Iraqi farmer: "I didn't even trust my children"

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio
I'll just look into their eyes.

That will have to do for now.

Oh wonderful that you found that picture...

Here...

Check the pictures on the right, along with the article...

Your argurment sucks. Get off it, and you anti war warriors are running out of things to say, and only making it look better for Bush.



Thanks!

Your pictures are 6 days older then mine. Looks like you're the one running out of things to say. I'm just getting started. You're only making it look worse for yourself.

Thanks for making that so easy.

Good try Flavio,

I think this mans thoughts also prove my point...

"I'm 49, but I never lived a single day. Only now will I start living," Yussuf Abed Kazim, a mosque preacher, said as he whacked away, knocking tile and concrete off the pedestal. "That Saddam Hussein is a murderer and a criminal."

I would consider what happened in Baghdad on NATIONAL TV more than enough for you anti war people to shut up...

I guess i was wrong..

You just cant seem to handle how well the war is going. Weapons will surface, and the Iraqi people are free...

I would consider what IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW as more than enough for you i-love-war people to shut up.

You just can't seem to handle how many Iraqis we've killed or how pissed they are.

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio
I'll just look into their eyes.

That will have to do for now.

Oh wonderful that you found that picture...

Here...

Check the pictures on the right, along with the article...

Your argurment sucks. Get off it, and you anti war warriors are running out of things to say, and only making it look better for Bush.



Thanks!

Your pictures are 6 days older then mine. Looks like you're the one running out of things to say. I'm just getting started. You're only making it look worse for yourself.

Thanks for making that so easy.

Good try Flavio,

I think this mans thoughts also prove my point...

"I'm 49, but I never lived a single day. Only now will I start living," Yussuf Abed Kazim, a mosque preacher, said as he whacked away, knocking tile and concrete off the pedestal. "That Saddam Hussein is a murderer and a criminal."

I would consider what happened in Baghdad on NATIONAL TV more than enough for you anti war people to shut up...

I guess i was wrong..

You just cant seem to handle how well the war is going. Weapons will surface, and the Iraqi people are free...

I would consider what IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW as more than enough for you i-love-war people to shut up.

You just can't seem to handle how many Iraqis we've killed or how pissed they are.

Alright consider this my last post with you.

Do you realize how many Sadaam killed? DO you realize how many lives were saved from us invading? Do you realize how happy the people of Iraq are?

And no i "dont love war" you idiot. No one should.. But considering who it was against it needed to be done.

Get off your we killed 100's of Iraqis, its WAR people die. They are now free..

Anyway im done bickering with you, you cannot except facts.

Good day.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio
I'll just look into their eyes.

That will have to do for now.

Oh wonderful that you found that picture...

Here...

Check the pictures on the right, along with the article...

Your argurment sucks. Get off it, and you anti war warriors are running out of things to say, and only making it look better for Bush.



Thanks!

Your pictures are 6 days older then mine. Looks like you're the one running out of things to say. I'm just getting started. You're only making it look worse for yourself.

Thanks for making that so easy.

Good try Flavio,

I think this mans thoughts also prove my point...

"I'm 49, but I never lived a single day. Only now will I start living," Yussuf Abed Kazim, a mosque preacher, said as he whacked away, knocking tile and concrete off the pedestal. "That Saddam Hussein is a murderer and a criminal."

I would consider what happened in Baghdad on NATIONAL TV more than enough for you anti war people to shut up...

I guess i was wrong..

You just cant seem to handle how well the war is going. Weapons will surface, and the Iraqi people are free...

I would consider what IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW as more than enough for you i-love-war people to shut up.

You just can't seem to handle how many Iraqis we've killed or how pissed they are.

Alright consider this my last post with you.

Do you realize how many Sadaam killed? DO you realize how many lives were saved from us invading? Do you realize how happy the people of Iraq are?

And no i "dont love war" you idiot. No one should.. But considering who it was against it needed to be done.

Get off your we killed 100's of Iraqis, its WAR people die. They are now free..

Anyway im done bickering with you, you cannot except facts.

Good day.

100's of Iraqis? You think that's all we killed? Wow, you really are clueless huh?

It's pretty obvious that it would help you sleep at night to continue to believe that all the Iraqis are happy about this. You'll even ignore news stories and pictures from today so that you can keep living in your fantasies.

100's of Iraqis dead. Geesh.

 

[Judgement]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement
I won't try to assume whether or not they would rather suffer or have a puppet government. It seems you are already assuming the government that will be instituted will be a puppet US government though.

Well, the Iraqis sure are thinking that might be the case.

Hundreds of protesters blocked U.S. Marines from entering Kut's city hall Tuesday to meet a radical anti-American Shiite cleric who has declared himself in control here, military officials said.

About 20 Marines from Task Force Tarawa decided against trying to enter the building after being confronted by 1,200 protesters, said Lt. Col. Jean Malone, deputy operations officer for the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade.

The protesters were shouting "No, No Chalabi!" -- referring to Ahmed Chalabi, the leader of the Pentagon-backed Iraqi National Congress opposition group.

Text

You're assuming the aforementioned protesters share the political views of the entire country. The problem is Iraq has multiple factions (Kurds, Shi'ites etc..). I don't think there is any person that can rule over all of Iraq and be approved by everyone. Any person the U.S. considers a valid candidate for an Iraqi leader is going to have the opposing faction calling him a U.S. puppet because its not the first choice on their list. None of the factions are going to be able to have the first choice on their list as the Iraqi leader because the other factions will throw a fit. U.S. has a rough job ahead of them trying to find a widely accepted yet neutrally stanced person; they can't just appease the majority and hang the minorities out to dry. Even if/when they do find a competent person who is widely accepted, the media will show people protesting it. Thats just the way things are.

We could of course just leave right now and completely stay out of their way, but for some reason I think that would only lead to a civil war as every faction tries to gain power over the country. I find it hard to believe that Iraq, as a new nation, could peacefully put together its own government.... at least the first government formed after Saddam's fall.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Judgement

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement
I won't try to assume whether or not they would rather suffer or have a puppet government. It seems you are already assuming the government that will be instituted will be a puppet US government though.

Well, the Iraqis sure are thinking that might be the case.

Hundreds of protesters blocked U.S. Marines from entering Kut's city hall Tuesday to meet a radical anti-American Shiite cleric who has declared himself in control here, military officials said.

About 20 Marines from Task Force Tarawa decided against trying to enter the building after being confronted by 1,200 protesters, said Lt. Col. Jean Malone, deputy operations officer for the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Brigade.

The protesters were shouting "No, No Chalabi!" -- referring to Ahmed Chalabi, the leader of the Pentagon-backed Iraqi National Congress opposition group.

Text

You're assuming the aforementioned protesters share the political views of the entire country. The problem is Iraq has multiple factions (Kurds, Shi'ites etc..). I don't think there is any person that can rule over all of Iraq and be approved by everyone. Any person the U.S. considers a valid candidate for an Iraqi leader is going to have the opposing faction calling him a U.S. puppet because its not the first choice on their list. None of the factions are going to be able to have the first choice on their list as the Iraqi leader because the other factions will throw a fit. U.S. has a rough job ahead of them trying to find a widely accepted yet neutrally stanced person; they can't just appease the majority and hang the minorities out to dry. Even if/when they do find a competent person who is widely accepted, the media will show people protesting it. Thats just the way things are.

We could of course just leave right now and completely stay out of their way, but for some reason I think that would only lead to a civil war as every faction tries to gain power over the country. I find it hard to believe that Iraq, as a new nation, could peacefully put together its own government.... at least the first government formed after Saddam's fall.

Oh, your stance completely lets the US off the hook huh? If whatever leader we put there will be labeled a puppet then nobody should even worry about it right?

So how do you go about finding a real puppet ruler then?

 

[Judgement]

100's of Iraqis? You think that's all we killed? Wow, you really are clueless huh?

As far as I knew there were no real numbers released yet, but I guarantee you that the lives lost is nothing in comparison to the number of lives that would have been lost if Saddam was allowed to keep control of Iraq. Kind of like argument made Here

 

[Corn]

I think they would prefer their dictator over a US puppet government.

I'm sure you do as that fits your narrowminded sensibilities: It is far perferable to be terrorized and opressed than to have to suffer the horror of not being terrorized and opressed.

Of course the words that flow from the lips of your average liberal (such as flavio in this instance) reveal their outright racist contempt for the poor suffering darkies living in the third world: You see them on the whole as brutal savages who are incapable of acknowledging or embracing the concepts of humanity and freedom.


People hold up signs saying the same things here; at least here, and likewise now in Iraq, you won't be jailed or executed for holding up those signs. Of course flavio believes that the average Iraqi would rather the otherwise be true.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Judgement

100's of Iraqis? You think that's all we killed? Wow, you really are clueless huh?

As far as I knew there were no real numbers released yet, but I guarantee you that the lives lost is nothing in comparison to the number of lives that would have been lost if Saddam was allowed to keep control of Iraq. Kind of like argument made Here

I don't see how you can "guarantee" that more people would have died without us dropping bombs on them and mowing down their soldiers than without it. The point is though that minimalizing it to ridiculous "100's of Iraqis" is pure fantasy.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement

100's of Iraqis? You think that's all we killed? Wow, you really are clueless huh?

As far as I knew there were no real numbers released yet, but I guarantee you that the lives lost is nothing in comparison to the number of lives that would have been lost if Saddam was allowed to keep control of Iraq. Kind of like argument made Here

I don't see how you can "guarantee" that more people would have died without us dropping bombs on them and mowing down their soldiers than without it. The point is though that minimalizing it to ridiculous "100's of Iraqis" is pure fantasy.

Easy enough, UN sanctions have killed between 1-1.5 million people in Iraq.

Use the low estimate of 1 million, thats about 7,000 a month, how many civilians killed by our bombs? They claim @ 1,300, of course some of those were killed by Saddam's forces, probably more than half.

If we had done nothing 7,000 civilians would have died in the same time frame, conservatively.

 

[Judgement]

Oh, your stance completely lets the US off the hook huh? If whatever leader we put there will be labeled a puppet then nobody should even worry about it right?

Thats definately not what I was trying to say. My point is that its easy to criticize how the U.S. is handling the situation, and wrong to do so. No matter what the US does, someone is going to point a finger, as people have already started to before any formal actions have been taken, and criticize what the U.S. did. They can only do so much to try and please everyone before they reach their limits; not everyone is going to be regardless of the outcome. There exists no possible outcome where everyone is going to be happy.

The Iraqi people have feelings of liberty flowing through them right now that, to a certain extent, can be compared to that of the U.S. when it freed itself from Britain. Each person in Iraq seems to be so excited with their new freedom that they are becoming unwavering and unwilling to compromise about the government to be formed. Adding to the problem is, unlike the founders of the U.S. whom shared many opinions and were educated in such things, the people of Iraq have a much larger variety of ideals which in turn is going to result in many more opposing opinions then the U.S. had encountered when forming its government. I don't see how the U.S. can come out looking anything but bad after this... there are going to be some unhappy people who didn't get their way and the no matter what route the U.S. takes thats not going to change.

What the real topic should be about isn't any of this though, but about how lucky the Iraqi citizens are to even be in a position to contribute to these decisions. People who are truly against the war will always find something to criticize, and it just becomes a bigger stretch each time. The people who were busy trying to deny the rights of the Iraqi people from being able to contribute influence to a possible future government are now the ones criticizing the U.S.'s POSSIBLE influence on the new government. Give me a break, its just one thing after another...

 

[Judgement]

Easy enough, UN sanctions have killed between 1-1.5 million people in Iraq. Use the low estimate of 1 million, thats about 7,000 a month, how many civilians killed by our bombs? They claim @ 1,300, of course some of those were killed by Saddam's forces, probably more than half. If we had done nothing 7,000 civilians would have died in the same time frame, conservatively.

Oh no! You gave them something to base their argument on!

Now we have to hear about how the UN's at fault for the Iraqi deaths. Since we all know it was not Saddam's misalocation of resources received from the UN oil for food program that caused the deaths, it was the sanctions!

I wonder how many people died in Iraq as a result of each of the palaces Saddam built for himself... I bet that figure alone easily squashes the figures of civilians killed by U.S. bombs in Iraq.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement

100's of Iraqis? You think that's all we killed? Wow, you really are clueless huh?

As far as I knew there were no real numbers released yet, but I guarantee you that the lives lost is nothing in comparison to the number of lives that would have been lost if Saddam was allowed to keep control of Iraq. Kind of like argument made Here

I don't see how you can "guarantee" that more people would have died without us dropping bombs on them and mowing down their soldiers than without it. The point is though that minimalizing it to ridiculous "100's of Iraqis" is pure fantasy.

Easy enough, UN sanctions have killed between 1-1.5 million people in Iraq.

Use the low estimate of 1 million, thats about 7,000 a month, how many civilians killed by our bombs? They claim @ 1,300, of course some of those were killed by Saddam's forces, probably more than half.

If we had done nothing 7,000 civilians would have died in the same time frame, conservatively.

So you're saying that we lifted the sanctions while the war was on and those same 7000 didn't die? Only the 1,300 civilians? No Iraqi soldiers died either?

WOW!

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement

100's of Iraqis? You think that's all we killed? Wow, you really are clueless huh?

As far as I knew there were no real numbers released yet, but I guarantee you that the lives lost is nothing in comparison to the number of lives that would have been lost if Saddam was allowed to keep control of Iraq. Kind of like argument made Here

I don't see how you can "guarantee" that more people would have died without us dropping bombs on them and mowing down their soldiers than without it. The point is though that minimalizing it to ridiculous "100's of Iraqis" is pure fantasy.

Easy enough, UN sanctions have killed between 1-1.5 million people in Iraq.

Use the low estimate of 1 million, thats about 7,000 a month, how many civilians killed by our bombs? They claim @ 1,300, of course some of those were killed by Saddam's forces, probably more than half.

If we had done nothing 7,000 civilians would have died in the same time frame, conservatively.

So you're saying that we lifted the sanctions while the war was on and those same 7000 didn't die? Only the 1,300 civilians? No Iraqi soldiers died either?

WOW!

Do you realize how you just spun that around?

Thats why you are impossible to talk to.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: flavio

I think they would prefer their dictator over a US puppet government.

Odd...you despise the US administration for presuming to think for the Iraqis and yet here you are doing it yourself.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: flavio

I think they would prefer their dictator over a US puppet government.

Odd...you despise the US administration for presuming to think for the Iraqis and yet here you are doing it yourself.

I'm not making any decisions in their life or killing their people. I do however have different thoughts on the matter than the people on the board who think "Iraqis love the US".

 

[Judgement]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement

100's of Iraqis? You think that's all we killed? Wow, you really are clueless huh?

As far as I knew there were no real numbers released yet, but I guarantee you that the lives lost is nothing in comparison to the number of lives that would have been lost if Saddam was allowed to keep control of Iraq. Kind of like argument made Here

I don't see how you can "guarantee" that more people would have died without us dropping bombs on them and mowing down their soldiers than without it. The point is though that minimalizing it to ridiculous "100's of Iraqis" is pure fantasy.

Easy enough, UN sanctions have killed between 1-1.5 million people in Iraq.

Use the low estimate of 1 million, thats about 7,000 a month, how many civilians killed by our bombs? They claim @ 1,300, of course some of those were killed by Saddam's forces, probably more than half.

If we had done nothing 7,000 civilians would have died in the same time frame, conservatively.

So you're saying that we lifted the sanctions while the war was on and those same 7000 didn't die? Only the 1,300 civilians? No Iraqi soldiers died either?

WOW!

We are supposed to feel sorry for those who were the ones working to enforce Saddam's policies which resulted in the death of 7000 civilians a month? I don't like when people die, I wish no one had to... but I'm having a hard time symphathizing with them. Regardless lets disprove your point.

A few months from now, the number of civilians saved as a result of Saddam being out of power will easily surpass the number of Iraqi soldier deaths that occurred during the war. BTW, these soldiers put themselves at risk... they are not the same as civilian deaths. The U.S. put a lot of Effort into making sure Iraqi soldiers knew exactly how to surrender safely so their lives would not be put at risk.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Judgement


We are supposed to feel sorry for those who were the ones working to enforce Saddam's policies which resulted in the death of 7000 civilians a month?

You mean you don't feel sorry for the US and other countries that were against lifting sanctions even thought the only people the sanctions were hurting were civilians?

Regardless lets disprove your point.

A few months from now, the number of civilians saved as a result of Saddam being out of power will easily surpass the number of Iraqi soldier deaths that occurred during the war.

You have a funny idea of "proof". This seems more like conjecture to me.

BTW, these soldiers put themselves at risk... they are not the same as civilian deaths. The U.S. put a lot of Effort into making sure Iraqi soldiers knew exactly how to surrender safely so their lives would not be put at risk.

They were put at risk because we invaded their country. They wouldn't have been so much at risk had the US not been attacking.

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement


We are supposed to feel sorry for those who were the ones working to enforce Saddam's policies which resulted in the death of 7000 civilians a month?

You mean you don't feel sorry for the US and other countries that were against lifting sanctions even thought the only people the sanctions were hurting were civilians?

Regardless lets disprove your point.

A few months from now, the number of civilians saved as a result of Saddam being out of power will easily surpass the number of Iraqi soldier deaths that occurred during the war.

You have a funny idea of "proof". This seems more like conjecture to me.

BTW, these soldiers put themselves at risk... they are not the same as civilian deaths. The U.S. put a lot of Effort into making sure Iraqi soldiers knew exactly how to surrender safely so their lives would not be put at risk.

They were put at risk because we invaded their country. They wouldn't have been so much at risk had the US not been attacking.

Oh god you are upsetting... Do you realize t hat they would not have been at risk at all if Sadaam would have cooperated or even bettter never exisited?

You do not realize that. Ignorance is Bliss..



Your sweet dude..

:|

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement


We are supposed to feel sorry for those who were the ones working to enforce Saddam's policies which resulted in the death of 7000 civilians a month?

You mean you don't feel sorry for the US and other countries that were against lifting sanctions even thought the only people the sanctions were hurting were civilians?

Regardless lets disprove your point.

A few months from now, the number of civilians saved as a result of Saddam being out of power will easily surpass the number of Iraqi soldier deaths that occurred during the war.

You have a funny idea of "proof". This seems more like conjecture to me.

BTW, these soldiers put themselves at risk... they are not the same as civilian deaths. The U.S. put a lot of Effort into making sure Iraqi soldiers knew exactly how to surrender safely so their lives would not be put at risk.

They were put at risk because we invaded their country. They wouldn't have been so much at risk had the US not been attacking.

Oh god you are upsetting... Do you realize t hat they would not have been at risk at all if Sadaam would have cooperated or even bettter never exisited?

You do not realize that. Ignorance is Bliss..



Your sweet dude..

:|

I realize that. What about if we hadn't invaded? You do not realize that.....dude.

(...and it's "you're" not "your")

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement


We are supposed to feel sorry for those who were the ones working to enforce Saddam's policies which resulted in the death of 7000 civilians a month?

You mean you don't feel sorry for the US and other countries that were against lifting sanctions even thought the only people the sanctions were hurting were civilians?

Regardless lets disprove your point.

A few months from now, the number of civilians saved as a result of Saddam being out of power will easily surpass the number of Iraqi soldier deaths that occurred during the war.

You have a funny idea of "proof". This seems more like conjecture to me.

BTW, these soldiers put themselves at risk... they are not the same as civilian deaths. The U.S. put a lot of Effort into making sure Iraqi soldiers knew exactly how to surrender safely so their lives would not be put at risk.

They were put at risk because we invaded their country. They wouldn't have been so much at risk had the US not been attacking.

Oh god you are upsetting... Do you realize t hat they would not have been at risk at all if Sadaam would have cooperated or even bettter never exisited?

You do not realize that. Ignorance is Bliss..



Your sweet dude..

:|

I realize that. What about if we hadn't invaded? You do not realize that.....dude.

(...and it's "you're" not "your")

OH MY GOD!

If we would have not invaded more would have died from Sadaams regime, what the hell can you not understand about that?

Please enlighten me....


Sorry about the grammar, but please do not make yourself look even more childish by correcting me...

Goes to show you're losing.

 

[flavio]

OH MY GOD!

If we would have not invaded more would have died from Sadaams regime, what the hell can you not understand about that?

Go ahead and tell me how this would have happened. I'd like to hear the story.

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: flavio

OH MY GOD!

If we would have not invaded more would have died from Sadaams regime, what the hell can you not understand about that?

Go ahead and tell me how this would have happened. I'd like to hear the story.

WOW flavio..

Have you been blind to what that regime has done over its history?

Gassing his own people and what not?

Raping woman.

Killing children.

 

[rawoutput]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: Judgement


We are supposed to feel sorry for those who were the ones working to enforce Saddam's policies which resulted in the death of 7000 civilians a month?

You mean you don't feel sorry for the US and other countries that were against lifting sanctions even thought the only people the sanctions were hurting were civilians?

Regardless lets disprove your point.

A few months from now, the number of civilians saved as a result of Saddam being out of power will easily surpass the number of Iraqi soldier deaths that occurred during the war.

You have a funny idea of "proof". This seems more like conjecture to me.

BTW, these soldiers put themselves at risk... they are not the same as civilian deaths. The U.S. put a lot of Effort into making sure Iraqi soldiers knew exactly how to surrender safely so their lives would not be put at risk.

They were put at risk because we invaded their country. They wouldn't have been so much at risk had the US not been attacking.

Oh god you are upsetting... Do you realize t hat they would not have been at risk at all if Sadaam would have cooperated or even bettter never exisited?

You do not realize that. Ignorance is Bliss..



Your sweet dude..

:|

I realize that. What about if we hadn't invaded? You do not realize that.....dude.

(...and it's "you're" not "your")

Those sanctions weren't put into place because the UN felt like it. You're acting as if the US govt is just an imperialistic force bent on slaughtering Iraqi's and it's just ludicrous. If you honestly think that the Iraqi people would be better off from having Saddam as their leader (did they elect him?) then why don't you give a reason besides some protestors posters. Have you lived in Iraq? Any first hand experience to believe that the Iraqi's are better off with him?

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

OH MY GOD!

If we would have not invaded more would have died from Sadaams regime, what the hell can you not understand about that?

Go ahead and tell me how this would have happened. I'd like to hear the story.

WOW flavio..

Have you been blind to what that regime has done over its history?

Gassing his own people and what not?

Raping woman.

Killing children.

You seemed to have some facts to show that "If we would have not invaded more would have died from Sadaams regime". Did you mean in a similar time period? Out with the story.

 

[bjc112]

NOOOOO.

I meant in his years as Iraqs leader...

He was a brutal murderer, terrorist, and a joke..

He had to go. The iraqi people are free.