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Iraqi police go on killing spree.

tomywishbone

Golden Member
I'm sure you can easily guess where this took place. That's right; the center of democracy & freedom in the Middle East... Iraq.

(link 2 post below) Thank you D.



Officials: Policemen go on killing spree By SINAN SALAHEDDIN, Associated Press Writer, 36 minutes ago, Wednseday 3/28/07.

BAGHDAD - Security and police officials said off-duty Shiite policemen enraged by massive bombings in the northern town of Tal Afar went on a revenge killing spree there Wednesday, gunning down an unspecified number of Sunni residents.

They said the policemen began roaming the town's Sunni neighborhoods early in the morning, shooting at Sunni residents and homes.

Dozens of Sunnis were killed or wounded, they said, but they had no precise figures. The shooting continued for more than two hours, the officials said.

Army troops later moved into the Sunni areas to stop the violence, said the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

Two truck bombs hit markets in Tal Afar Tuesday, killing at least 63 people
 
another one from The Guardian UK

"I wish you can come and see all the bodies. They are lying in the grounds. We don't have enough space in the hospital. All of the victims were shot in the head," a doctor at Tal Afar's main hospital told the Reuters news agency.

people we've trained and armed are now taking part in this civil war.

really... no good can come of us being there. as much as i wish there was some good solution for all of this so that the US can come out of this looking like we've done something responsible to help this situation... i just don't think that's going to happen.
 
The only rationale for our continued deployment in Iraq was to provide a period of strong security in the hope that religious and ethnic hatred could be kept under control long enough for all parties to peacefully adjust to co-existence.
That hope and time now now passed.
 
Originally posted by: techs
The only rationale for our continued deployment in Iraq was to provide a period of strong security in the hope that religious and ethnic hatred could be kept under control long enough for all parties to peacefully adjust to co-existence.
That hope and time now now passed.

No its not.

If we leave this will be common place.

But I forget, the loser left always runs when it gets tough
 
Originally posted by: techs
The only rationale for our continued deployment in Iraq was to provide a period of strong security in the hope that religious and ethnic hatred could be kept under control long enough for all parties to peacefully adjust to co-existence.
That hope and time now now passed.
Despite this story most people seem to think that things in Iraq are getting better since the surge started.
link
Speaking of the surge yesterday McCain said it "is working far better than even the most optimistic supporter had predicted. Progress is tangible in many key areas despite the fact that only 40 percent of the planned forces are in Iraq,"
and
"What we cannot do, and for the sake of America's vital national security interests, we must not do, is give up just at the moment we are starting to turn things around in Iraq,"
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: techs
The only rationale for our continued deployment in Iraq was to provide a period of strong security in the hope that religious and ethnic hatred could be kept under control long enough for all parties to peacefully adjust to co-existence.
That hope and time now now passed.
Despite this story most people seem to think that things in Iraq are getting better since the surge started.
link
Speaking of the surge yesterday McCain said it "is working far better than even the most optimistic supporter had predicted. Progress is tangible in many key areas despite the fact that only 40 percent of the planned forces are in Iraq,"
and
"What we cannot do, and for the sake of America's vital national security interests, we must not do, is give up just at the moment we are starting to turn things around in Iraq,"
No we should give up 10 years and thousands of casualties later:disgust:

The hatred for each other is stronger than their fear of us or their desire to have a peaceful and united Iraq.
 
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Things are just devolving there... You have to wonder how this mess is ever going to get better.

when every iraqi is dead, and the only things left standing are the American military bases and our troops inside them.

or maybe we can hire the germans. they are handy at cleaning up a mess
 
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: techs
The only rationale for our continued deployment in Iraq was to provide a period of strong security in the hope that religious and ethnic hatred could be kept under control long enough for all parties to peacefully adjust to co-existence.
That hope and time now now passed.
Despite this story most people seem to think that things in Iraq are getting better since the surge started.
link
Speaking of the surge yesterday McCain said it "is working far better than even the most optimistic supporter had predicted. Progress is tangible in many key areas despite the fact that only 40 percent of the planned forces are in Iraq,"
and
"What we cannot do, and for the sake of America's vital national security interests, we must not do, is give up just at the moment we are starting to turn things around in Iraq,"

BULLSH*T!!!! Your link only says John McCain says the surge is working. No one else. No facts to back it either.
 
When 94% of the Sunni population thinks American forces are fair game (according to the major ABC/USA Today survey), then this surge is nothing more than gimmick. The US has proven that it cannot contain the Sunni militants, yet it is stopping the Shiites from protecting their own homes. This was bound to happen.

When there is so much anger and hatred on all sides, the best thing to do now is to let it play itself out. Bush made the powerful mistake of opening Pandora's box, now he (and the rest of the world for not stopping him) should pay the ultimate price for his stupid actions. There is no going back now, let them kill each other until they can't kill no more.
 
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: techs
The only rationale for our continued deployment in Iraq was to provide a period of strong security in the hope that religious and ethnic hatred could be kept under control long enough for all parties to peacefully adjust to co-existence.
That hope and time now now passed.

No its not.

If we leave this will be common place.

But I forget, the loser left always runs when it gets tough

Quitters Never Win, Winners Never Quit, But Those Who Never Win AND Never Quit Are Idiots!
 
First let me make a few surface points.

(1) You have a case where Shiite police go into Sunni neighborhoods and just start killing civilian Sunni residents. And the force called into to stop the ethnic cleansing is the Iraqi army. The point being, the Iraqi people flat out don't trust the police which used to be Saddam secret police. But they do have some lingering trust in the Iraqi army. And when the GWB surge plan is based around the Iraqi police, you get a clue on how far out of touch with Iraqi reality our leaders in America are.

(2) Posts on P&N seem to be turning downright personally nasty lately. Insults hurled back and forth. Polished little spin lines that seek to simplify complex issues down to a single sentence. Two worth citing are "But I forget, the loser left always runs when it gets tough." and contrasted with "Quitters never win, Winners never Quit, But those that never win and never quit are idiots." After pointing out that the saner left avoids getting involved in no win situations that the always seem to suck in the over optimistic right and that of the two statements, the latter one seems most correct. But even then, both statements may shed some heat---but no light. Face the facts, all of America and all the world is stuck with a big mess. AND THE ONLY QUESTIONS NOW WORTH ASKING ARE (1) WHAT DO WE DO NOW? (2) PUT ALL OPTIONS ON THE TABLE AND EVALUATE THE LONG TERM PROBABLE CONSEQUENCES OF THEM. WHAT OUTCOMES ARE LEAST REPUGNANT?

(3) It always seem to come as a huge shock to some that many on this forum are underwhelmed when various authority figures like McCain, Bill Kristol, and their ilk are dredged up. But the rhetoric used now and the rhetoric used in Vietnam sound exactly the same---the buzz words are changed slightly---gone is I see light at the end of the tunnel, but the same failed logic is used.

Having made these points, I put the following facts on the table. If Iraq is to be stabilized, the insurgency and sectarian violence must be stamped out. And meanwhile the Iraqi economy must be reestablished and the infrastructure rebuilt.
Since its now clear the USA cannot pony up the troops needed and has wasted much of the money its spent, we need to get international help in fast. And need to concentrate on Iraq and not dig our holes deeper by picking a fight with other mid-eastern countries.

I put it to this forum that this is now the only way to look at the Iraqi question with the alternative being cut and run. But if cut and run is the road taken, we all better look long and hard at the downside risks of a world war and a world wide depression that are almost certain to follow.
 
Infrastructure. Infrastructure. Infrastructure. The only way it's going to get better anytime soon is to give most every Iraqi reliable power, clean water, quality transportation, entertainment, etc. Give as many of them as possible happy lives, and much of the killing will stop, we can reduce our numbers to a minimum, and we might actually be seen in a positive light. Happy people are much less likely to go on murderous rampages, ethnic or otherwise. This is probably a very expensive and risky solution, but I personally think it qualifies as the "least repugnant" option. Until then, focus forces on construction sites and educational sites like universities, to protect the people who actually know how or are learning how to build things other than bombs.

As for the Iraqi police, that's a difficult issue. It is absolutely critical to society that it's people can trust the police. They need to be heavily screened and monitored for awhile, and punishments for abusing their power should be harsh.
 
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: techs
The only rationale for our continued deployment in Iraq was to provide a period of strong security in the hope that religious and ethnic hatred could be kept under control long enough for all parties to peacefully adjust to co-existence.
That hope and time now now passed.

No its not.

If we leave this will be common place.

But I forget, the loser left always runs when it gets tough

Yea, good thing the loser left ran away during WWI and WWII. Whew!
 
Originally posted by: glutenberg
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: techs
The only rationale for our continued deployment in Iraq was to provide a period of strong security in the hope that religious and ethnic hatred could be kept under control long enough for all parties to peacefully adjust to co-existence.
That hope and time now now passed.

No its not.

If we leave this will be common place.

But I forget, the loser left always runs when it gets tough

Yea, good thing the loser left ran away during WWI and WWII. Whew!

LMAO :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: glutenberg
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: techs
The only rationale for our continued deployment in Iraq was to provide a period of strong security in the hope that religious and ethnic hatred could be kept under control long enough for all parties to peacefully adjust to co-existence.
That hope and time now now passed.

No its not.

If we leave this will be common place.

But I forget, the loser left always runs when it gets tough

Yea, good thing the loser left ran away during WWI and WWII. Whew!


🙂 It's so simply and it's so true; when you're beaten, you're beaten.

Edit: It ain't that bad to lose... it's just bad to keep losing.
 
Update:

It appears that the original numbers were too low. Most unpleasant.


Police gun down dozens over Iraq blasts By SINAN SALAHEDDIN, Associated Press Writer 19 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - Shiite militants and police enraged by massive truck bombings in Tal Afar went on a revenge spree against Sunni residents in the northwestern town Wednesday, killing as many as 60 people, officials said.

The gunmen roamed Sunni neighborhoods in the city through the night, shooting at residents and homes, according to police and a local Sunni politician.

Witnesses said relatives of the Shiite victims in the truck bombings broke into the Sunni homes and killed the men inside or dragged them out and shot them in the streets.

Ali al-Talafari, a Sunni member of the local Turkomen Front Party, said the Iraqi army had arrested 18 policemen accused of being involved after they were identified by the Sunni families targeted. But he said the attackers included Shiite militiamen.

He said more than 60 Sunnis had been killed, but a senior hospital official in Tal Afar put the death toll at 45, with four wounded.

The hospital official, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to security concerns, said the victims were men between the ages of 15 and 60, and they were killed with a shot to the back of the head.

Police said earlier dozens of Sunnis were killed or wounded, but they had no precise figures, and communications problems made it difficult to reach them for an update.

Army troops later moved into the Sunni areas to stop the violence and a curfew was slapped on the entire town, according to Wathiq al-Hamdani, the provincial police chief and his head of operations, Brig. Abdul-Karim al-Jibouri.

"The situation is under control now," said al-Hamdani. "The local Tal Afar police have been confined to their bases and policemen from Mosul are moving there to replace them."

Tal Afar, located 260 miles northwest of Baghdad, is in the province of Ninevah, of which Mosul is the capital. It is a mainly Turkomen city with some 60 percent of its residents adhering to Shiite Islam and the rest mostly Sunnis.

The violence came a day after two truck bombs shattered markets in the city, killing at least 63 people and wounding dozens in the second assault in four days. After Tuesday's bombings, suspected Sunni insurgents tried to ambush ambulances carrying the injured out of the northwestern city but were driven off by police gunfire, Iraqi authorities said.

The carnage was the worst bloodshed in a surge of violence across Iraq as militants on both sides of the sectarian divide apparently have fled to other parts of the country to avoid a U.S.-Iraqi security crackdown, raising tensions outside the capital.

The city was an insurgent stronghold until an offensive by U.S. and Iraqi troops in September 2005, when rebel fighters fled into the countryside without a battle. Last March, President Bush cited the operation as an example that gave him "confidence in our strategy."

But even though U.S. and Iraqi forces put up sand barriers around Tal Afar to limit access, the city has suffered frequent insurgent attacks.

The hard-line Sunni Association of Muslim Scholars said 50 people were killed in the rampage and said it was evidence "of the clear plot and coordination between the militias and the governmental forces of interior and defense."

Meanwhile, suicide bombers detonated explosives on trucks carrying highly toxic chlorine in Fallujah, wounding about 15 U.S. and Iraqi security forces, the American military said. The military said the attackers were blocked by Iraqi army soldiers and police from setting off the bombs at the Fallujah government center.

The chlorine gas attack was the eighth launched since Jan. 28, when a suicide bomber driving a dump truck filled with explosives and a chlorine tank struck a quick-reaction force and Iraqi police in Ramadi, killing 16 people.

A parked car bomb struck a market in the predominantly Shiite city of Mahaweel, 35 miles south of Baghdad, killing at least four people and wounding 16.

Elsewhere, hundreds of Iraqis detained in the U.S.-led security crackdown in Baghdad are being held in two detention centers designed to hold at most a few dozen people, The New York Times reported Wednesday, citing an Iraqi monitoring group.

The report said 705 people were packed into an area built for 75 at one of the detention centers, in the town of Mahmudiya, south of Baghdad. The other center, on Muthana Air Base, held 272 people, including two women and four boys, in a space designed to hold about 50.

Officials from the monitoring group said they did not know the sectarian composition of the detainee populations.


end------
 
It makes you wonder. Maybe if we had left already all the Sunni's would have been dead by now. Leaving by the end of next year is looking better all the time. Part of me wants to say give the surge a chance say maybe 6-12 months. Then part of me says lets just get our right now.

I cant see letting good Americans Die for people in the middle east who basically hate our guts. There has to be an end to this sooner or later. I just dont see why we started this war. We had Sadam in a little box. All we had to do is quit trusting the UN and cancel the food for oil program. Instead we played this game of a nicer, gentler, war. Now we have to play games with Iran too? When will it end?

I dont see how any group of people can be full of so much hate for so long. Everything Islamic boils down to murder and power. None of it really has to do with religion.

Murder and Power, Murder and Power, Murder and Power. . . . .

I wonder what would happen if the president came out tomorrow and just gave the order to start pulling out. Just like the russians; pack your stuff on the truck and start moving out.
 
"I cant see letting good Americans Die for people in the middle east who basically hate our guts. There has to be an end to this sooner or later. I just dont see why we started this war. We had Sadam in a little box. All we had to do is quit trusting the UN and cancel the food for oil program. Instead we played this game of a nicer, gentler, war. Now we have to play games with Iran too? When will it end? "

Daddy-o, is it Stalingrad or is it Bagdad? Boy, they both lost, didn't they.


Edit & review: I'm not sure what I'm saying here.
 
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