Iraqi Police infiltrated by terrorists

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Hard to believe they've been infiltrated. After all, it's so easy to spot dem dar tarists wearing those bright orange jumpsuits with the word TERRORIST in 70pt, san serif font stamped on the back.

If the Iraqi's can't even filter them out of their own army/police, then what chance do we have of success?? We going to kill them all to create a "democracy"?

How are they supposed to identify them all? Assuming that all terrorists can be filtered out is yet another unobtainable benchmark, much like assuming there should be 0 problems in rebuilding Iraq. Sure, terrorists in the police, .gov, and army is undesirable, but assuming they can all be fingered is unreasonable.

So now we have sleeper cells of terrorists in the Iraqi police, army, and even the goverment we're trying to set-up and there is nothing we can do about it. What does that mean in the long term?

It means that Iraq is going to have to deal with problems in their police, army, and government just like every other country in the world has to do for one reason or another.

That's why I think we're wasting our resources over there. Even if we achieve some kind of short term success, I don't believe it will last long.

You are fretting over a small minority. Despite the continuing focus on the terrorists by certain people and the media, as if that's all that Iraq is composed of, they don't have the numbers to do anything significant in the short- or long-term. They can keep blowing themselves up and taking civilians with them, but with 25+ million Iraqis they are going to run out of virgin seekers long before they run out of Iraqis.

They don't seem to be slowing down any to me. Who knows how many "virgin seekers" they can come up with?

Before the war Vietnamese Communist leader Ho Chi Minh said, "In this war you will kill 10 of us for every one of you we kill, but in the end it is you who will tire of it." As it turned out, the ratio was closer to 20 to 1, but let's give the devil his due. Like it or not, the Vietnamese Communists won not because of antiwar protesters, but because their soldiers were willing to do whatever they had to do to win.

http://www.glennsacks.com/horowitzs_letter_to.htm

To me, the straw that breaks the camels back is the fact that the Iraqi's don't seem to be to have the desire to fight for their freedom en masse. If they were to rise up and really go after these terrorists, then I might look at it differently, but instead the terrorists keep killing key people, seemingly at will.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

It means that Iraq is going to have to deal with problems in their police, army, and government just like every other country in the world has to do for one reason or another.

Except the problems they face now were created by the US and are problems that didn't exist to the magnitude before. Or, if they did, could you link us to some articles showing the daily car bombs and IED attacks?

Who said they weren't new problems?

Should we use the old Saddam methodolgy - accuse people, then march them outside and execute them on the spot?

The problems were created by the US either. The problem is caused by those perceiving a power vacuum and trying to fill that vacuum, or the fundy groups trying to impose their will on the majority of the population. Of course you have a severe dislike for fundies; well, apparently except for when they are Islamic fundies.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
How about before they run out of American troops?

Still stuck on stupid, eh Dan?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

It means that Iraq is going to have to deal with problems in their police, army, and government just like every other country in the world has to do for one reason or another.

Except the problems they face now were created by the US and are problems that didn't exist to the magnitude before. Or, if they did, could you link us to some articles showing the daily car bombs and IED attacks?

Who said they weren't new problems?

Should we use the old Saddam methodolgy - accuse people, then march them outside and execute them on the spot?

Oh, that's still being done. We're just not hearing it reported. But, if you go and look at the number of violent deaths in and around Baghdad, specifically, you see vigilante justice (or death squads) are still very much in action. The car bombs, IEDs, and mortars are some American-presence-inspired icing on that piece of FUBAR cake.

The problems were created by the US either. The problem is caused by those perceiving a power vacuum and trying to fill that vacuum, or the fundy groups trying to impose their will on the majority of the population. Of course you have a severe dislike for fundies; well, apparently except for when they are Islamic fundies.

And why is there a perceived power vacuum? Hmmm? If you'd look a bit further than the end of your nose you'd realize how ignorant your statement there is.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

It means that Iraq is going to have to deal with problems in their police, army, and government just like every other country in the world has to do for one reason or another.

Except the problems they face now were created by the US and are problems that didn't exist to the magnitude before. Or, if they did, could you link us to some articles showing the daily car bombs and IED attacks?

Who said they weren't new problems?

Should we use the old Saddam methodolgy - accuse people, then march them outside and execute them on the spot?

Oh, that's still being done. We're just not hearing it reported. But, if you go and look at the number of violent deaths in and around Baghdad, specifically, you see vigilante justice (or death squads) are still very much in action. The car bombs, IEDs, and mortars are some American-presence-inspired icing on that piece of FUBAR cake.

It's not being reported, but you know it's still being done?

Ummm, sure.

And how does what Saddam did relate in any way, shape, or form to vigilante justice?

The problems were created by the US either. The problem is caused by those perceiving a power vacuum and trying to fill that vacuum, or the fundy groups trying to impose their will on the majority of the population. Of course you have a severe dislike for fundies; well, apparently except for when they are Islamic fundies.

And why is there a perceived power vacuum? Hmmm? If you'd look a bit further than the end of your nose you'd realize how ignorant your statement there is.

It's not ignorance, it's reality, and part of it has to do with the reality of Arab culture. Of course, coming from you, a person who has his partisan blinders cinched so tightly he hasn't even seen the end of his nose in years, it's no surprise you'd miss that reality.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Who said they weren't new problems?

Should we use the old Saddam methodolgy - accuse people, then march them outside and execute them on the spot?

Oh, that's still being done. We're just not hearing it reported. But, if you go and look at the number of violent deaths in and around Baghdad, specifically, you see vigilante justice (or death squads) are still very much in action. The car bombs, IEDs, and mortars are some American-presence-inspired icing on that piece of FUBAR cake.

It's not being reported, but you know it's still being done?

Ummm, sure.

Ok, not reported widely by the MSM but it's out there.

And how does what Saddam did relate in any way, shape, or form to vigilante justice?

Same end result. People dead over differences in ideology.

The problems were created by the US either. The problem is caused by those perceiving a power vacuum and trying to fill that vacuum, or the fundy groups trying to impose their will on the majority of the population. Of course you have a severe dislike for fundies; well, apparently except for when they are Islamic fundies.

And why is there a perceived power vacuum? Hmmm? If you'd look a bit further than the end of your nose you'd realize how ignorant your statement there is.

It's not ignorance, it's reality, and part of it has to do with the reality of Arab culture. Of course, coming from you, a person who has his partisan blinders cinched so tightly he hasn't even seen the end of his nose in years, it's no surprise you'd miss that reality.

Me? Partisan? HA! And of what reality do you speak? You're delusional. Hell, you even avoided the question completely!

Here, I'll ask again:

And why is there a perceived power vacuum?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Who said they weren't new problems?

Should we use the old Saddam methodolgy - accuse people, then march them outside and execute them on the spot?

Oh, that's still being done. We're just not hearing it reported. But, if you go and look at the number of violent deaths in and around Baghdad, specifically, you see vigilante justice (or death squads) are still very much in action. The car bombs, IEDs, and mortars are some American-presence-inspired icing on that piece of FUBAR cake.

It's not being reported, but you know it's still being done?

Ummm, sure.

Ok, not reported widely by the MSM but it's out there.

Sounds similar to the reconstruction effort.

And how does what Saddam did relate in any way, shape, or form to vigilante justice?

Same end result. People dead over differences in ideology.

LOL. You compare vigilante justice with Saddam yanking parliament members out of their seats and executing them, paint them with one broad brush and proclaim there is no difference?

Wow. Just...wow.

The problems were created by the US either. The problem is caused by those perceiving a power vacuum and trying to fill that vacuum, or the fundy groups trying to impose their will on the majority of the population. Of course you have a severe dislike for fundies; well, apparently except for when they are Islamic fundies.

And why is there a perceived power vacuum? Hmmm? If you'd look a bit further than the end of your nose you'd realize how ignorant your statement there is.

It's not ignorance, it's reality, and part of it has to do with the reality of Arab culture. Of course, coming from you, a person who has his partisan blinders cinched so tightly he hasn't even seen the end of his nose in years, it's no surprise you'd miss that reality.

Me? Partisan? HA! And of what reality do you speak? You're delusional. Hell, you even avoided the question completely!

Here, I'll ask again:

And why is there a perceived power vacuum?[/quote]
There is a perceived vacuum because the government is in transition from a totalitarian system to a democratic one.

Are you telling me you can't figure that out for youself?

And yes, you're one of the worst partisans in this place. Practically every thread you trot out bashes Bush and then you actually have the gall to turn around and finger others as trolls, when the majority of your posts are one big trollfest. Not only are you a blatant partisan, you're a hypocrite to boot.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur
Ok, not reported widely by the MSM but it's out there.

Sounds similar to the reconstruction effort.

The one that's been halted?

Money runs out on U.S. projects in Iraq
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=52&threadid=1684521&enterthread=y

Me? Partisan? HA! And of what reality do you speak? You're delusional. Hell, you even avoided the question completely!

Here, I'll ask again:

And why is there a perceived power vacuum?

There is a perceived vacuum because the government is in transition from a totalitarian system to a democratic one.

Are you telling me you can't figure that out for youself?

Again, your short-sightedness is glaringly evident. You see, this "transition" from a totalitarian to a democratic government has been at the end of a rifle. A process that should have evolved from within was put on a PNAC-accelerated timeline. That rush of wind has a vacuum following it. And the scent in that air smells of theocracy with a Talibanesque hint.

And yes, you're one of the worst partisans in this place. Practically every thread you trot out bashes Bush and then you actually have the gall to turn around and finger others as trolls, when the majority of your posts are one big trollfest. Not only are you a blatant partisan, you're a hypocrite to boot.

:roll:

Blah blah blah...such poor logic. This is the equivalent of calling me a bigot as I'm intolerant of the intolerant. You see, you're so full of sh*t I can smell you from here. You started off claiming you're a liberal but there's not a liberal bone in your body (except a distaste for the uber-Christians). You defend and apologize for this administration in any way possible and under any circumstance. You've not leveled one bit of decent criticism for anything related to Iraq, massive spending, ill-advised tax cuts, propaganda disguised as news, NCLB, Medicare drug program, etc. And *I'm* a partisan? This administration is just one huge group of fvcked up ideologues and political cronies. It's an Ivy-League frat house that happens to be in control of the world's largest military and trillions of dollars.

The true conservatives in the GOP have been scared sh*tless after 4 1/2 years of party-line arm-twisting and threats. The Democratic Party is unwilling to stand up to the pro-corporate, pro-military DLC and focus on its roots.

This country doesn't need to be run by a single political party. Politicians have proven time and again they can't be trusted, esp. when they control all aspects of a government. They turn the Treasury into their petty cash fund and turn the military into a manifestation of their huge egos and tiny dicks.

Me? Partisan?



pfffft.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur
Ok, not reported widely by the MSM but it's out there.

Sounds similar to the reconstruction effort.

The one that's been halted?

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=52&threadid=1684521&enterthread=y

Me? Partisan? HA! And of what reality do you speak? You're delusional. Hell, you even avoided the question completely!

Here, I'll ask again:

And why is there a perceived power vacuum?

There is a perceived vacuum because the government is in transition from a totalitarian system to a democratic one.

Are you telling me you can't figure that out for youself?

Again, your short-sightedness is glaringly evident. You see, this "transition" from a totalitarian to a democratic government has been at the end of a rifle. A process that should have evolved from within was put on a PNAC-accelerated timeline. That rush of wind has a vacuum following it. And the scent in that air smells of theocracy with a Talibanesque hint.

At the end of a rifle? Really?

I don't recall any of the current politicians in Iraq being forced into their positions by a gun barrel. I don't recall those voting being marched to the polls under the threat of death. In fact, it was quite the opposite - They went to the polls despite the threat of death from the terrorists.

Damn, that kind of blows a big hole in your theory. Maybe that's where that rush of wind you feel is coming from?

And yes, you're one of the worst partisans in this place. Practically every thread you trot out bashes Bush and then you actually have the gall to turn around and finger others as trolls, when the majority of your posts are one big trollfest. Not only are you a blatant partisan, you're a hypocrite to boot.

:roll:

Blah blah blah...such poor logic. This is the equivalent of calling me a bigot as I'm intolerant of the intolerant. You see, you're so full of sh*t I can smell you from here. You started off claiming you're a liberal but there's not a liberal bone in your body (except a distaste for the uber-Christians). You defend and apologize for this administration in any way possible and under any circumstance. You've not leveled one bit of decent criticism for anything related to Iraq, massive spending, ill-advised tax cuts, propaganda disguised as news, NCLB, Medicare drug program, etc. And *I'm* a partisan? This administration is just one huge group of fvcked up ideologues and political cronies. It's an Ivy-League frat house that happens to be in control of the world's largest military and trillions of dollars.

The true conservatives in the GOP have been scared sh*tless after 4 1/2 years of party-line arm-twisting and threats. The Democratic Party is unwilling to stand up to the pro-corporate, pro-military DLC and focus on its roots.

This country doesn't need to be run by a single political party. Politicians have proven time and again they can't be trusted, esp. when they control all aspects of a government. They turn the Treasury into their petty cash fund and turn the military into a manifestation of their huge egos and tiny dicks.

Me? Partisan?

pfffft.[/quote]
Yes, you...partisan. Thanks for clearly proving it once again with your little diatribe too.

 

[conjur]

heh heh. Shoved your BS in your face and you dismiss it by running away. Love it.

buh-bye, Brave Sir Chicken

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur
heh heh. Shoved your BS in your face and you dismiss it by running away. Love it.

buh-bye, Brave Sir Chicken

You can't respond to my post so you go delusional once again?

Well that's no surprise.

 

[mikeford]

Nobody likes the war, but we are there, propose an alternative instead of whining. If we pull out, really fail for any reason in Iraq, figure on the next 40 years of foreign policy being fubar, and the immediate very great chance the whole middle east will end up in a "real" war with nukes and a worldwide depression.

What is absolutely shamefull is that some people see national tragedy not in terms of how we can help people or resolve the situation, but as political opportunity without regard for the damage it does.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: conjur
What's positive about this invasion of Iraq? Name one thing? And no talking points allowed. Think for yourself for once.

And, btw, I'm a realist and a pragmatist, not some ideologue.

:laugh: Yeah, you parrot left wing talking points, link to kos, mediamatters, etc yet you aren't an ideologue :laugh:

I parrot absolutely zero. I link to kos when it's something that's verifiable. Mediamatters? WTF? They point out the hypocrisy of the right. Nothing wrong with that (well, unless you're a blind RW partisan)

I supported the removal of Saddam YEARS ago - long before Bush 43 was the President.
You see, I think for myself all the time and don't rely on the daily dish of talking points. What is interesting though is that you seem to love parroting talking points - yet you are trying to tell others to not? :laugh: I think there is a word for that. Oh yeah, it's HYPOCRIT.

More BS having nothing to do with the questions asked.

If you really were a realist you would be able to name some positive things that have happened int he world since(and potentially because) of our actions in Iraq. But alas you are a negativist which has blinded you from reality.

And, yet, again, the parrot managed to avoid all substance by avoiding the questions. Let's repeat them for the parrot:

What's positive about this invasion of Iraq? Name one thing? And no talking points allowed. Think for yourself for once.

:laugh: Not an ideologue and leftist parrot? :laugh:
you are a walking leftist parrot - everyone here knows it, so don't even try to continue with that lie.
Yes it does have to do with it. Because I don't need talking points to support our mission in Iraq - I supported the removal of Saddam LONG ago.

So no, I did not aviod anything. I answered your challenge -but somehow you missed the fact that SADDAM being gone is a positive. Oh wait, that's right, you probably don't see that as positive.

Now again, if you were a realist, you would be able to name some positive things that have happened int he world since(and potentially because) of our actions in Iraq.

dance, divert, ignore whatever you want though - your actions are quite telling.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

this war was brilliantly planned out politically i must say. i mean how can you defend the claim that Iraq isn't better off without Saddam? it's absolutely brilliant, because nobody can say that Iraq is better off with Saddam because that has all sorts of implications.

saddam being gone is perhaps one of the few positives to come out of this war thus far. the negatives that we have now are FAR worse than positives at this point, I hope things will balance out in time but as of right now things are not looking good. 3 years and we have yet to make any significant progress in terms of security, Iraq is just as deadly and unsafe as it was when we first got there. this war was incompetently thought out, and as a result we are paying the price. we are stuck now in Iraq for god knows how many years, when we could have been using our armed forces and MONEY elsewhere to help fight this war on terror. so of course nobody is saying saddam is a good guy, it's just that there are bigger fish to fry if we want to put a stop to terrorism.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: arsbanned
How about before they run out of American troops?

Still stuck on stupid, eh Dan?

I must be to participate in a forum with you around. 😛

 

[Starbuck1975]

This isn't all that shocking...the LAPD is infiltrated by former gang members, many of whom have allegiances with the very people they are supposed to be protecting society from.

You cannot group all the insurgents in Iraq under the blanket category of terrorist...Iraq consists of numerous factions with various loyalties, and unfortunately all of them have a vested interest in ridding Iraq of foreign occupation.

Look at any number of third world governments...hell, South America is a breeding ground for government corruption, largely due to failed American foreign policy intervention in the region, followed by a cut and run.

I am starting to think that maybe these people deserved Saddam.

 

[CanOWorms]

Terrorists infiltrated the US military as well. A soldier was convicted for aiding al-Qaeda.

Terrorists have also infiltrated the US government. They are called Democrats and Republicans.

 

[arsbanned]

Ooooh now THERE'S the voice of reason....

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Terrorists infiltrated the US military as well. A soldier was convicted for aiding al-Qaeda.

Terrorists have also infiltrated the US government. They are called Democrats and Republicans.

lol nice...

Seriously though, how much longer do you think the world will let these people in the Middle East hijack planes and strap bombs to themselves? Eventually the ish is really going to hit the fan for the Middle Eastern countries and it will amke our invasion of Iraq & Affy look like a summer camp getaway.