democracy from spreading. They have somewhat shifted from saying "America the satan" to "democracy is evil". This is Iraq's first step towards a democrat govt, we will see how future elections turn out. But just be glad the Iraqi's are saying to the terrorists: You lost, we won.
TastesLikeChicken
Lifer
I lve it when conjur posts definitions. He usually ends up biting himself in the ass by doing so and has done so once again. Look at 2b in his definition.
Any hope the terrorists had for their delusion (and not only THEIR delusion) of having popular support was defeated. It was worse than defeat, actually. It was thrashed, gored, trampled, shredded, and thoroughly dismembered. The Iraqis have spoken about who and what they support and it's readily apparent that it's not the terrorists.
Of course, that fact still won't prevent the terrorist apologists in here from attempting to claim otherwise.
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