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Iraqi Troops Moving Toward Kuwait

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Originally posted by: lowtech
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
What has you been reading?
Most of the EU & EU to be governments are falling in line behind Bush, because they are trigging along for the promise aid that American has promises to them. Even Blair the US strongest "Lackey" is getting flack from his people & political party.
Click to expand...
So how exactly does that translate into something that will take years to mend?
Click to expand...

Trade & politics.

Because of the unwillingness of the EU to fall in line behind the US. Even Turkey turned down billions of dollars deal because their people doesn't want to become the US "Lackey".

It is the will of the people that drive a country not some dictatorship government.
Click to expand...

Well since more than half of the EU nations have publicly expressed support for the US/UK position I still don't see some rift that will take years to mend. Individual countries, maybe, the entire EU, not likely. They can't afford a falling out with the US. As to your "will of the people" statement I will be nice and simply say that you are both idealistic and naive.

 
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
Originally posted by: lowtech
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
What has you been reading?
Most of the EU & EU to be governments are falling in line behind Bush, because they are trigging along for the promise aid that American has promises to them. Even Blair the US strongest "Lackey" is getting flack from his people & political party.
Click to expand...
So how exactly does that translate into something that will take years to mend?
Click to expand...

Trade & politics.

Because of the unwillingness of the EU to fall in line behind the US. Even Turkey turned down billions of dollars deal because their people doesn't want to become the US "Lackey".

It is the will of the people that drive a country not some dictatorship government.
Click to expand...

Well since more than half of the EU nations have publicly expressed support for the US/UK position I still don't see some rift that will take years to mend. Individual countries, maybe, the entire EU, not likely. They can't afford a falling out with the US. As to your "will of the people" statement I will be nice and simply say that you are both idealistic and naive.
Click to expand...


Sorry,

But I see

French-German-Russian Alliance that could split the whole founding of the EU and NATO

Are we still pulling ALL of our troops out of Germany and closing the military bases?
 
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
Originally posted by: lowtech
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
What has you been reading?
Most of the EU & EU to be governments are falling in line behind Bush, because they are trigging along for the promise aid that American has promises to them. Even Blair the US strongest "Lackey" is getting flack from his people & political party.
Click to expand...
So how exactly does that translate into something that will take years to mend?
Click to expand...

Trade & politics.

Because of the unwillingness of the EU to fall in line behind the US. Even Turkey turned down billions of dollars deal because their people doesn't want to become the US "Lackey".

It is the will of the people that drive a country not some dictatorship government.
Click to expand...

Well since more than half of the EU nations have publicly expressed support for the US/UK position I still don't see some rift that will take years to mend. Individual countries, maybe, the entire EU, not likely. They can't afford a falling out with the US. As to your "will of the people" statement I will be nice and simply say that you are both idealistic and naive.
Click to expand...


Sorry,

But I see

French-German-Russian Alliance that could split the whole founding of the EU and NATO

Are we still pulling ALL of our troops out of Germany and closing the military bases?
Click to expand...


French diplomacy is broken. It may never mend.
German Diplomacy - I dont know, they seem to be following france right now.
Russia - some ground lost, but I doubt much.

Germany stands to lose some bases as they seem to be ready to get rid of a US presence there. Poland would also be cheaper for us as well.
 
Blowing up the oil wells would create an ecological disaster that would endanger the people of Iraq.

If you weren't trying to troll so much you would realize simple facts like that.
 
They will do what they can to stop any wells from being blown up, if only for the environmental damage their troops might suffer and the extra trouble this would cause on the battlefield. If Saddam moving ILLEGAL missiles capable of delivering chemical and bio weapons towards Israel isnt enough to convinvce you he needs to be removed then you are beyond naive. I agree he has every right to do what he can to defend his country, he understands whats coming soon. But Israel has taken no acts of agression towards him in any way, even when he bombed them during Desert Storm.


I believe Israel again would NOT retaliate at our request, they understand Saddam's motive and don't want ten more PLO's to deal with. Saddam understands if he uses WMD it does not matter who he targets, the results will be the same. We will deliver the same blow, probably worse, than Israel FOR THEM should they be the target of WMD. Hayabusrider your right to your opinion is obvious, but your arguements are poorly thought out and in direct conflict with the FACTS in this case. This is why there is a large coalition of countries supporting our goverment's position and few supporting your personal opinion. France stands to gain financially more so than any other country if Saddam is allowed to remain in power, do you lack the intelligence to see the conflict of interest there? Perhaps you feel it is fine that 27 million Iraq citizens are oppressed so France can make more money, that's some mighty "high moral ground". Clearly Saddam is not moving these weapons in an effort to comply with the inspectors, do you think he is just now taking everything out of hiding and turning it over? No, he has moved these weapons in place for BATTLE.


So there is your evidence he still has them, the evidence he never complied nor planned on complying no matter how many YEARS we give him, and the evidence he is still AGRESSIVE in the region. The buildups by Kuwait can be called defensive (if you disregard every resolution he violated to keep those weapons), but the missiles placed towards Israel are clearly an act of aggression towards a country not even involved in the whole conflict. I can't wait until we get rolling, this will be swift and we can finally stop hearing all the WHINING from the uninformed and naive.....


Edited for those with poor reading ability............
 
Originally posted by: Alistar7
They will do what they can to stop any wells from being blown up, if only for the environmental damage their troops might suffer and the extra trouble this would cause on the battlefield. If Saddam moving ILLEGAL missiles capable of delivering chemical and bio weapons towards Israel isnt enough to convinvce you he needs to be removed then you are beyond naive. I agree he has every right to do what he can to defend his country, he understands whats coming soon. But Israel has taken no acts of agression towards him in any way, even when he bombed them during Desert Storm. I believe Israel again would NOT retaliate at our request, they understand Saddam's motive and don't want ten more PLO's to deal with. Saddam understands if he uses WMD it does not matter who he targets, the results will be the same. We will deliver the same blow, probably worse, than Israel FOR THEM should they be the target of WMD. Hayabusrider your right to your opinion is obvious, but your arguements are poorly thought out and in direct conflict with the FACTS in this case. This is why there is a large coalition of countries supporting our goverment's position and few supporting your personal opinion. France stands to gain financially more so than any other country if Saddam is allowed to remain in power, do you lack the intelligence to see the conflict of interest there? Perhaps you feel it is fine that 27 million Iraq citizens are oppressed so France can make more money, that's some mighty "high moral ground". Clearly Saddam is not moving these weapons in an effort to comply with the inspectors, do you think he is just now taking everything out of hiding and turning it over? No, he has moved these weapons in place for BATTLE. So there is your evidence he still has them, the evidence he never complied nor planned on complying no matter how many YEARS we give him, and the evidence he is still AGRESSIVE in the region. The buildups by Kuwait can be called defensive (if you disregard every resolution he violated to keep those weapons), but the missiles placed towards Israel are clearly an act of aggression towards a country not even involved in the whole conflict. I can't wait until we get rolling, this will be swift and we can finally stop hearing all the WHINING from the uninformed and naive.....
Click to expand...

Could you like make that into paragraph form so people can read it? 😀
 
I'm sorry you can't read. I've noticed your responses to others clearly laid out posts, you attack them somehow, usually their intelligence, apparently your best response is to complain about the format???? LOL I didn't think you could come up with a legitimate reason to support your position.
 
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Could you like make that into paragraph form so people can read it? 😀
Click to expand...


Can you like? Can you make a simple sentence with proper structure "that people can read"? If there was ever a clear sign the public school system is failing.....
 
come on, blair knows what he's doing.

If things go even remotely to plan and the iraqi's are crushed, his public opinion will skyrocket... People love a winner. Bush too will be easily elected again if all these people are right and the markets pick back up when the major uncertainty fades. The lack of another big eared man stealing 20 million votes from him will help too...

jt
 
Originally posted by: jteef
come on, blair knows what he's doing.

If things go even remotely to plan and the iraqi's are crushed, his public opinion will skyrocket... People love a winner. Bush too will be easily elected again if all these people are right and the markets pick back up when the major uncertainty fades. The lack of another big eared man stealing 20 million votes from him will help too...

jt
Click to expand...

All this at the cost of other peoples lives, it's easier to say when your not the one getting gunned down.
 
Originally posted by: etech
Blowing up the oil wells would create an ecological disaster that would endanger the people of Iraq.

If you weren't trying to troll so much you would realize simple facts like that.
Click to expand...

Yeah....right.

 
gurantee Saddam has killed more of his own people than we will in libertaing them, at least I can gurantee we won't launch chemical weapons on the citizens of Iraq like he has.
 
Wow. Just Wow. I can't believe some of you are wasting your time responding to hagbard. He is not anti-war. He is anti-US. When has he ever offered an alternative solution to war? When has he ever cared about the Iraqi people or cared about stopping a madman? He simply will take any news he can and make it anti-US. In his eyes the opposite of what the US does is the truth. Stop wasting your time responding to his posts. It only fuels his condescending trolling. Flame him, but don't give him rational responses. He is not going to actually change his mind or listen.
 
Time to wake up. This war is being pushed for the benefit of Israel. The Iraqi's know this, as do most people on this planet.

 
I find his and Hayabusrider's lack of intelligence in defending their position so amusing though. You just have to forget the fact that in doing so they are also defending an opressive dictator who has committed genocide against his own people, attacked and invaded sovereign nations, harbored, funded, and trained terrorists, etc...
 
Originally posted by: Alistar7
They will do what they can to stop any wells from being blown up, if only for the environmental damage their troops might suffer and the extra trouble this would cause on the battlefield. If Saddam moving ILLEGAL missiles capable of delivering chemical and bio weapons towards Israel isnt enough to convinvce you he needs to be removed then you are beyond naive. I agree he has every right to do what he can to defend his country, he understands whats coming soon. But Israel has taken no acts of agression towards him in any way, even when he bombed them during Desert Storm.


I believe Israel again would NOT retaliate at our request, they understand Saddam's motive and don't want ten more PLO's to deal with. Saddam understands if he uses WMD it does not matter who he targets, the results will be the same. We will deliver the same blow, probably worse, than Israel FOR THEM should they be the target of WMD. Hayabusrider your right to your opinion is obvious, but your arguements are poorly thought out and in direct conflict with the FACTS in this case. This is why there is a large coalition of countries supporting our goverment's position and few supporting your personal opinion. France stands to gain financially more so than any other country if Saddam is allowed to remain in power, do you lack the intelligence to see the conflict of interest there? Perhaps you feel it is fine that 27 million Iraq citizens are oppressed so France can make more money, that's some mighty "high moral ground". Clearly Saddam is not moving these weapons in an effort to comply with the inspectors, do you think he is just now taking everything out of hiding and turning it over? No, he has moved these weapons in place for BATTLE.


So there is your evidence he still has them, the evidence he never complied nor planned on complying no matter how many YEARS we give him, and the evidence he is still AGRESSIVE in the region. The buildups by Kuwait can be called defensive (if you disregard every resolution he violated to keep those weapons), but the missiles placed towards Israel are clearly an act of aggression towards a country not even involved in the whole conflict. I can't wait until we get rolling, this will be swift and we can finally stop hearing all the WHINING from the uninformed and naive.....


Edited for those with poor reading ability............
Click to expand...


Time will tell. Without doubt, if this goes as badly as I forsee, you will blame it on the french or me or others who forsaw the difficulties with this war from the start. No matter.

Let me enlighten you on a few things. Saddam is quite capable of using whatever weapons he has if attacked. Notice the word attacked.

Perhaps you can explain why Saddam has not moved to attack Israel before?

Let me give you a little analogy. There is a bad man with a gun down the street. You and your neighbor argue back and forth over about whether he has it and if he is dangerous. He went loco a dozen years ago. You decide that after 12 years of not surrendering the gun, he poses a danger. You decide you are going to take it away from him. He sees you coming, and takes it out to defend himself. You and he get into a fight and he shoots someone. You state that he was dangerous and planning to use that gun all along. I point out the fact that until this point, he had not used it. I say it was your act of going after him that caused him to shoot
.
It is your act of irresponsibility that caused it. You may argue about what he might have done, but in fact YOU pushed him and are trying to blame everyone else.


Saddam would never never just launch against Israel, because it in no way furthered his agenda. If he is facing the end, then he has nothing to lose by trying to draw support from other countries.

You and yours forced his hand. Israel gets attacked, their blood is on your hands as much as Saddams. You. You wanted this, you craved it, and I hope you get a bellyfull if it happens.

 
Originally posted by: hagbard
Time to wake up. This war is being pushed for the benefit of Israel. The Iraqi's know this, as do most people on this planet.
Click to expand...

?????? UHM, can I have some of what you're smoking over there Hag? I'll bite though, what SPECIFICALLY does Israel stand to gain from this? If they stood to gain something don't you think they would fight as well? Why didn't they even retaliate in Desert Storm when directly attacked by Saddam?
 
Originally posted by: Alistar7
I find his and Hayabusrider's lack of intelligence in defending their position so amusing though. You just have to forget the fact that in doing so they are also defending an opressive dictator who has committed genocide against his own people, attacked and invaded sovereign nations, harbored, funded, and trained terrorists, etc...
Click to expand...

Sorry. I didn't include Hayabusrider in my comments. I have found him to be voice of logic and I respect his opinion(even if I don't agree with him). The same does not go for hagbard.
 
Originally posted by: hagbard
Time to wake up. This war is being pushed for the benefit of Israel. The Iraqi's know this, as do most people on this planet.
Click to expand...

Glad to see you put together another two sentence post. Bravo!
rolleye.gif
 
The following are wise words brought to you by Hayabusrider..

"Perhaps you can explain why Saddam has not moved to attack Israel before?

Let me give you a little analogy. There is a bad man with a gun down the street. You and your neighbor argue back and forth over about whether he has it and if he is dangerous. He went loco a dozen years ago. You decide that after 12 years of not surrendering the gun, he poses a danger. You decide you are going to take it away from him. He sees you coming, and takes it out to defend himself. You and he get into a fight and he shoots someone. You state that he was dangerous and planning to use that gun all along. I point out the fact that until this point, he had not used it. I say it was your act of going after him that caused him to shoot"



Saddam HAS ALREADY ATTACKED ISRAEL BEOFRE THOUGH, so your facts are wrong. Can't prove anything if you are using false information. Your "analogy" is equally weak. He has used this "gun" before, when he invaded kuwait (and bombed Israel), we DID do something about it the first time as well, not nothing as you state. There was hardly an arguement the first time either, we had the full support ofthe UN. We also never decided to let him keep this gun, the only reason we stopped was to give him time to get rid of this "gun" and we reserved the right to take it away should he not comply as he agreed. Do you even KNOW the history of events?


HAG did you find his analogy the height of logic as well? Almost everything he stated was in direct conflict with recorded history, lol.
 
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: Alistar7
I find his and Hayabusrider's lack of intelligence in defending their position so amusing though. You just have to forget the fact that in doing so they are also defending an opressive dictator who has committed genocide against his own people, attacked and invaded sovereign nations, harbored, funded, and trained terrorists, etc...
Click to expand...

Sorry. I didn't include Hayabusrider in my comments. I have found him to be voice of logic and I respect his opinion(even if I don't agree with him). The same does not go for hagbard.
Click to expand...

Can't answer my questions Hag? I'm suprised, really....... try again please

What SPECIFICALLY does Israel stand to gain from this? If they stood to gain something don't you think they would fight as well? Why didn't they even retaliate in Desert Storm when directly attacked by Saddam?

We all know France stands to gain more financially than anyone, so their hypocrisy is more than evident.
 
Well, I tried. You have invoked selective reading. Yes, he attacked Israel. Israel also attacked his reactors. BTW, when did he attack Israel? Notice in my analogy I said he went loco 12 years ago? He got bitch slapped then didnt he. Now how many countries has he attacked?


Please do a search and cut and paste here where I have said I support Saddam. When that fails, perhaps you can attempt to ascertain what my objections to war are. It is entirely possible that I am understating the danger that Saddam poses. I could be in error, but based on my observations I do not believe so. Obviously you cannot be in error, cannot have doubt. You are obviously superior. I concede defeat. Now go brag.
 
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